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Leaking flex tap connector
Hi All
I am fitting a new bathroom sink. I usually do this by fitting an isolation valve (one where you turn it on / off with a flat head screwdriver) between the incoming supply (terminated with a tap connector) and the flexible hose to the tap. I am having trouble with one that constantly leaks no matter what I do. The tap connector side is fine but the connection with the flexible hose leaks. I have so far tried the following 1. The tap and hose came with a filter type rubber washer so used that first 2. Tried replacing that washer with a normal flat rubber washer 3. Put PTFE tape on the thread and used the washer. All options still result in a leak. It looks like it is coming from the centre of the nut (as opposed to the thread) but can't be sure. Anyone have any ideas what could be wrong? Thanks Lee |
Leaking flex tap connector
I cannot quite picture your arrangement but if you are connecting your flexible tap connector directly on to the isolator valve then I am not surprised you are experiencing leakage problems. The isolator has connections that involve the use of an olive to provide the water tight seal the end of the thread has a chamfer on the inside to mate with an olive whilst the very end does not have a flat surface to mate with anything tending to be rather sharp too.
What I suspect you need is something like these: https://www.screwfix.com/p/tesla-bra...x-2-pack/2665r The plain end goes in your compression fitting on the isolator with an olive off course and your tap connector on the threaded end with the rubber washer you mentioned initially. A link to a photo of what you have got would help Richard |
Leaking flex tap connector
Sorry Richard should have mentioned that I file the ends of the isolation valve flat before fitting. Wonder if this one I didn't do it enough. Will take a look at your fitting sounds like it is just the job although I hate compression fittings as mine take several attempts before they are sealed :)
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Leaking flex tap connector
Lee Nowell wrote:
Sorry Richard should have mentioned that I file the ends of the isolation valve flat before fitting. You can get combined flexible tab connector with isolator ... |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 09/11/2019 15:37, Tricky Dicky wrote:
I cannot quite picture your arrangement but if you are connecting your flexible tap connector directly on to the isolator valve then I am not surprised you are experiencing leakage problems. The isolator has connections that involve the use of an olive to provide the water tight seal the end of the thread has a chamfer on the inside to mate with an olive whilst the very end does not have a flat surface to mate with anything tending to be rather sharp too. Conversely I always use a normal full bore service valve with the backnut and olive removed to mate with the flexi connector, and have never had a leak. So long as the end of the valve is smooth and continuous, then it should seal against the flat washer. A narrower cross section just means it will seal with less torque. I think in the OPs case I would replace the flexi. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
The tread is never part of the seal. The seal is the rubber washer (Probably damaged by overtightening) or an olive - but never the thread. |
Leaking flex tap connector
John wrote:
The tread is never part of the seal. The seal is the rubber washer (Probably damaged by overtightening) or an olive - but never the thread. Except, of course, when it is. Quite common with brass, 'iron' or mild steel fittings to similar metal fittings or pipes. -- Roger Hayter |
Leaking flex tap connector
(Roger Hayter) wrote in news:1ogug0g.qrw7lapelwpkN%
: John wrote: The tread is never part of the seal. The seal is the rubber washer (Probably damaged by overtightening) or an olive - but never the thread. Except, of course, when it is. Quite common with brass, 'iron' or mild steel fittings to similar metal fittings or pipes. Of course - but the use of PTFE tape on everything with a thread is not the solution to leaks. Most domestic modern applications - other than radiator tails will not use the fittings you suggest. |
Leaking flex tap connector
Of course - but the use of PTFE tape on everything with a thread is not the
solution to leaks. Most domestic modern applications - other than radiator tails will not use the fittings you sug Got to agree with you John, I have never found a compression fitting designed to seal with an olive make a satisfactory seal with anything else no matter how much PTFE tape you put on the thread. A tap connector with a fibre washer no chance, a rubber washer I will grant you a maybe. Richard |
Leaking flex tap connector
Trouble with flexible connectors is a number of things can go wrong other than the connection to a pipe fitting. As I think Brian has pointed out the rubber inner can fracture through age or overtightening and if this is an already used connector then it maybe a case of fixing it with a new one.
Richard |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 11/11/2019 12:00, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Of course - but the use of PTFE tape on everything with a thread is not the solution to leaks. Most domestic modern applications - other than radiator tails will not use the fittings you sug Got to agree with you John, I have never found a compression fitting designed to seal with an olive make a satisfactory seal with anything else no matter how much PTFE tape you put on the thread. Since compression fittings don't seal on the threads, that is not surprising. PTFE on threads can serve a purpose as a lubricant however - sometimes making it easier to correctly tighten a coupling in a restricted space or with a short spanner etc. However the issue I expect that was being take was with John's use of the rather absolute word "never", when there are a few examples of domestic plumbing fittings where you need to make a seal on the threads. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
The essentials of good fittings a Cleanliness, No burrs or scratches, no cuts in washers.I cant help but think that ptfe as a lubricant is a bit of a comfort blanket / snake oil. Why not a spray of oil? Remember to witdraw a pipe from the compression fitting by a few mm before tightening so that both ends of the olive see the force (ie. The pipe is not bottomed) In my house only the radiator tails need tape as they seal on the thread. I am just suggesting that people should consider - what is there to provide a clamping force and what is there to create a seal. Spending time trying to add stuff to the clamping medium when it is not the means of sealing is not a great idea. |
Leaking flex tap connector
I had assumed that the pipe had to be all the way in to exert the nut tightening force in the olive.
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Leaking flex tap connector
Lee Nowell wrote in
: I had assumed that the pipe had to be all the way in to exert the nut tightening force in the olive. By backing off slightly, the tightning force will be applied to both sides of the olive. If the pipe is pushed all the way in then there is no movement possible at the inner end so nearly all the final deformation will be at the outer end of the olive. Think it through for yourself and see if you agree. |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 09/11/2019 16:35, Lee Nowell wrote:
Sorry Richard should have mentioned that I file the ends of the isolation valve flat before fitting. Wonder if this one I didn't do it enough. Will take a look at your fitting sounds like it is just the job although I hate compression fittings as mine take several attempts before they are sealed :) Nobody seen these? Made for the job. https://www.toolstation.com/tap-tail-adaptors/p14081 -- Dave The Medway Handyman |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 11/11/2019 13:03, John wrote:
The essentials of good fittings a Cleanliness, No burrs or scratches, no cuts in washers.I cant help but think that ptfe as a lubricant is a bit of a comfort blanket / snake oil. I find it works well on the occasions that some lubrication is required, and also eliminates the loud squeak you can sometimes get on tightening compression fittings, which may be important in some circumstances. Why not a spray of oil? Less mess, no risk of contamination in the water, and less chance of making the spanner surfaces of the nuts slippery. Remember to witdraw a pipe from the compression fitting by a few mm before tightening so that both ends of the olive see the force (ie. The pipe is not bottomed) I can't see that will make any significant difference. The nut will tend to compress the back of the olive and also drive it into the gap between fitting and pipe which compresses the front of it. The forces on both sides will be largely similar and in balance. From a sealing point of view its the front face that's closing the gap between pipe and fitting that is doing the work anyway. In my house only the radiator tails need tape as they seal on the thread. I am just suggesting that people should consider - what is there to provide a clamping force and what is there to create a seal. Spending time trying to add stuff to the clamping medium when it is not the means of sealing is not a great idea. I am sure the OP, has got that message by now. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
I am sure the OP, has got that message by now. I also have a bee in my bonnet about exterior PIR lights that are aimed horizontally! |
Leaking flex tap connector
I can't see that will make any significant difference. The nut will tend to compress the back of the olive and also drive it into the gap between fitting and pipe which compresses the front of it. The forces on both sides will be largely similar and in balance. From a sealing point of view its the front face that's closing the gap between pipe and fitting that is doing the work anyway. ....but the front of the olive can only close up if it can slide further down the pipe. |
Leaking flex tap connector
John wrote:
Lee Nowell wrote in : I had assumed that the pipe had to be all the way in to exert the nut tightening force in the olive. By backing off slightly, the tightning force will be applied to both sides of the olive. If the pipe is pushed all the way in then there is no movement possible at the inner end so nearly all the final deformation will be at the outer end of the olive. Think it through for yourself and see if you agree. And especially likely to catch you out if you use the same nut and olive on a new fitting (e.g. radiator valve) with a slightly shallower pipe recess; without excessive deforming force the side of the olive away from the nut will be held away ffrom the fitting by the length of the pipe. The remedy is to take mm or two off the end of the pitpe, but that is a nuisance. -- Roger Hayter |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 11/11/2019 23:36, John wrote:
I am sure the OP, has got that message by now. I also have a bee in my bonnet about exterior PIR lights that are aimed horizontally! :-) Yup with you on that... (not to mention using 500W when a 60W would do the same job just as well!) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
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Leaking flex tap connector
I also have a bee in my bonnet about exterior PIR lights that are aimed horizontally! :-) Yup with you on that... (not to mention using 500W when a 60W would do the same job just as well!) .....and many fitted by professionals. |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 11/11/2019 23:41, John wrote:
I can't see that will make any significant difference. The nut will tend to compress the back of the olive and also drive it into the gap between fitting and pipe which compresses the front of it. The forces on both sides will be largely similar and in balance. From a sealing point of view its the front face that's closing the gap between pipe and fitting that is doing the work anyway. ...but the front of the olive can only close up if it can slide further down the pipe. A new olive will slide down the pipe easily - its the process of forcing it into the socket on the fitting that results in the compression onto the pipe, by which time its already in the right place. To be fair, this is not a suggestion I have heard in the past, and so have never tried doing it intentionally, but then again I have not had any difficulty making successful compression joints in the vast majority cf cases either. While I accept that having a slight withdrawal of the pipe (oh err!) is unlikely have any deleterious effect in most cases, I would also note that it is contrary to the manufacturers instructions, which normally stipulate that the pipe should be hard against the end stop. E.g. http://www.pegleryorkshire.co.uk/MED...te_600_900.pdf (see 1a) or http://www.conexbanninger.com/upload...14088edb0e.pdf See section 2.1.3 -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
John Rumm wrote in
See section 2.1.3 I read the tip on here and it gave me a Eureka sensation! |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 12/11/2019 08:57, John Rumm wrote:
On 11/11/2019 23:36, John wrote: I am sure the OP, has got that message by now. I also have a bee in my bonnet about exterior PIR lights that are aimed horizontally! :-) Yup with you on that... One of mine is almost horizontal, but a) that is because I need it to light the full distance from the front of my garage, along the back driveway and up to the back door of the house (especially as my wife has poor night vision, balance problems and joint problems, so she is likely to fall and struggle to get up again if she steps on a ball or something in the dark) and b) our side gates are solid and tall, so the houses opposite are not really affected. (not to mention using 500W when a 60W would do the same job just as well!) Ours is LED these days, but there was originally a 500W unit, partly to get sufficient light some distance away, but also because I use the area in front of the garage for marking out and cutting and don't want to be stopped or make a mistake due to poor lighting on a winter evening. SteveW |
Leaking flex tap connector
Steve Walker wrote in
: On 12/11/2019 08:57, John Rumm wrote: On 11/11/2019 23:36, John wrote: I am sure the OP, has got that message by now. I also have a bee in my bonnet about exterior PIR lights that are aimed horizontally! :-) Yup with you on that... One of mine is almost horizontal, but a) that is because I need it to light the full distance from the front of my garage, along the back driveway and up to the back door of the house (especially as my wife has poor night vision, balance problems and joint problems, so she is likely to fall and struggle to get up again if she steps on a ball or something in the dark) and b) our side gates are solid and tall, so the houses opposite are not really affected. (not to mention using 500W when a 60W would do the same job just as well!) Ours is LED these days, but there was originally a 500W unit, partly to get sufficient light some distance away, but also because I use the area in front of the garage for marking out and cutting and don't want to be stopped or make a mistake due to poor lighting on a winter evening. SteveW Consider the proportion of the light that is not hitting your property at all. At least 50% will be going upwards. You may even have a dark spot und er the lamp. Surely aiming the centre of the "beam" at the place where you are working will be an improvement. Better still - the edge of the beam at the outer edge of your property to limit overspill. |
Leaking flex tap connector
My wife also has poor vision and this is made worse by having a bright
source of light in her field of vision. Our driveway light is under the house eaves and points almost directly downwards - it is perfect for all reasons. |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 12/11/2019 10:10, John wrote:
My wife also has poor vision and this is made worse by having a bright source of light in her field of vision. Our driveway light is under the house eaves and points almost directly downwards - it is perfect for all reasons. Our garage is the length of the back garden away from the house, so the light needs to be strong at the front of the garage for me to work there, but reasonably strong right along to the house and past to the back door of the house, which is actually some way along the side. The light is not actually horizontal, but is angled high enough that the upper cut-off is near horizontal. She does not suffer from problems with a bright light source, but struggles with a lack of light - I have often guided her on unlit paths or across campsites in the dark, where she can't see anything at all and has to be warned of kerbs, etc., while I can see fine. I am intending to put up lights at the side of the house - at which point the garage light will only need to light in front of the garage and part of the way along the garden, but that cannot be done until I am ready to redecorate the kitchen, as wiring will need to come from there and through the wall. SteveW |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 12/11/2019 09:47, John wrote:
John Rumm wrote in See section 2.1.3 I read the tip on here and it gave me a Eureka sensation! It just gives me an "unnecessary complication that is more likely to result in a leaking joint" sensation! (i.e. pull it out too far and you will get a mechanically weak joint, and poorer sealing since the olive will be too close to the end of the pipe, which will then deform too much under tightening) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
John Rumm wrote in
o.uk: On 12/11/2019 09:47, John wrote: John Rumm wrote in See section 2.1.3 I read the tip on here and it gave me a Eureka sensation! It just gives me an "unnecessary complication that is more likely to result in a leaking joint" sensation! (i.e. pull it out too far and you will get a mechanically weak joint, and poorer sealing since the olive will be too close to the end of the pipe, which will then deform too much under tightening) I did suggest (pass on) a millimetre or two. |
Leaking flex tap connector
When I used to read up on lighting (I was involved in stage lighting) the mantra was to see the effect of the light but never the source of the light.(as it results in the eye's iris closing down and everywhere else appearing darker) |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 12/11/2019 12:56, John wrote:
John Rumm wrote in o.uk: On 12/11/2019 09:47, John wrote: John Rumm wrote in See section 2.1.3 I read the tip on here and it gave me a Eureka sensation! It just gives me an "unnecessary complication that is more likely to result in a leaking joint" sensation! (i.e. pull it out too far and you will get a mechanically weak joint, and poorer sealing since the olive will be too close to the end of the pipe, which will then deform too much under tightening) I did suggest (pass on) a millimetre or two. A mm or two is easy when sat in my chair typing, but much harder to be consistent with when scrunched into corner, working under a floor etc. There is a little more certainty with "push it all the way in"! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Leaking flex tap connector
On 09/11/2019 16:35, Lee Nowell wrote:
Sorry Richard should have mentioned that I file the ends of the isolation valve flat before fitting. Wonder if this one I didn't do it enough. Will take a look at your fitting sounds like it is just the job although I hate compression fittings as mine take several attempts before they are sealed :) Nobody used these? Made for the job. https://www.toolstation.com/tap-tail-adaptors/p14081 -- Dave The Medway Handyman |
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