Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]


You could use one of those 3-round pin 5 amp sockets intended
for table lamps etc. Less bulky than the 13A variety.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Friday, 4 October 2019 18:39:16 UTC+1, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

Yes, but preferably 2 amp or 5 amp.

Not considered good practice to fit a 13A socket to a lighting circuit.

Owain

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:18:40 PM UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]


You could use one of those 3-round pin 5 amp sockets intended
for table lamps etc. Less bulky than the 13A variety.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 19:20, wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2019 18:39:16 UTC+1, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

Yes, but preferably 2 amp or 5 amp.

Not considered good practice to fit a 13A socket to a lighting circuit.

All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum cleaner.


--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 19:30, George Miles wrote:
But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

So do Ikea table lamps, but it is not illegal to chop
the 3 square pin plug off, fit a 5amp round pin plug and
use it quite safely.

You could use a fused spur and leave the Xmas lights up all
year, some people do.


On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:18:40 PM UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]


You could use one of those 3-round pin 5 amp sockets intended
for table lamps etc. Less bulky than the 13A variety.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 19:20, wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2019 18:39:16 UTC+1, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

Yes, but preferably 2 amp or 5 amp.

Not considered good practice to fit a 13A socket to a lighting circuit.

Owain


but electrically safe as long as it has the correct breaker in the cu.

it may not be safe if the lights go out in the dark.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?


Yup, but label the socket accordingly, or use a small lighting style
socket if your lights don't have wall wart style supplies.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 04/10/2019 19:57, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/10/2019 19:20, wrote:
On Friday, 4 October 2019 18:39:16 UTC+1, George MilesÂ* wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

Yes, but preferably 2 amp or 5 amp.

Not considered good practice to fit a 13A socket to a lighting circuit.

Owain


but electrically safe as long as it has the correct breaker in the cu.

it may not be safe if the lights go out in the dark.

A pity really as the dark is when you want them to work.


--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

Well, modern led ones seem to be powered by cheap and chearful wall warts,
designed to be radio jammers. grin.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"George Miles" wrote in message
...
But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:18:40 PM UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]


You could use one of those 3-round pin 5 amp sockets intended
for table lamps etc. Less bulky than the 13A variety.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

--
*It ain't the size, it's... er... no, it IS ..the size.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

So do Ikea table lamps, but it is not illegal to chop
the 3 square pin plug off, fit a 5amp round pin plug and
use it quite safely.

LED Xmas lights usually have the PS in the mains plug - a wall wart.

--
*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg breaking
monsters.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.

You could always connect it via a 3A FCU. That might stop it tripping
the lighting MCB if overloaded, most times anyway.



--

Roger Hayter

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:30:14 PM UTC+1, George Miles wrote:
But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 7:18:40 PM UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 04/10/2019 18:39, George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

[g]


You could use one of those 3-round pin 5 amp sockets intended
for table lamps etc. Less bulky than the 13A variety.

....fused at 1 to 3 amps

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is
above the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the
vacuum cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central
light via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg breaking
monsters.

Odd my mother managed with one like that long before the EU was even
thought of. ;-)

--
*Bigamy is having one wife too many - monogamy is the same

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 12:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.


The reason I got banned from doing B&Q kitchen electrics was because I
installed a 2g socket (on a 32A ring circuit) above the kitchen
cupboards as the customer wanted a socket there for a remote controlled
radio to save on worktop space.

The B&Q inspector "You cannot put a socket up there they could plug
anything in"
Me "I bet that they cannot wait to get out the step ladders and plug the
toaster in"
He then poked me in the chest with his finger with every word of "I am
telling you that you are not putting a socket there"

I then punched him.

--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is
above the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the
vacuum cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central
light via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg breaking
monsters.

Odd my mother managed with one like that long before the EU was even
thought of. ;-)


And the iron?

--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 16:40, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is
above the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the
vacuum cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central
light via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg breaking
monsters.

Odd my mother managed with one like that long before the EU was even
thought of. ;-)


And the iron?


But a /triple/ adapter was the key thing to have for the ironing - so
you could see to do the ironing of an evening while watching the tele.



Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 14:19:56 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.

You could always connect it via a 3A FCU. That might stop it tripping
the lighting MCB if overloaded, most times anyway.

Type B & Type II MCBs are far faster than fuses.


NT

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 16:39:45 UTC+1, ARW wrote:

The reason I got banned from doing B&Q kitchen electrics was because I
installed a 2g socket (on a 32A ring circuit) above the kitchen
cupboards as the customer wanted a socket there for a remote controlled
radio to save on worktop space.

The B&Q inspector "You cannot put a socket up there they could plug
anything in"
Me "I bet that they cannot wait to get out the step ladders and plug the
toaster in"
He then poked me in the chest with his finger with every word of "I am
telling you that you are not putting a socket there"

I then punched him.

lol

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 19:28, wrote:
On Saturday, 5 October 2019 14:19:56 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.

You could always connect it via a 3A FCU. That might stop it tripping
the lighting MCB if overloaded, most times anyway.

Type B & Type II MCBs are far faster than fuses.


I would not bet on it in a short circuit.


--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 18:10, Robin wrote:
On 05/10/2019 16:40, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is
above the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the
vacuum cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central
light via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg
breaking
monsters.

Odd my mother managed with one like that long before the EU was even
thought of. ;-)


And the iron?


But a /triple/ adapter was the key thing to have for the ironing - so
you could see to do the ironing of an evening while watching the tele.

Damn those posh houses with their triple adaptors and a TV:-)

Some of them also had a telephone.


--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 20:28:35 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
Damn those posh houses with their triple adaptors and a TV:-)
Some of them also had a telephone.

*We* had a Trimphone :-)

Owain

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 12:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

Showing your age, Dave. I just about remember those (I'm nearly 50)....

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 21:08:24 UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, 5 October 2019 20:28:35 UTC+1, ARW wrote:

Damn those posh houses with their triple adaptors and a TV:-)
Some of them also had a telephone.

*We* had a Trimphone :-)

Owain

Ditto. After a while birds used to imitate it.


NT

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 20:25:34 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 19:28, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 5 October 2019 14:19:56 UTC+1, Roger Hayter wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
George Miles wrote:

I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.

You could always connect it via a 3A FCU. That might stop it tripping
the lighting MCB if overloaded, most times anyway.

Type B & Type II MCBs are far faster than fuses.


I would not bet on it in a short circuit.

Maybe, but in most cases the mcb wins.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 12:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)


I went around and added up the wattage of the halogen fittings in the
kitchen when my daughter moved into their new house..

1.8Kw. So a vac is nothing special.


That was four fittings each with nine 50W halogen bulbs in.
I think switching to LED will be a cost saving.

It won't take long they were failing at about one a week or two.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 12:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)


My house was built with a curtain fan heater above the kichen door
(no other heating) and a 3 pin socket on the ring main next to it.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 20:28, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 18:10, Robin wrote:
On 05/10/2019 16:40, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 14:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* charles wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is
above the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the
vacuum cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central
light via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)

that only worked with sensibly power machines - not with EU reg
breaking
monsters.

Odd my mother managed with one like that long before the EU was even
thought of. ;-)


And the iron?


But a /triple/ adapter was the key thing to have for the ironing - so
you could see to do the ironing of an evening while watching the tele.

Damn those posh houses with their triple adaptors and a TV:-)

Some of them also had a telephone.



Only in the hall, on a special low table so you had to bend
down in the gloom of a well-shaded 40 watt bulb to read the
phone book. :-)

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 06/10/2019 15:29, dennis@home wrote:

I went around and added up the wattage of the halogen fittings in the
kitchen when my daughter moved into their new house..


"their" or "her" new house:-)

Buy her the LEDs (that is what good Dad's do) but get her (or her
partner) to fit them.

I would recommend siting on a chair whilst watching them change the lamps.


--
Adam

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 16:39, ARW wrote:
On 05/10/2019 12:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* George Miles wrote:
I have 1.5mm cable for a downstairs lighting circuit.
Can I add a 3 pin socket to it above the door
for use by christmas lights etc?

It's common to use round pin sockets for things like table lamps plugged
in to a lighting circuit. Normally round pin 2 or 5 amp. If you used a 13
amp socket, some idiot might plug in a heater etc.


The reason I got banned from doing B&Q kitchen electrics was because I
installed a 2g socket (on a 32A ring circuit) above the kitchen
cupboards as the customer wanted a socket there for a remote controlled
radio to save on worktop space.

The B&Q inspector "You cannot put a socket up there they could plug
anything in"
Me "I bet that they cannot wait to get out the step ladders and plug the
toaster in"
He then poked me in the chest with his finger with every word of "I am
telling you that you are not putting a socket there"

I then punched him.


Neighbour had a new kitchen fitted by Magnet 20 years ago.
These houses have blockwork partition walls up and down stairs
constructed with 3 inch blocks made of compressed straw and cement,
then sand/cement rendered to give a 4 inch total width.

Magnet fitter put a fused spur under the worktop for the builtin
fridge and drilled right through the wall into the lounge while
cutting out a recess for the backbox.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Sunday, 6 October 2019 15:56:23 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
Some of them also had a telephone.
Only in the hall, on a special low table so you had to bend
down in the gloom of a well-shaded 40 watt bulb to read the
phone book. :-)

Ah, but directory enquiries were free then.

Just as well as it took them quite a while to look up a number

Owain

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 05/10/2019 12:51, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew wrote:
But XMAS lights come with 3 pin plugs
[g]

So do Ikea table lamps, but it is not illegal to chop
the 3 square pin plug off, fit a 5amp round pin plug and
use it quite safely.

LED Xmas lights usually have the PS in the mains plug - a wall wart.

Which is why I have three 6" leads with a 5A plug on one end and a 13A
socket on the other. They live in the shed for most of the year and only
come out when the Christmas lights do

It's not foolproof, but it does stop someone absentmindedly plugging a
hair dryer into the lighting circuit for most of the year and when they
are actually in use, no-one will plug something in without it prompting
them to think about it.

SteveW

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 06/10/2019 15:57, ARW wrote:
On 06/10/2019 15:29, dennis@home wrote:

I went around and added up the wattage of the halogen fittings in the
kitchen when my daughter moved into their new house..


"their" or "her" new house:-)

Buy her the LEDs (that is what good Dad's do) but get her (or her
partner) to fit them.

I would recommend siting on a chair whilst watching them change the lamps.



nah, I am buying the range cooker not the LEDs.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

dennis@home wrote:

On 05/10/2019 12:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)


I went around and added up the wattage of the halogen fittings in the
kitchen when my daughter moved into their new house..

1.8Kw. So a vac is nothing special.


That was four fittings each with nine 50W halogen bulbs in.
I think switching to LED will be a cost saving.

It won't take long they were failing at about one a week or two.

That would be a lot for a 6A circuit, which the OP says he has.

--

Roger Hayter

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On 06/10/2019 21:31, Roger Hayter wrote:
dennis@home wrote:

On 05/10/2019 12:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

But don't many on here plug in their vacuum cleaner to the central light
via a BC adaptor anyway? ;-)


I went around and added up the wattage of the halogen fittings in the
kitchen when my daughter moved into their new house..

1.8Kw. So a vac is nothing special.


That was four fittings each with nine 50W halogen bulbs in.
I think switching to LED will be a cost saving.

It won't take long they were failing at about one a week or two.

That would be a lot for a 6A circuit, which the OP says he has.


It was on a 6A circuit. Did I mention there were another 12 50W halogens
in the living room on the same circuit and I think the six on the
landing may also be on the same one but I haven't checked.

Someone obviously like halogen lamps and had money to burn.

Most were on dimmers too which would shorten their llfe a lot and not
save much energy. It does make fitting LEDs more difficult though as it
restricts choice.

You can tell they were unreliable, there was a box of 24 spare bulbs in
a cupboard.

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

On Saturday, 5 October 2019 12:51:04 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
All it needs is to be a labelled socket. However as the socket is above
the door I doubt the cleaner will accidentally plug in the vacuum
cleaner.

My wife's grandmother used to in the 1970s

Jonathan

Socket to 6 amp lighting circuit OK?
 

In article ,
dennis@home wrote:
That was four fittings each with nine 50W halogen bulbs in.
I think switching to LED will be a cost saving.

It won't take long they were failing at about one a week or two.

Sound like B&Q bulbs. Get decent ones from TLC in the future. They last
the quoted life.

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.