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Electrical Building Regs Part P
Part P comes in on 1/1/05.
looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? Is there any allowance in the date for work in progress & if so, how long do you get to finish? Would it depend on the scale of the project and/or whether it is a project in progress under building regs approval except for part P? |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"jim_in_sussex" wrote in message om... Part P comes in on 1/1/05. Yeah :-( looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? You can touch anything. You just now need BCO approval for big jobs. These are listed in the regs. But diy is fine. There is now no lockout in English law of doing any work on your house provided you can prove competence to Building Control. No doubt there will be further attempts at restricting this like the CORGI and pressurised heating systems fiascos but for now things are fine. But this does NOT apply to other houses you don't own - for instance installing a gas boiler for a friend is illegal. Is there any allowance in the date for work in progress & if so, how long do you get to finish? Would it depend on the scale of the project and/or whether it is a project in progress under building regs approval except for part P? Yep - provided work is started you are ok. There are thousands of projects in progress when any change is made to building regs. Imagine the chaos if one had to change all the windows from one type to another because you hadn't quite finished the house when the new Part L came out a few years ago. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"jim_in_sussex" wrote in message
om... Part P comes in on 1/1/05. looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? Is there any allowance in the date for work in progress & if so, how long do you get to finish? Would it depend on the scale of the project and/or whether it is a project in progress under building regs approval except for part P? Ah well, another stupid law to ignore. -- Richard Sampson email me at richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
G&M wrote:
"jim_in_sussex" wrote in message om... Part P comes in on 1/1/05. Yeah :-( looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? You can touch anything. You just now need BCO approval for big jobs. These are listed in the regs. But diy is fine. There is now no lockout in English law of doing any work on your house provided you can prove competence to Building Control. No doubt there will be further attempts at restricting this like the CORGI and pressurised heating systems fiascos but for now things are fine. But this does NOT apply to other houses you don't own - for instance installing a gas boiler for a friend is illegal. Even if not for 'gain'? |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On 06 Aug 2004 11:23:31 GMT, Ian Stirling
wrote: G&M wrote: "jim_in_sussex" wrote in message om... Part P comes in on 1/1/05. Yeah :-( looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? You can touch anything. You just now need BCO approval for big jobs. These are listed in the regs. But diy is fine. There is now no lockout in English law of doing any work on your house provided you can prove competence to Building Control. No doubt there will be further attempts at restricting this like the CORGI and pressurised heating systems fiascos but for now things are fine. But this does NOT apply to other houses you don't own - for instance installing a gas boiler for a friend is illegal. Even if not for 'gain'? Sticky wicket. the legislation does not specify whether money has to change hands only implies it via employment and self employment. So if you were to go and install a boiler for a friend and there is a problem and they decide to sue you because the friend was blown up, it could be tricky in the hands of an appropriate scumbag (sorry lawyer). ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
could be tricky in the hands of an appropriate scumbag (sorry lawyer). That will be, Scumbag, Scumbag and Soakem, will it ? Dave -- Some people use windows, others have a life. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
In article ,
G&M wrote: Yep - provided work is started you are ok. There are thousands of projects in progress when any change is made to building regs. Excellent. In that case, I'm currently rewiring my house. Started 6 years ago and expect to complete it sometime 2023. Darren |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"dmc" wrote
| Yep - provided work is started you are ok. There are thousands | of projects in progress when any change is made to building regs. | Excellent. In that case, I'm currently rewiring my house. | Started 6 years ago and expect to complete it sometime 2023. I'll buy an empty consumer unit box and attach some meter tails to it. Job started. I'll complete it when I've bought a house that needs rewiring. Owain |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"dmc" wrote in message ... In article , G&M wrote: Yep - provided work is started you are ok. There are thousands of projects in progress when any change is made to building regs. Excellent. In that case, I'm currently rewiring my house. Started 6 years ago and expect to complete it sometime 2023. But did you tell them that ? An interesting point - perhaps we should all write letters to building control before Jan telling them we are in the middle of major re-wiring. Though remember you only have 3 years for any building control submission, or exempt job in the case of a new reg, so Jan 2008 is the cutoff no matter what. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:56:10 +0100, "RichardS" noaccess@invalid
wrote: "jim_in_sussex" wrote in message . com... Part P comes in on 1/1/05. looks like a diy killer. What can you touch in house with all mod cons which doesn't impinge on the electrics? Is there any allowance in the date for work in progress & if so, how long do you get to finish? Would it depend on the scale of the project and/or whether it is a project in progress under building regs approval except for part P? Ah well, another stupid law to ignore. Oh no citizen! You must realise the guillotine is your friend. It may make your neck a little sore but costly, inconvenient haircuts will be a thing of the past. -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
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Electrical Building Regs Part P
Jerry Pournelle talks about a state of "anarcho-fascism" where the State overweaningly imposes trivial laws and regulations, while real criminals go unpunished. Does'nt Tony have that here already ? Dave -- Some people use windows, others have a life. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
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Electrical Building Regs Part P
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Electrical Building Regs Part P
On 7 Aug 2004 13:44:59 GMT, (Huge) wrote:
Tony Halmarack writes: On 7 Aug 2004 11:10:16 GMT, (Huge) wrote: Tony Halmarack writes: On 7 Aug 2004 09:45:20 GMT, (Huge) wrote: [23 lines snipped] Jerry Pournelle talks about a state of "anarcho-fascism" where the State overweaningly imposes trivial laws and regulations, while real criminals go unpunished. But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? It's much easier to catch and punish those who are generally law abiding, with jobs, mortgages and families. Why bust a gut trying to catch "professional" criminals? Well yes, that and self preservation. If you mean self-justification, then yes. "Look at us, look at all these nasty criminals we caught". The so-called "Safety" camera partnerships are an ideal example. No, I meant self preservation but I do see your point. :-) -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On 7 Aug 2004 13:44:59 GMT, (Huge) wrote:
Tony Halmarack writes: On 7 Aug 2004 11:10:16 GMT, (Huge) wrote: Tony Halmarack writes: On 7 Aug 2004 09:45:20 GMT, (Huge) wrote: [23 lines snipped] Jerry Pournelle talks about a state of "anarcho-fascism" where the State overweaningly imposes trivial laws and regulations, while real criminals go unpunished. But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? It's much easier to catch and punish those who are generally law abiding, with jobs, mortgages and families. Why bust a gut trying to catch "professional" criminals? Well yes, that and self preservation. If you mean self-justification, then yes. "Look at us, look at all these nasty criminals we caught". The so-called "Safety" camera partnerships are an ideal example. No, I meant self preservation but I do see your point. :-) -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:57:54 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: "dmc" wrote in message ... Excellent. In that case, I'm currently rewiring my house. Started 6 years ago and expect to complete it sometime 2023. Though remember you only have 3 years for any building control submission, or exempt job in the case of a new reg, so Jan 2008 is the cutoff no matter what. Once you start, there is no time limit by which the work must be complete. -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:57:54 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: "dmc" wrote in message ... Excellent. In that case, I'm currently rewiring my house. Started 6 years ago and expect to complete it sometime 2023. Though remember you only have 3 years for any building control submission, or exempt job in the case of a new reg, so Jan 2008 is the cutoff no matter what. Once you start, there is no time limit by which the work must be complete. Is this a recent change ? We started work in 2003 and the documentation I have printed out clearly states a three year limit. Yet this is now not on the web site of the council involved. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:57:54 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Also you might like to change your way of refering to people IF YOU DON'T MIND !!!!! |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:07:12 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Also you might like to change your way of refering to people IF YOU DON'T MIND !!!!! SHAN'T!! -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:06:17 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M"
randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Is this a recent change ? We started work in 2003 and the documentation I have printed out clearly states a three year limit. Yet this is now not on the web site of the council involved. If you don't start within three years, the council can serve a "section 32" (of the Building Act) notice, declaring that the application has lapsed, but if you start and notify the council before receiving this notice, there is no time limit for the work to be carried out. It's been like that since 1984, if not before. -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:33:35 +0100, Hugo Nebula
wrote: On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:06:17 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "G&M" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: Is this a recent change ? We started work in 2003 and the documentation I have printed out clearly states a three year limit. Yet this is now not on the web site of the council involved. If you don't start within three years, the council can serve a "section 32" (of the Building Act) notice, declaring that the application has lapsed, but if you start and notify the council before receiving this notice, there is no time limit for the work to be carried out. It's been like that since 1984, if not before. OK..... So what happens if one starts what is currently an uncontrolled work now, and it becomes controlled during the work which then finishes at some unspecified date in the future? In the case of wiring, AIUI, for new builds, new harmonised colours must be used now. For work in existing property, one can use either this or existing red/black. One or two people have remarked that presence of new colours in an existing property would imply that work had started after the introdution of part P, - i.e. when old colours go off of the market. However, if there is a grandfathering effect that work already started can be completed, would it not be legitimate to take the position that a rewiring (controlled after January) started now could be completed at some arbitrary point in the future using new colours because the old were not available? If so, from the DIY perspective, there would be little effect from making the activity controlled if the person claims (albeit telling fibs) to have started before the watershed date. Or have I missed something? ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 21:54:19 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named Andy
Hall randomly hit the keyboard and produced: So what happens if one starts what is currently an uncontrolled work now, and it becomes controlled during the work which then finishes at some unspecified date in the future? If it starts before 1st January 2005, then it's not controlled and it stays uncontrolled. -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
... In the case of wiring, AIUI, for new builds, new harmonised colours must be used now. That's not the case - although it would be sensible, IMO. At the moment you have the choice of using new or old colours. It's not until 01/04/2006 that work commencing on site must use the harmonised colours. One or two people have remarked that presence of new colours in an existing property would imply that work had started after the introdution of part P, - i.e. when old colours go off of the market. But that's nonsense: (a) you can use new colours now, befor Part P takes effect, (b) who says old colours will go off the market then? Some people will want to use old colours for as long as possible, possibly after April 06. I've no idea when old-colour cable will disappear from the general market, but I'd guess that it won't be for a while (any cable manufacturers reading this?). However, if there is a grandfathering effect that work already started can be completed, would it not be legitimate to take the position that a rewiring (controlled after January) started now could be completed at some arbitrary point in the future using new colours because the old were not available? See Regulation 3 (Transitional provisions) in the SI[1]. If so, from the DIY perspective, there would be little effect from making the activity controlled if the person claims (albeit telling fibs) to have started before the watershed date. But Regulation 3(6) says: "(6) In relation to building work of a description added to Schedule 2A by regulation 2(10) (installation of fixed low or extra-low voltage electrical installations in dwellings) where the contract for the work was entered into before 1st January 2005 and the work was completed before 1st April 2005, the principal Regulations shall continue to apply to that building work as if the amendments made by regulation 2(8) had not been made." Or have I missed something? Well 'they' seem to have missed the DIY case where there is no contract /per se/. The spirt of the thing though seems to be that for un-notified work you only get 3 months grace, whereas if the wiring is in connection with other notified building work you have an unlimited period, except in relation to any variations notified subseqently. [1] http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...4/20041808.htm - well worth reading. The legislation does not say that you to comply with BS 7671... -- Andy |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
Tony Halmarack wrote:
But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? Because those in charge are the real criminals? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 04:44:07 +0100, John Rumm
wrote: Tony Halmarack wrote: But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? Because those in charge are the real criminals? It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:03:57 +0100, "Andy Wade"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . In the case of wiring, AIUI, for new builds, new harmonised colours must be used now. That's not the case - although it would be sensible, IMO. At the moment you have the choice of using new or old colours. It's not until 01/04/2006 that work commencing on site must use the harmonised colours. OK. I was told that for new builds it was already the case. I must admit that I hadn't looked up the transition arrangements though. One or two people have remarked that presence of new colours in an existing property would imply that work had started after the introdution of part P, - i.e. when old colours go off of the market. But that's nonsense: (a) you can use new colours now, befor Part P takes effect, (b) who says old colours will go off the market then? Some people will want to use old colours for as long as possible, possibly after April 06. I've no idea when old-colour cable will disappear from the general market, but I'd guess that it won't be for a while (any cable manufacturers reading this?). This was the view from a couple of electrical wholesalers who thought that most likely it would be driven by the manufacturers not wanting to run as many product lines. However, if there is a grandfathering effect that work already started can be completed, would it not be legitimate to take the position that a rewiring (controlled after January) started now could be completed at some arbitrary point in the future using new colours because the old were not available? See Regulation 3 (Transitional provisions) in the SI[1]. If so, from the DIY perspective, there would be little effect from making the activity controlled if the person claims (albeit telling fibs) to have started before the watershed date. But Regulation 3(6) says: "(6) In relation to building work of a description added to Schedule 2A by regulation 2(10) (installation of fixed low or extra-low voltage electrical installations in dwellings) where the contract for the work was entered into before 1st January 2005 and the work was completed before 1st April 2005, the principal Regulations shall continue to apply to that building work as if the amendments made by regulation 2(8) had not been made." Or have I missed something? Well 'they' seem to have missed the DIY case where there is no contract /per se/. The spirt of the thing though seems to be that for un-notified work you only get 3 months grace, whereas if the wiring is in connection with other notified building work you have an unlimited period, except in relation to any variations notified subseqently. I see what you mean, but by the way this is written, the un-notified case is not covered at all. In practical terms, I wonder what difference this will mean. I suspect something like gas fitting where honest tradespeople will pay up and sign up for one of the exemption organisations, others will continue to be cowboys and stand virtually zero chance of detection and DIY will continue as before. [1] http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/s...4/20041808.htm - well worth reading. The legislation does not say that you to comply with BS 7671... ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:03:57 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "Andy
Wade" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: "(6) In relation to building work of a description added to Schedule 2A by regulation 2(10) (installation of fixed low or extra-low voltage electrical installations in dwellings) where the contract for the work was entered into before 1st January 2005 and the work was completed before 1st April 2005, the principal Regulations shall continue to apply to that building work as if the amendments made by regulation 2(8) had not been made." Well 'they' seem to have missed the DIY case where there is no contract /per se/. The spirt of the thing though seems to be that for un-notified work you only get 3 months grace, whereas if the wiring is in connection with other notified building work you have an unlimited period, except in relation to any variations notified subseqently. Schedule 2A is the amendment to the list of "approved persons" who self-certify their work and don't need to submit an application. What that effectively says is that even if the work is carried out after 1st Jan 2005 (the date Part P comes into effect), then provided that the electrician had been engaged before, and provided the work finishes within 3 months, then the regulations don't apply. Whether DIY or a contractor, if the work, whether electrical work only or part of other work, commences before 1st Jan 2005, these regulations aren't in force. I've quickly scanned through them, and I can't see anything that would indicate otherwise. I think the table below is a reasonable approximation: Work |By |Start date |Part P applies? --------------------------------------------------------- Ext or alts |DIY |Before 1/1/05 |No " " " |Contractor| " " |No " " " |Either |After 1/1/05 |Yes Alts to elec|DIY | " " |No " " " |Contractor| " |No " " " |DIY |After 1/1/05 |Yes " " " |Contractor| " 1/1/05 but| | |before 1/4/05 |No " " " |Contractor|After 1/4/05 |Yes -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ... Whether DIY or a contractor, if the work, whether electrical work only or part of other work, commences before 1st Jan 2005, these regulations aren't in force. I've quickly scanned through them, and I can't see anything that would indicate otherwise. I think the table below is a reasonable approximation: So does this mean that I can effectively ignore Part P provided I claim I have started rewiring my house before 1/1/05, and I expect the job to take 40 years! Equally how in practice can it be enforced in any case? I understand that in general enforcement action can only be taken up to 12 months after the work has taken place - and in the case of Part P it is unlikely to be externally visible. In the situation I have described the house will not be sold in my lifetime - so purchasers solicitors questions are not relevant. James --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 18/07/2004 |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:25:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
"James" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: So does this mean that I can effectively ignore Part P provided I claim I have started rewiring my house before 1/1/05, and I expect the job to take 40 years! Equally how in practice can it be enforced in any case? I understand that in general enforcement action can only be taken up to 12 months after the work has taken place - and in the case of Part P it is unlikely to be externally visible. In the situation I have described the house will not be sold in my lifetime - so purchasers solicitors questions are not relevant. Undoubtedley there are going to be such instances in the first few years of people who started or who claim to have started the work prior to 1/1/05, and unless there's evidence to the contrary, no one is likely to argue. However, if a house had changed hands since the new requirements came into force, then it would be fairly obvious that any rewiring would have been carried out after the sale (for example if the original survey report included any comments on the condition of the wiring). Most plastic parts have "date stamps" on them (the circles with a series of dots to indicate the month & year of manufacture), and these or other markings would be a good guide as to when any work was carried out. As with replacement windows, I'm sure a lot of this will emerge when property is sold, and "enforced" in the same way. -- Hugo Nebula 'What you have to ask yourself is, "if no-one on the internet wants a piece of this, just how far from the pack have you strayed?"' |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Tony Halmarack" wrote in message ... On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 04:44:07 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Tony Halmarack wrote: But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? Because those in charge are the real criminals? It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message ... As with replacement windows, I'm sure a lot of this will emerge when property is sold, and "enforced" in the same way. -- This will of course only be "enforced" if a buyer is concerned about the absence of compliance paperwork - as I understand it will not be illegal to sell such a house (provided you truthfully answer any questions asked), and in most cases further "enforcement" will not be possible. Non -compliance my reduce the value of the property, although whether this will be visible in the noise associated with a sale is an open question. But as the regulations descend into more and more trivial areas, where there is widespread non-compliance buyers views may change. Most people would (rightly) be put off a significant extension without building regulations approval - but would they worry about an extra socket in kitchen - particularly when this says nothing about the state of the electrics in the rest of the house. Unfortunately this is likely to result in a lower respect for the building regulations - including those which really matter. James --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.719 / Virus Database: 475 - Release Date: 18/07/2004 |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:49:18 +0100, "G&M"
wrote: "Tony Halmarack" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 04:44:07 +0100, John Rumm wrote: Tony Halmarack wrote: But why would those in charge want the real criminals to go unpunished? Because those in charge are the real criminals? It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. Hmmm! And there's not many of those about. -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
Most plastic parts have "date stamps" on them (the circles with a series of dots to indicate the month & year of manufacture), and these or other markings would be a good guide as to when any work was carried out. Don't know if that could be proven, as it is my understanding that socket outlets/lighswitches can be replaced without notification. Or has that changed since I last read the proposals? -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:23:37 +0100, Hugo Nebula wrote:
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:25:55 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named "James" randomly hit the keyboard and produced: So does this mean that I can effectively ignore Part P provided I claim I have started rewiring my house before 1/1/05, and I expect the job to take 40 years! Equally how in practice can it be enforced in any case? I understand that in general enforcement action can only be taken up to 12 months after the work has taken place - and in the case of Part P it is unlikely to be externally visible. In the situation I have described the house will not be sold in my lifetime - so purchasers solicitors questions are not relevant. Undoubtedley there are going to be such instances in the first few years of people who started or who claim to have started the work prior to 1/1/05, and unless there's evidence to the contrary, no one is likely to argue. However, if a house had changed hands since the new requirements came into force, then it would be fairly obvious that any rewiring would have been carried out after the sale (for example if the original survey report included any comments on the condition of the wiring). Most plastic parts have "date stamps" on them (the circles with a series of dots to indicate the month & year of manufacture), and these or other markings would be a good guide as to when any work was carried out. As with replacement windows, I'm sure a lot of this will emerge when property is sold, and "enforced" in the same way. How often do surveyors take off sockets etc. to look..? I think we'll see a lot of blind eyes being turned. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Tony Halmarack" wrote in message ... Because those in charge are the real criminals? It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. Hmmm! And there's not many of those about. Not at 1960s prices !! |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:41:02 +0100, "G&M"
wrote: "Tony Halmarack" wrote in message .. . Because those in charge are the real criminals? It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. Hmmm! And there's not many of those about. Not at 1960s prices !! Certainly, that's because today we get much better quality wasteful projects, more meticulously managed -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
"Tony Halmarack" wrote in message ... It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. Hmmm! And there's not many of those about. Not at 1960s prices !! Certainly, that's because today we get much better quality wasteful projects, more meticulously managed Laugh. I assume you mean all these wonderful software projects which are going to save thousands of jobs by costing billions. |
Electrical Building Regs Part P
On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:46:37 +0100, "G&M"
wrote: "Tony Halmarack" wrote in message .. . It would be a very good perch for those types to flock together. There must be exceptions though. Tony Benn? True - he was the master criminal who trunked billions of pounds into wasteful projects. Hmmm! And there's not many of those about. Not at 1960s prices !! Certainly, that's because today we get much better quality wasteful projects, more meticulously managed Laugh. I assume you mean all these wonderful software projects which are going to save thousands of jobs by costing billions. Well, you can really take your pick. Any category will do. But that's OK 'cuz they're all a cock-ups rather than... y'know... the other thing. -- Tony Halmarack Drop the EGG to email me. |
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