What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

R D S wrote:

What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

elec 13.97p/kWh and 13.87p/day
gas 3.07p/kWh and 11.55p/day

(all inc VAT)
Utility Point, fixed for 18 months, no exit fees

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

EDF "Deemed Standard" 18.49p/kWh with standing charge 24.95p/day.

--
Max Demian

R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

Symbio 'Sunshine Saver August 19':
11.705p/kWh and standing charge 17p/day, fixed for 12 months until Aug 2020.

Theo

Theo wrote:

Symbio 'Sunshine Saver August 19':
11.705p/kWh and standing charge 17p/day, fixed for 12 months until Aug 2020.

Presume they don't bother with comparison sites? also they don't seem to
do dual fuel.

Andy Burns wrote:
Theo wrote:

Symbio 'Sunshine Saver August 19':
11.705p/kWh and standing charge 17p/day, fixed for 12 months until Aug 2020.

Presume they don't bother with comparison sites? also they don't seem to
do dual fuel.

You have to tick the 'show all providers' box, otherwise comparison sites
only show the suppliers that provide kickbacks.

It's often cheaper to go to separate suppliers, rather than dual fuel.

Theo

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.


Its not just the unit rate but also any daily standing charge

My rate
Daily standing charge = 16.8p
Unit rate = 13.65p

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Theo wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Presume [Symbio] don't bother with comparison sites?

You have to tick the 'show all providers' box, otherwise comparison sites
only show the suppliers that provide kickbacks.

They never show-up on the Martyn Lewis site, which is quite open about
who gives them kickbacks

On 08 Sep 2019 17:16:01 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

You have to tick the 'show all providers' box, otherwise comparison
sites only show the suppliers that provide kickbacks.

And/or the comparision site can initiate the switch for you. Which
may or may not mean the comparison site gets a kickback.

It's often cheaper to go to separate suppliers, rather than dual fuel.

When I was looking to switch the in law the other month gas only
suppliers seemed a bit thin on the ground. Also with dual fuel
tariffs I looked at the electricity price from a agiven supplier for
electricity only or dual fuel was the same.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 15:04:31 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

elec 13.97p/kWh and 13.87p/day
gas 3.07p/kWh and 11.55p/day

(all inc VAT)
Utility Point, fixed for 18 months, no exit fees

Lecky only Utilty Point inc VAT:

12.0265p/kWHr 11.02395p/day fixed but ends in 20 days ish...

Might be worth the OP looking at Bulb and using my "refer a friend"
link:

https://www.bulb.me/davel2038

As both they and I get £50 credited to our repective accounts.
(That's a lowercase L). £50 is enough make the effective p/kWhr some
what lower than that quoted on the tariff.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.


10.95 per kWh variable and 11.02 per day with Utility Point (not on all
comparison sites).

There are vast differences of course...
At first sight EDF might seem expensive, but..
265 units @ 24.55p = £65.06
255 units @ 4.54p = £11.58

Basically, in the Summer I lose due to the high cost of day units, but the
cheap night units during the winter gains me a lot as I am single fuel.

I'm sure they deliberately all make the tariffs so complex as to make it
impossible to compare like with like.
The other constraint I have is that many companies SAY they will do plain
text email billing and really send a reader out to read it foor the blind
but fail miserably, while EDF do seem to do as they say they will.



After all, All the electricity comes from the same generators down the same
wires, so its the admin and of course profit you pay for. I do feel some
only pay lip service to being disabled friendly as their admin is so poorly
funded.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"R D S" wrote in message
...
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

I've been very happy with Bulb and have been resisting posting a
referral link for them, but someone else has done it so here's mine:
www.bulb.me/dave7481. If you follow that link for a quote we both get
£50 if you decide to move to Bulb.
The basic Bulb tariff is 13.64p/kWh, but you can choose a 3-level
overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak (31.58p) tariff if you have a
SMETS2 meter. I had one fitted recently so am wondering whether to
change tariff.

wrote:

you can choose a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak
(31.58p) tariff if you have a SMETS2 meter.

What are the hours, can they change them when they feel like it?

On 08/09/2019 19:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:

https://www.bulb.me/davel2038

As both they and I get £50 credited to our repective accounts.
(That's a lowercase L). £50 is enough make the effective p/kWhr some
what lower than that quoted on the tariff.


Payday!

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 20:37:13 +0100, wrote:

I've been very happy with Bulb and have been resisting posting a
referral link for them, but someone else has done it ...

Sorry I blinked first. B-)

a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak (31.58p) tariff if
you have a SMETS2 meter.

Hum, that really is starting to make finding the "best deal" rather
more complicated. You need to know your useage profile in relation to
when those rates apply, which gets even more complicated if the time
periods for each rate vary.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 08/09/2019 16:14, Theo wrote:
R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

Symbio 'Sunshine Saver August 19':
11.705p/kWh and standing charge 17p/day, fixed for 12 months until Aug 2020.

Theo

Have you been happy with Symbio as a supplier? They do look quite cheap
and my contract is due for renewal, so thank you for the info.

--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:
Have you been happy with Symbio as a supplier? They do look quite cheap
and my contract is due for renewal, so thank you for the info.

Switch hasn't fully gone through yet, so not enough experience to comment at
present.

Theo

On 08/09/2019 20:43, Andy Burns wrote:
wrote:

you can choose a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak
(31.58p) tariff if you have a SMETS2 meter.

What are the hours, can they change them when they feel like it?
23:00-07:00 = overnight
07:00-16:00 = off-peak
16:00-19:00 = peak
19:00-23:00 = off-peak

On 08/09/2019 22:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 20:37:13 +0100, wrote:

I've been very happy with Bulb and have been resisting posting a
referral link for them, but someone else has done it ...

Sorry I blinked first. B-)

a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak (31.58p) tariff if
you have a SMETS2 meter.

Hum, that really is starting to make finding the "best deal" rather
more complicated. You need to know your useage profile in relation to
when those rates apply, which gets even more complicated if the time
periods for each rate vary.

The periods are fixed (see my other reply).

Andy Burns brought next idea :
R D S wrote:

What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

elec 13.97p/kWh and 13.87p/day
gas 3.07p/kWh and 11.55p/day

(all inc VAT)
Utility Point, fixed for 18 months, no exit fees

That doesn't seem to be available now...

Cheapest MSE could find for me was
Outfox The Market FIX'D 19 2.0
E 13.545p 9.450p per day
G 2.751p 20.685p per day

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Utility Point, fixed for 18 months, no exit fees

That doesn't seem to be available now...

I only switched to it 5 weeks ago, but they seem to change rapidly

https://portal.utilitypoint.co.uk/OurTariffs

Outfox The Market

Bargepoles etc

On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 01:43:00 +0100, wrote:

you can choose a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p),
peak
(31.58p) tariff if you have a SMETS2 meter.

What are the hours, can they change them when they feel like it?

23:00-07:00 = overnight
07:00-16:00 = off-peak
16:00-19:00 = peak
19:00-23:00 = off-peak

Ta.

Thought so, the really expensive peak coincides with the time many
households will be back from work cooking dinner... OK not overly
relevant if you cook by gas but we don't have gas... Cooking takes
about 1.5 kWhrs on average.

A *very* quick play with a speadsheet results in the SMETS costing
£3.35/day, our current (but old, fixed) tariff £2.56/day and Bulb
current normal (12.79p/kWhr?) £2.72p/day. That's for the same hourly
load profile(*) for all tarrifs.

Take the 1.5 kWhr of cooking out and you get £2.87, £2.38 and
£2.53/day. So even with the cheap overnight and good value off-peak
those three hours of sodding expensive make a heck of a difference.

(*) Basically 1 kW except for 0200 - 0900 and 1.5 kWhr of cooking in
the peak period.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 08/09/2019 22:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 20:37:13 +0100, wrote:

I've been very happy with Bulb and have been resisting posting a
referral link for them, but someone else has done it ...

Sorry I blinked first. B-)

a 3-level overnight (8.58p), off-peak (12.5p), peak (31.58p) tariff if
you have a SMETS2 meter.

Hum, that really is starting to make finding the "best deal" rather
more complicated. You need to know your useage profile in relation to
when those rates apply, which gets even more complicated if the time
periods for each rate vary.


Bulb seem to offer that only to people with a /compatible/ SMETS2 meter,
and most aren't - not even ones they've been fitting! And the rates vary
around the country. See

https://bulb.co.uk/smart/

I might be interested as we are retired and most of our consumption
currently is outside the peak. But that may change when we drop gas
cooking. And then there's finding our SMETS2 meter is compatible.
Unclear if Bulb will say before one joins them.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Brian Gaff wrote on 08/09/2019 :
After all, All the electricity comes from the same generators down the same
wires, so its the admin and of course profit you pay for.

Plus the discounts they get from bulk fuel purchases, from the
suppliers. You would expect that the bigger the energy company, the
more discount they would get, the cheaper they can offer it to their
customers, but the reverse is true. The smaller the company, generally
the cheaper.

In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
R D S wrote:

What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

elec 13.97p/kWh and 13.87p/day
gas 3.07p/kWh and 11.55p/day

(all inc VAT)
Utility Point, fixed for 18 months, no exit fees


The best deal, of course, is going to depend on how much you use of
either. I use Flipper, and they have me with People's Energy.

Elec 12.41524 and 21.2
Gas 2.74857 and 21.2

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/09/2019 16:28, Andy Burns wrote:
Theo wrote:

Symbio 'Sunshine Saver August 19':
11.705p/kWh and standing charge 17p/day, fixed for 12 months until Aug
2020.

Presume they don't bother with comparison sites? also they don't seem to
do dual fuel.

They are showing on energyhelpline.co.uk.

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

World gas prices have collapsed this year -

https://www.energybrokers.co.uk/gas/...ice-data-graph

So how come retail gas and electricity prices haven't dropped ?.

On 08/09/2019 20:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
There are vast differences of course...
At first sight EDF might seem expensive, but..
265 units @ 24.55p = £65.06
255 units @ 4.54p = £11.58

Basically, in the Summer I lose due to the high cost of day units, but the
cheap night units during the winter gains me a lot as I am single fuel.

I'm sure they deliberately all make the tariffs so complex as to make it
impossible to compare like with like.
The other constraint I have is that many companies SAY they will do plain
text email billing and really send a reader out to read it foor the blind
but fail miserably, while EDF do seem to do as they say they will.



After all, All the electricity comes from the same generators down the same
wires, so its the admin and of course profit you pay for. I do feel some
only pay lip service to being disabled friendly as their admin is so poorly
funded.
Brian


Are there no battery storage systems which could be charged at night
and keep your essential summer stuff (PC,TV, kettle) going during the
day ?

On 09/09/2019 11:52, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Thought so, the really expensive peak coincides with the time many
households will be back from work cooking dinner... OK not overly
relevant if you cook by gas but we don't have gas... Cooking takes
about 1.5 kWhrs on average.

LPG cooker ??

On 09/09/2019 15:12, Andrew wrote:
On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but
paying OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

World gas prices have collapsed this year -

https://www.energybrokers.co.uk/gas/...ice-data-graph

So how come retail gas and electricity prices haven't dropped ?.

renewable energy in the case of electricity.

Gas puts energy on the grid at 4p a unit.

We pay 4 times that to pay for all the renewable **** on there as well.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 09/09/2019 15:27, Andrew wrote:
On 08/09/2019 20:17, Brian Gaff wrote:
There are vast differences of course...
At first sight EDF might seem expensive, but..
265 units @ 24.55p = £65.06
255 units @ 4.54pÂ* = £11.58

Basically, in the Summer I lose due to the high cost of day units, but
the
cheap night units during the winter gains me a lot as I am single fuel.

I'm sure they deliberately all make the tariffs so complex as to make it
impossible to compare like with like.
Â* The other constraint I have is thatÂ* many companies SAY they will do
plain
text email billing and really send a reader out to read it foor the blind
but fail miserably, while EDF do seem to do as they say they will.



After all, All the electricity comes from the same generators down the
same
wires, so its the admin andÂ* of course profit you pay for. I do feel some
only pay lip service to being disabled friendly as their admin is so
poorly
funded.
Â* Brian


Are there no battery storage systems which could be charged at night
and keep your essential summer stuff (PC,TV, kettle) going during the
day ?

I looked into that.

Usding cheap car batteries it would cost around £7000 to buy the kit and
I dont reckon the batteries would last more than ten years

Net loss.


--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

On 09/09/2019 14:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The best deal, of course, is going to depend on how much you use of
either.

That is why you can only make a price comparison with someone else if
your annual energy usage is near identical. Some tariffs (including
standing charges) may suit low energy users rather than high energy
users, and visa-versa. Some of the often recommended companies claiming
low costs and simple charging regimes (easy to understand bills) tend to
suit low energy users rather than those who have mid to high energy usage.

I use Flipper, and they have me with People's Energy.

Elec 12.41524 and 21.2
Gas 2.74857 and 21.2


As a matter of interest which algorithm do they use to select a new
supplier and when do they flip?

IMO the industry generally uses a misleading method of calculation to
determine savings, especially if you are already on a low tariff fixed
price contract. If you have six months left on the contract your
existing annual cost will be determined as 6 months at the low fixed
rate plus 6 months at the higher price "standard rate" from the same
company. This inflated cost will then be compared with, say, a new 12
month fixed price contract from a different company.

Do flipper use the same cost algorithm? If so do they flip perhaps 6
months into an existing contract (and probably get paid commission for
doing so) or do they wait a lot longer. Scottish Power used to claim
that changing during the contract period to another of their HIGHER
priced tariffs offered a cheaper option to the contract you were on -
BUT only because of the industry standard method of calculating the
current annual cost.

Do you actually check each time they flip that the new tariff gives you
lower or equal price energy for remaining length of your previous
contact?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 09/09/2019 11:52, Dave Liquorice wrote:
those three hours of sodding expensive make a heck of a difference.

Guy at work is buying a battery pack to deal with that... I asked him
various questions, but he seems to know what he's doing.

Andy

On 09/09/2019 15:31, Andrew wrote:
On 09/09/2019 11:52, Dave Liquorice wrote:
Thought so, the really expensive peak coincides with the time many
households will be back from work cooking dinner... OK not overly
relevant if you cook by gas but we don't have gas... Cooking takes
about 1.5 kWhrs on average.

LPG cooker ??

We had an LPG cooker for 5 years up until a couple of weeks back.

The induction hob is the best bit of the new kitchen. (The worst bit is
of course the damp floor...)

I _really_ don't miss that damn bottled gas thing.

Andy

Andrew wrote:
Are there no battery storage systems which could be charged at night
and keep your essential summer stuff (PC,TV, kettle) going during the
day ?

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/powerwall
and competitors for the shiny packaged end of the spectrum

https://secondlifestorage.com/
for folks doing it DIY

Theo

On 08/09/2019 14:54, R D S wrote:
What are you currently paying for a unit of electricity?

I don't get a hard on about switching and saving £2 per week but paying
OVO 17.5p per kwh which seems excessive.

11.2100 per unit here.

I've just switched from Utility Point to Green (or something like that)
using MSE's Cheap Energy Club comparison site. No cashback. I have
separate accounts for gas and electricity.

--
Oliver

alan_m wrote :
That is why you can only make a price comparison with someone else if your
annual energy usage is near identical.

You cannot even do that, because the cost varies depending on where you
live, your postcode - for the same product, from the same supplier.

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
alan_m wrote :
That is why you can only make a price comparison with someone else if your
annual energy usage is near identical.

You cannot even do that, because the cost varies depending on where you
live, your postcode - for the same product, from the same supplier.

The tariffs are region based (on the old electricity boards). So you can
compare with someone in the same region. (My Symbio quote was Eastern, BTW)

A lot of tariffs are M pence per unit plus C pence standing charge. This is
a straight line: y = Mx + C
where C is the y-intercept (the price you'd pay if consuming nothing).

You can plot these lines on a graph and compare them. This will tell you
how sensitive you are to consumption - which tariffs are cheapest for which
usage, and how much your usage can vary before you fall onto a less-good
tariff. You might find, though, that the amount of difference between the
top tariff and another 'good' one is fairly marginal.

Theo

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 09/09/2019 14:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The best deal, of course, is going to depend on how much you use of
either.

That is why you can only make a price comparison with someone else if
your annual energy usage is near identical. Some tariffs (including
standing charges) may suit low energy users rather than high energy
users, and visa-versa. Some of the often recommended companies claiming
low costs and simple charging regimes (easy to understand bills) tend to
suit low energy users rather than those who have mid to high energy
usage.

Quite.

I use Flipper, and they have me with People's Energy.

Elec 12.41524 and 21.2
Gas 2.74857 and 21.2


As a matter of interest which algorithm do they use to select a new
supplier and when do they flip?

I dunno. They say they check every month or so I'm on the best deal. What
attracted me is they charge up front for the service. Not concealed in the
form of commission. Nor do they take commission. Meaning (to me) my
interests are the primary one.

IMO the industry generally uses a misleading method of calculation to
determine savings, especially if you are already on a low tariff fixed
price contract. If you have six months left on the contract your
existing annual cost will be determined as 6 months at the low fixed
rate plus 6 months at the higher price "standard rate" from the same
company. This inflated cost will then be compared with, say, a new 12
month fixed price contract from a different company.

Do flipper use the same cost algorithm? If so do they flip perhaps 6
months into an existing contract (and probably get paid commission for
doing so)

I've been with them for a few years - not long after they started. Only
once been flipped at less than a year - think because there was a problem
with that supplier.


or do they wait a lot longer. Scottish Power used to claim
that changing during the contract period to another of their HIGHER
priced tariffs offered a cheaper option to the contract you were on -
BUT only because of the industry standard method of calculating the
current annual cost.

Do you actually check each time they flip that the new tariff gives you
lower or equal price energy for remaining length of your previous
contact?

No. If I thought myself capable of checking every single deal, I'd not pay
someone to do it for me.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.