I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

--
Graeme

On 06/09/19 13:32, Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

No. It will probably be the best OS choice you ever made.

https://distrowatch.com/ is your first port of call. It looks
daunting, and it is a bit, but spend some time looking through it and
what it offers, although you might not need to go further than this:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5/best-linux-distribution-for-a-toshiba-nb200-4175575280/

Note that there are some very good Linux NGs on Usenet, and some very
poor ones. The latter are best avoided. You'll soon find out which are
which!

--

Jeff

"Graeme" wrote in message
...

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and cannot
be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that could
replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although word
processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail not
required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


Linux Mint works ok on that spec
https://www.linuxmint.com/
or a browser that is still updated and works on XP
Mypal
https://www.softpedia.com/get/Intern...rs/Mypal.shtml

-

On 06/09/2019 13:32, Graeme wrote:

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.
Libre Office (previously Open office) has a version that works on Linux.
It is free.

https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/libreoffice/

mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Friday, 6 September 2019 13:32:28 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

There are 100s of linux distros, with a suitable one it should work very well. Mint is too fat for 1G of RAM, you'll want a lighter one.

Most linuxes now come with 'live,' meaning you can try them out by just booting direct from cd without installing a thing. Just bear in mind that reading everything from cd makes that very slow - once you decide one looks ok & install it you won't have that issue.

The only bit of the process that can catch the unfamiliar is setting up the hard disc. If it doesn't do all that automatically you might want us or someone else to walk you thru that bit. The rest is as easy as it gets.


NT

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:32:18 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

Have you tried OOI?

If you are going to wipe XP anyway, it might be worth trying W10 on
it. You can install it using a W7 if you happen to have one unused.
;-)

The W10 media can be downloaded for free with the 'Windows 10 media
creation tool' and can be put onto a USB stick (by the tool):


It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

There is no Linux that can 'replace Windows' for many people but it
can be a solution for some [1] (especially if your list below is
complete).

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

Sounds like what this Windows XP machine is still doing pretty well
(plus loads more). ;-)


This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom™ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB

maximum expandability : 2,048 MB

It would be interesting to know if it has been expanded as the Atom
(single core, 32bit) isn't fast and 2GB of RAM would help.

technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

Depends on how much fun you will get out of trying (or not). I would,
just 'because', especially if you haven't played with Linux before.

I think the 32bit Linux Mint with the MATE desktop would be a good
starting point:

https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=270

Specifically:

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/w...mate-32bit.iso

Download the file and then use a 'burner' to create a bootable USB
stick (or DVD if you have an external DVD ROM drive to boot from),
something like this:

https://www.balena.io/etcher/

Once done, boot the Netbook with the USB stick plugged in and if it
doesn't boot from it automagically, you may have to access the boot
menu and select the USB stick (pressing F11 or summat at boot time).
If you can't find a popup boot menu, you can go into the BIOS and
change the boot order to put the USB stick before the hard drive.

Cheers, T i m

[1] I've just reverted a laptop back to W10 for a friend who has been
running the Linux I installed for him for 6 months or so. Ok, he is
fairly old and most of the reason for going back is all the stuff he
couldn't do on Linux he could do easily on Windows (his main video
editing machine is W10, as is his 'second' PC). I did offer to try to
find Linux equivalents for the Windows only things he wanted but in
the end, it was all too much for him. W10 installed automagically and
without the need to install a single driver and it all 'just worked'
(and authenticated automatically because it previously had W10 on it).

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, 6 September 2019 13:32:28 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom™ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

There are 100s of linux distros, with a suitable one it should work very well. Mint is too fat for 1G of RAM, you'll want a lighter one.

It may have 2GB if upgraded so that would help a bit, as might a SSD?

Most linuxes now come with 'live,' meaning you can try them out by just booting direct from cd

Not so easy on a Netbook, well not without an external optical drive.
;-)

without installing a thing.

That bits true and very handy (I did so tonight).

Just bear in mind that reading everything from cd makes that very slow - once you decide one looks ok & install it you won't have that issue.

A USB 2/3 pen drive in a USB2/3 port can be quite quick though.

The only bit of the process that can catch the unfamiliar is setting up the hard disc. If it doesn't do all that automatically you might want us or someone else to walk you thru that bit.

On a 160GB hdd I might make 40G for the root, 100G for /home and
what's left for swap?

The rest is as easy as it gets.

It certainly can be, depending on how lucky you are (eg, if you
haven't gone out and bought 'Linux compatible' hardware and are just
using stuff that was 'Designed for Windows').

Even sound and network are pretty automagic these days but you can
still come a cropper installing even 'Recommended' drivers for the
graphics and unless you are a Linux geek, it's often easier / quicker
to re-install (and not touch the graphics) than try to get out of that
sort of situation (when it won't boot back into the GUI).

It is pretty good and quite rewarding when it works though, as long as
you can get away without any 'Windows only' software (and I don't
consider WINE or especially running a Windows VM as getting away from
Windows.

Dual booting is also quite easy and you can use Linux to manage all of
that (including shrinking the Windows partitions) to do it. Best of
both worlds. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Friday, 6 September 2019 22:39:31 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 12:52:38 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 6 September 2019 13:32:28 UTC+1, Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

There are 100s of linux distros, with a suitable one it should work very well. Mint is too fat for 1G of RAM, you'll want a lighter one.

It may have 2GB if upgraded so that would help a bit, as might a SSD?

Mint's too fat for 2G RAM, and way too fat for 1G. 2G will work ok if you have an SSD for swap space, but a hdd bogs down badly. The OP has a hdd & 1 or 2G RAM, so mint I can't recommend. Yes it'd work, but it would run out of ram repeatedly.


Most linuxes now come with 'live,' meaning you can try them out by just booting direct from cd

Not so easy on a Netbook, well not without an external optical drive.
;-)

I missed that somehow

without installing a thing.

That bits true and very handy (I did so tonight).

Just bear in mind that reading everything from cd makes that very slow - once you decide one looks ok & install it you won't have that issue.

A USB 2/3 pen drive in a USB2/3 port can be quite quick though.

The only bit of the process that can catch the unfamiliar is setting up the hard disc. If it doesn't do all that automatically you might want us or someone else to walk you thru that bit.

On a 160GB hdd I might make 40G for the root, 100G for /home and
what's left for swap?

The rest is as easy as it gets.

It certainly can be, depending on how lucky you are (eg, if you
haven't gone out and bought 'Linux compatible' hardware and are just
using stuff that was 'Designed for Windows').

Even sound and network are pretty automagic these days but you can
still come a cropper installing even 'Recommended' drivers for the
graphics and unless you are a Linux geek, it's often easier / quicker
to re-install (and not touch the graphics) than try to get out of that
sort of situation (when it won't boot back into the GUI).

It is pretty good and quite rewarding when it works though, as long as
you can get away without any 'Windows only' software (and I don't
consider WINE or especially running a Windows VM as getting away from
Windows.

Dual booting is also quite easy and you can use Linux to manage all of
that (including shrinking the Windows partitions) to do it. Best of
both worlds. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

You're overthinking it. Linux has come a long way from the days when not much hardware worked with it, most now does, but not all. Wine covers most of the few edge cases where there is no linux app.

But the point of 100s of distros is this: if one doesn't work, just stick another disc/distro in. There's not much point mucking about with them these days.


NT

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

It may have 2GB if upgraded so that would help a bit, as might a SSD?

Mint's too fat for 2G RAM, and way too fat for 1G. 2G will work ok if you have an SSD for swap space,

I thought you turned off swap if you were running an SSD?

but a hdd bogs down badly. The OP has a hdd & 1 or 2G RAM, so mint I can't recommend. Yes it'd work, but it would run out of ram repeatedly.

Depending on what he was doing with it ... and on a single core Atom,
probably 'not much'?


snip

You're overthinking it.

I don't think so.

Linux has come a long way from the days when not much hardware worked with it, most now does, but not all.

Quite, like I said. ;-)

Wine covers most of the few edge cases where there is no linux app.

I'd disagree. Every time I go to use WINE I read the reviews and see
that if it works at all, it often works with numerous restrictions and
gotchas (like you have to run an old version of something).

The bottom line ... if you want / need to run a Windows app, run
Windows. ;-)

Pan is a reasonable copy of Agent but no cigar. There isn't really a
Linux replacement for Irfanview and the list really does go on (and
that's without touching games).

But the point of 100s of distros is this: if one doesn't work, just stick another disc/distro in.

But whilst there are 'hundreds of distros', they are mainly based on
just a few main distros, like Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Slackware and
Gentoo etc. All the rest are really respins of the GNU bit, still
sharing the base kernel.

There's not much point mucking about with them these days.

See above.

If you have a really low spec machine then things like Puppy would
often run ok but then they are a bit 'weird' and further away from the
simple Windows experience many are used to.

When visiting EVERY Linux machine I have provided to others, there
will be Windows apps in the download folder because most users who
would actually benefit from the durability of Linux, don't understand
how it's not Windows and why they can't do what the do on Windows.

Part of why it's 'durable' is it becomes more of an appliance,
discouraging the users from fiddling with the systems and causing
'finger trouble'.

Part of the reason I haven't upgraded this XP machine is because of
the *myriad* of small apps and utilities I have found / installed over
the years and would have to re-find / install on any replacement.

Cheers, T i m

In message , T i m
writes

Part of the reason I haven't upgraded this XP machine is because of
the *myriad* of small apps and utilities I have found / installed over
the years and would have to re-find / install on any replacement.

There have been some informative replies - thank you.

However, Mark says just use Mypal browser, T i m says he still happily
uses XP, so why would I bother replacing XP with any version of Linux if
XP still works and is still 'safe' to use, perhaps within limitations?
--
Graeme

On Saturday, 7 September 2019 02:45:14 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 17:14:30 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

It may have 2GB if upgraded so that would help a bit, as might a SSD?

Mint's too fat for 2G RAM, and way too fat for 1G. 2G will work ok if you have an SSD for swap space,

I thought you turned off swap if you were running an SSD?

Mint on 1G ram and no swap file? I don't think so


but a hdd bogs down badly. The OP has a hdd & 1 or 2G RAM, so mint I can't recommend. Yes it'd work, but it would run out of ram repeatedly.

Depending on what he was doing with it ... and on a single core Atom,
probably 'not much'?

not much can still run it out of 1G once a net browser is fired up


You're overthinking it.

I don't think so.

Linux has come a long way from the days when not much hardware worked with it, most now does, but not all.

Quite, like I said. ;-)

Wine covers most of the few edge cases where there is no linux app.

I'd disagree. Every time I go to use WINE I read the reviews and see
that if it works at all, it often works with numerous restrictions and
gotchas (like you have to run an old version of something).

The bottom line ... if you want / need to run a Windows app, run
Windows. ;-)

'ang on. One does not often need to use wine at all. If you do it usually works ok.


Pan is a reasonable copy of Agent but no cigar. There isn't really a
Linux replacement for Irfanview and the list really does go on (and
that's without touching games).

funny! Gimp does what Irfan does & way more.
Linux is not currently a games oriented OS. There's steam, but if you're a hardcore gamer, either dual boot or find soething useful to do with life.


But the point of 100s of distros is this: if one doesn't work, just stick another disc/distro in.

But whilst there are 'hundreds of distros', they are mainly based on
just a few main distros, like Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Slackware and
Gentoo etc. All the rest are really respins of the GNU bit, still
sharing the base kernel.

There's not much point mucking about with them these days.

See above.

overthinking/misleading. Just use another disc & it usually works fine.


If you have a really low spec machine then things like Puppy would
often run ok but then they are a bit 'weird' and further away from the
simple Windows experience many are used to.

Last time I used Puppy & similar (on a 433 IIRC), they were simple windows-like experience. You don't need minimal distros for 1G & 1.66GHz, so it's immaterial.


When visiting EVERY Linux machine I have provided to others, there
will be Windows apps in the download folder because most users who
would actually benefit from the durability of Linux, don't understand
how it's not Windows and why they can't do what the do on Windows.

newbs do that sometimes. Better to use apps from the repository that do the same job.


Part of why it's 'durable' is it becomes more of an appliance,
discouraging the users from fiddling with the systems and causing
'finger trouble'.

there's seldom any need

Part of the reason I haven't upgraded this XP machine is because of
the *myriad* of small apps and utilities I have found / installed over
the years and would have to re-find / install on any replacement.

Cheers, T i m


NT

As a matter of interest which bit is Windows 7 not liking? I have run it on
2 gigs of ram on similar spec machines though needed a bios chip update to
do it. Not superfast of course and the hd is a bit small for this, you can
probably change that.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 06/09/19 13:32, Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® AtomT processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?

No. It will probably be the best OS choice you ever made.

https://distrowatch.com/ is your first port of call. It looks daunting,
and it is a bit, but spend some time looking through it and what it
offers, although you might not need to go further than this:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5/best-linux-distribution-for-a-toshiba-nb200-4175575280/

Note that there are some very good Linux NGs on Usenet, and some very poor
ones. The latter are best avoided. You'll soon find out which are which!

--

Jeff

On 06/09/2019 13:32, Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.


snip

A waste of time?


Perhaps a fun thing would be to put an x86 build of Android on it

However, It is not going to be great (windows or linux) for any general
purpose use, given that web sites are laden with lots of scripting that
will choke the CPU, never mind about playing back active content and videos.

Also the battery will be on the way out.

What it will be great at though, is dedication to a fixed task. It has
low mains power requirements, so can be left on 24/7.

So loads of tasks, but when I started making a short list, e.g.

CCTV, file server, private cloud, VPN endpoint, weather station,
thin client ..

I realised that they are in the geek-o-sphere that normally would be
satisfied by a raspberry-pi.

So think of it as a raspberry-pi with an attached screen, and chase one
of those projects for interest sake...

Or, place it very slowly and carefully in the bin.

--
Adrian C

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 01:38:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

The bottom line ... if you want / need to run a Windows app, run
Windows. ;-)

'ang on.

... To what you've got ...

One does not often need to use wine at all. If you do it usually works ok.

Ok, that's *your* experience or the experience of all those who try to
use it but find they can't.

And I think it comes down to what you consider to be 'running ok'?

Here is the top Platinum game running under WINE:

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManag...823&sAllBug s

You might consider that 'fine', I don't.


Pan is a reasonable copy of Agent but no cigar. There isn't really a
Linux replacement for Irfanview and the list really does go on (and
that's without touching games).

funny!

Fact.

Gimp does what Irfan does & way more.

Yeah, like Photoshop does more than GIMP and they are both *way* more
complicated than Irfanview for the basic things most people want to do
(resize, rotate, re-rez etc), which was the point you missed. It's not
always about what the app / OS can do, but how easy people find it to
do the things *they* (not you) want.

Linux is not currently a games oriented OS.

And with the failure of the 'Steam Engine', unlikely to ever be.

There's steam, but if you're a hardcore gamer, either dual boot

Depending if you have a reason to be in Linux in the first place you
mean?

or find soething useful to do with life.

Typical Linux fanboy response. If it doesn't work on Linux you don't
want / need it ... and why Linux hasn't replaced Windows, even though
it has had several chances.

The likes of Mint (and Ubuntu before the Unity debacle) have made
(miniscule) inroads into the Windows userbase because they look and
feel very familiar to Windows users. Every new release comes with more
GUI applets looking more and more like the Windows control panel and
minimising the need for the user to enter the CLI, just to do
something 'simple'. They often CGAS if it was Linux, Windows or OSX
under the DE, as long as it works and they can work it.

Slowly but surely (but still too slowly) Mint (for example) is looking
and working (from the user POV) more like what Windows has been for 25
years.


But the point of 100s of distros is this: if one doesn't work, just stick another disc/distro in.

But whilst there are 'hundreds of distros', they are mainly based on
just a few main distros, like Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Slackware and
Gentoo etc. All the rest are really respins of the GNU bit, still
sharing the base kernel.

There's not much point mucking about with them these days.

See above.

overthinking/misleading. Just use another disc & it usually works fine.

BS. What you aren't doing is 'thinking enough' about what you are
saying (classic Linux fanboy denial, when it suits).

I can say that because I've been there and done it. I have downloaded
and burnt *hundreds* of Linux CD's (and USB sticks) and carry a
Multiboot Linux pendrive in my pocket all the time. I *know* that if a
respin has the same kernel and if that kernel has an issue with some
hardware than all of them will fail equally, irrespective of what the
respin happens to be called.


If you have a really low spec machine then things like Puppy would
often run ok but then they are a bit 'weird' and further away from the
simple Windows experience many are used to.

Last time I used Puppy & similar (on a 433 IIRC), they were simple windows-like experience.

Because it has a GUI you mean, that's about as close to a 'Windows
-like' experience as it gets. It's funny, everyone but you accepts
that Puppy, whilst very good on low spec machines is far from
'conventional', even for Linux.

You don't need minimal distros for 1G & 1.66GHz, so it's immaterial.

I know, it was an example, that's what the 'if' meant in my statement.


When visiting EVERY Linux machine I have provided to others, there
will be Windows apps in the download folder because most users who
would actually benefit from the durability of Linux, don't understand
how it's not Windows and why they can't do what the do on Windows.

newbs do that sometimes.

Some will do that continuously, in the same way they will repeat the
same step over and over in the hope that it will eventually work.

Better to use apps from the repository that do the same job.

Of course, if there is such a thing but there often isn't.


Part of why it's 'durable' is it becomes more of an appliance,
discouraging the users from fiddling with the systems and causing
'finger trouble'.

there's seldom any need

I know, I was talking about the user, not the OS.

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 09:04:36 +0100, Graeme
wrote:

In message , T i m
writes

Part of the reason I haven't upgraded this XP machine is because of
the *myriad* of small apps and utilities I have found / installed over
the years and would have to re-find / install on any replacement.

There have been some informative replies - thank you.

However, Mark says just use Mypal browser,

(I'll have a look at that myself but I can't say I've had any real
issues with Firefox? It can do Youtube and all the websites I visit so
.... ?)

T i m says he still happily
uses XP,

It is now running slower, mostly because it's a *very* mature system
and secondly because it's only on 100G of a 160G drive (the other 60
being OSX) and I'm constantly having to prune stuff out to make any
sort of space.

so why would I bother replacing XP with any version of Linux if
XP still works and is still 'safe' to use, perhaps within limitations?

I think that might be the biggest issue for most, the thought of
'security'. But then some are paranoid about all that or are looking
out for the black helecopters. ;-)

I run a software firewall (Zonealarm) and AVG AV and give it a scan
with that, Malwarebytes and Superantispyware every now and again
('just because').

I do have an equally silent, equally low power compact PC running W10
that I built to replace this MacMini ... I just don't seem to be able
to get round to actually replacing it (but is running upstairs
alongside 3 other PC's via a 4 way KVMA switch).

XP *will* run faster in less memory than most recent Lini and probably
do more when it's running than 'most people' can do with Linux, if you
aren't familiar with Linux especially.

And even XP has the option to apply updates automatically. ;-)

But if you want to play (and I'd like to if that were my Netbook),
boot a Linux on a USB stick and just see how you get on. If it works
(audio, video, WiFi etc) you could install it alongside XP and can
then choose either at boot time?

Cheers, T i m

On 06/09/2019 21:04, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:32:18 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

Have you tried OOI?

If you are going to wipe XP anyway, it might be worth trying W10 on
it. You can install it using a W7 if you happen to have one unused.
;-)

The W10 media can be downloaded for free with the 'Windows 10 media
creation tool' and can be put onto a USB stick (by the tool):

You can install from that even without a key - it will run and have a
warning in the corner of the screen, but still work ok. Certainly
adequate for testing to see what the performance is like.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Perhaps a fun thing would be to put an x86 build of Android on it

Not really - potential driver hassles (is there graphics acceleration that
Android needs?) and it has no touch screen, which would make it a pain. And
apps which are built for ARM only might not work.

So think of it as a raspberry-pi with an attached screen, and chase one
of those projects for interest sake...

That's probably good advice. It's only 32 bit which would make running
mainstream distros increasingly annoying in future. But it's fine as an
embedded-thing-with-screen.

Theo

On 07/09/2019 14:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2019 21:04, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:32:18 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

Have you tried OOI?

If you are going to wipe XP anyway, it might be worth trying W10 on
it. You can install it using a W7 if you happen to have one unused.
;-)

The W10 media can be downloaded for free with the 'Windows 10 media
creation tool' and can be put onto a USB stick (by the tool):

You can install from that even without a key - it will run and have a
warning in the corner of the screen, but still work ok. Certainly
adequate for testing to see what the performance is like.





It will run quite well in 2g RAM and will even run in 1G but boot times
are quite slow.

I actually have win10 on a netbook and it runs but is slow due to it
being a !GHz AMD CPU. They are nowhere near as fast as an atom.

On 07/09/2019 19:41, dennis@home wrote:
On 07/09/2019 14:13, John Rumm wrote:
On 06/09/2019 21:04, T i m wrote:
On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:32:18 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

Have you tried OOI?

If you are going to wipe XP anyway, it might be worth trying W10 on
it. You can install it using a W7 if you happen to have one unused.
;-)

The W10 media can be downloaded for free with the 'Windows 10 media
creation tool' and can be put onto a USB stick (by the tool):

You can install from that even without a key - it will run and have a
warning in the corner of the screen, but still work ok. Certainly
adequate for testing to see what the performance is like.





It will run quite well in 2g RAM and will even run in 1G but boot times
are quite slow.

I actually have win10 on a netbook and it runs but is slow due to it
being a !GHz AMD CPU. They are nowhere near as fast as an atom.

Yup, if it looks like its going to work ok, then a cheap upgrade would
be to slap a SSD in there in place of the HDD (assuming its a SATA
interface on the drive).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/09/19 09:38, wrote:
On Saturday, 7 September 2019 02:45:14 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

Pan is a reasonable copy of Agent but no cigar. There isn't really a
Linux replacement for Irfanview and the list really does go on (and
that's without touching games).

funny! Gimp does what Irfan does & way more.

That's like telling someone to use Photoshop instead of Irfanview. The
nearest equivalent to Irfanview I've found in Linux is XnView. If he
wants, the OP can download the Windows version to try out.
https://www.xnview.com/en/

Last time I looked Irfanview would run under Wine.

--

Jeff

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 13:32:18 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

I take the view that the fewer people use XP, the less the hackers
have to gain, so probably don't even try any more.
--
Dave W

On 07/09/2019 19:18, Theo wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Perhaps a fun thing would be to put an x86 build of Android on it

Not really - potential driver hassles (is there graphics acceleration that
Android needs?) and it has no touch screen, which would make it a pain. And
apps which are built for ARM only might not work.

So think of it as a raspberry-pi with an attached screen, and chase one
of those projects for interest sake...

That's probably good advice. It's only 32 bit which would make running
mainstream distros increasingly annoying in future. But it's fine as an
embedded-thing-with-screen.

Theo

I'd stick the latest 32 bit linux on it, keep it up to date until 32 bit
support runs out, and then runs it till it dies.

Especially if its good enough to watch films on


--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On Saturday, 7 September 2019 11:44:00 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2019 01:38:51 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

The bottom line ... if you want / need to run a Windows app, run
Windows. ;-)

'ang on.

.. To what you've got ...

One does not often need to use wine at all. If you do it usually works ok.

Ok, that's *your* experience or the experience of all those who try to
use it but find they can't.

And I think it comes down to what you consider to be 'running ok'?

Here is the top Platinum game running under WINE:

https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManag...823&sAllBug s

You might consider that 'fine', I don't.


Pan is a reasonable copy of Agent but no cigar. There isn't really a
Linux replacement for Irfanview and the list really does go on (and
that's without touching games).

funny!

Fact.

Gimp does what Irfan does & way more.

Yeah, like Photoshop does more than GIMP and they are both *way* more
complicated than Irfanview for the basic things most people want to do
(resize, rotate, re-rez etc), which was the point you missed. It's not
always about what the app / OS can do, but how easy people find it to
do the things *they* (not you) want.

Linux is not currently a games oriented OS.

And with the failure of the 'Steam Engine', unlikely to ever be.

There's steam, but if you're a hardcore gamer, either dual boot

Depending if you have a reason to be in Linux in the first place you
mean?

or find soething useful to do with life.

Typical Linux fanboy response. If it doesn't work on Linux you don't
want / need it ... and why Linux hasn't replaced Windows, even though
it has had several chances.

The likes of Mint (and Ubuntu before the Unity debacle) have made
(miniscule) inroads into the Windows userbase because they look and
feel very familiar to Windows users. Every new release comes with more
GUI applets looking more and more like the Windows control panel and
minimising the need for the user to enter the CLI, just to do
something 'simple'. They often CGAS if it was Linux, Windows or OSX
under the DE, as long as it works and they can work it.

Slowly but surely (but still too slowly) Mint (for example) is looking
and working (from the user POV) more like what Windows has been for 25
years.


But the point of 100s of distros is this: if one doesn't work, just stick another disc/distro in.

But whilst there are 'hundreds of distros', they are mainly based on
just a few main distros, like Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Slackware and
Gentoo etc. All the rest are really respins of the GNU bit, still
sharing the base kernel.

There's not much point mucking about with them these days.

See above.

overthinking/misleading. Just use another disc & it usually works fine.

BS. What you aren't doing is 'thinking enough' about what you are
saying (classic Linux fanboy denial, when it suits).

I can say that because I've been there and done it. I have downloaded
and burnt *hundreds* of Linux CD's (and USB sticks) and carry a
Multiboot Linux pendrive in my pocket all the time. I *know* that if a
respin has the same kernel and if that kernel has an issue with some
hardware than all of them will fail equally, irrespective of what the
respin happens to be called.


If you have a really low spec machine then things like Puppy would
often run ok but then they are a bit 'weird' and further away from the
simple Windows experience many are used to.

Last time I used Puppy & similar (on a 433 IIRC), they were simple windows-like experience.

Because it has a GUI you mean, that's about as close to a 'Windows
-like' experience as it gets. It's funny, everyone but you accepts
that Puppy, whilst very good on low spec machines is far from
'conventional', even for Linux.

You don't need minimal distros for 1G & 1.66GHz, so it's immaterial.

I know, it was an example, that's what the 'if' meant in my statement.


When visiting EVERY Linux machine I have provided to others, there
will be Windows apps in the download folder because most users who
would actually benefit from the durability of Linux, don't understand
how it's not Windows and why they can't do what the do on Windows.

newbs do that sometimes.

Some will do that continuously, in the same way they will repeat the
same step over and over in the hope that it will eventually work.

Better to use apps from the repository that do the same job.

Of course, if there is such a thing but there often isn't.


Part of why it's 'durable' is it becomes more of an appliance,
discouraging the users from fiddling with the systems and causing
'finger trouble'.

there's seldom any need

I know, I was talking about the user, not the OS.

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

just not worth replying to is it.

Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.

On 08/09/2019 08:47, Brian Reay wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.


You serious?

Running a Mint desktop with browser or multimedia features is going to
be painful.

The default Cinnamon desktop on mint is heavy, XCFE would be a better
choice.

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3788
Linux Mint 19.2 €œTina€� Xfce

and that is a slow 32-bit 2.5 Watt consuming CPU strapped with not much
memory, that would ordinarily end up in a mobile phone or tablet.

There are far more capable laptops thrown away daily by businesses that
are better installation candidates.

For some of my puppet stuff, I use a small stack of 8 year old Lenovo
Core2Duo based laptops with a common docking station (R61, T400,
T500...), I get them for less than £50, even £30 - though had to unlock
the BIOS on that. They are fast enough to run the latest server windows
operating systems, and full bloat Windows 10, never mind about Linux.

--
Adrian C

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)


just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows). The one that only uses Linux has it on the
laptop (I gave him) and the desktop (I originally built for him on
XP).

The desktop is down and currently awaiting my attention. He has a
habit of forgetting to shut his machines down and just turning them
off at the wall and it seems Linux is less tolerant of that than
Windows was. The last time he did it I went there and booted from a
Linux CD (I left with him) and I think Gparted sorted it (or
somesuch). Windows would generally go into Safe mode and I could get
him to run and I could connect via Teamviewer and run some diagnostics
for him. Not quite so easy from a failed Linux boot and whilst talking
a noob though it over the phone.

On one hand, Linux appears to be more robust (especially from malware
etc) but from my observation it's mainly because people can't are
aren't so inclined to fiddle with it (or if they try, by downloading
and installing a Windows app, nothing happens).

A big problem is when it goes wrong there are fewer people about to
help fix it.

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 07:47:59 +0000 (UTC), Brian Reay
wrote:

snip

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

Not all versions of 'Mint' are though (LMDE) as that's directly based
on Debian (as is std Mint / Ubuntu (directly and patched ~90%) of
course).


Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)


just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows).


Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isnt difficult.

Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 08/09/2019 08:47, Brian Reay wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.


You serious?

Running a Mint desktop with browser or multimedia features is going to
be painful.

The default Cinnamon desktop on mint is heavy, XCFE would be a better
choice.

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3788
Linux Mint 19.2 €œTina€� Xfce

Did I mention he should use a particular desktop?



and that is a slow 32-bit 2.5 Watt consuming CPU strapped with not much
memory, that would ordinarily end up in a mobile phone or tablet.

There are far more capable laptops thrown away daily by businesses that
are better installation candidates.

For some of my puppet stuff, I use a small stack of 8 year old Lenovo
Core2Duo based laptops with a common docking station (R61, T400,
T500...), I get them for less than £50, even £30 - though had to unlock
the BIOS on that. They are fast enough to run the latest server windows
operating systems, and full bloat Windows 10, never mind about Linux.


He isnt running multi media.

Nor has he got one of the machines offices throw out.

Perhaps you should read the question before trying to be clever.

On 08/09/2019 08:47, Brian Reay wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows? Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard disk capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.



Any modern distro will struggle a bit on 1GB RAM. Things like web
browser eat up half of that instantly. I did manage tio get an Asus
netbook to run Mint on 512MB.


Try and get it up to two, and regard it as 'one program at a time'

If you want it faster get an SSD and cionfigure about 4GB as swap.
It will stop te machine getting so bogged if it runs out of RAM.

It will be usable, but not a lot of fun on an ATOM.,

I reccomend mint MATE (or Xfce).

https://www.linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=270

If it has a bootable DVD drive download that, burn a DVD, boot from it
and see how well the machine responds. If it feels OK clck on install
and erase everything on the disk, for that orgasmic feeling of having
kicked Bill Gates in the nuts.



--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 08/09/2019 10:15, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 08/09/2019 08:47, Brian Reay wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows?Â* Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard diskÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended
machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.


You serious?

Running a Mint desktop with browser or multimedia features is going to
be painful.

The default Cinnamon desktop on mint is heavy, XCFE would be a better
choice.


Or MATE, Ive run Mate on 512MB and an atom. Gets there in the end.

Â*https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3788
Â*Linux Mint 19.2 €œTina€� Xfce

and that is a slow 32-bit 2.5 Watt consuming CPU strapped with not much
memory, that would ordinarily end up in a mobile phone or tablet.

There are far more capable laptops thrown away daily by businesses that
are better installation candidates.

yes, but that one is still is OK tho.

For some of my puppet stuff, I use a small stack of 8 year old Lenovo
Core2Duo based laptops with a common docking station (R61, T400,
T500...), I get them for less than £50, even £30 - though had to unlock
the BIOS on that. They are fast enough to run the latest server windows
operating systems, and full bloat Windows 10, never mind about Linux.



--
€œIt is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.€�

ۥ Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

On 08/09/2019 10:53, Brian Reay wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)


just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows).


Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isnt difficult.

Installing linux isn't the problem.
Its that the people don't want the linux apps.

On 08/09/2019 10:15, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 08/09/2019 08:47, Brian Reay wrote:
Graeme wrote:

I have one of the above which was often useful, but now lives in a
cupboard because it runs XP Home, which is no longer 'secure', and
cannot be upgraded to W7 or above.

It occurs that perhaps there is an up to date version of Linux that
could replace Windows?Â* Linux 'Lite' or something?

Only really needs to be able to connect and load a browser, although
word processing and spreadsheets (doc and xls) would be useful, but mail
not required.

This is the basic spec.

type : Intel® Atom„¢ processor N280
clock speed : 1.66 GHz
Front Side Bus : 667 MHz
2nd level cache : 512 KB

standard : 1,024 MB
maximum expandability : 2,048 MB
technology : DDR2 RAM (800 MHz)

Hard diskÂ*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* capacity : 160 GB
certification : S.M.A.R.T.
drive rotation : 5,400 rpm

A waste of time?


That should run Linux, certainly for the applications you mentioned.

The HDD is more than enough, you need far less and Ive run systems for
special purposes with 40G disks I had laying around.

As for the version, it rather depends. Linux users have their favourites
and can be quite passionate about them. I favour Linux Mint and recommend
it. I also like Sci Linux but that is more specialised.

You can check the latest version of Linux Mint and the recommended
machine
required but Ive certainly run early versions on similar spec machines
without problems.

Mint is easy to install, the user interface is similar to Windows, but it
tends to run faster on a given machine. Ive always found it very stable.

Like many versions of Linux, it is based on the Ubuntu distribution.

It comes with Libre Office, which is an excellent office suite compatible
with MS Office etc.


You serious?

Of course he is serious, he will be comparing win8 with it as win8 is
probably the slowest windows ever.
Its like TNP he never compares win10 with linux as its actually less
resource hungry and runs better on most machines than mint.

On 08/09/2019 13:25, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/09/2019 10:53, Brian Reay wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)


just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows).


Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isnt difficult.

Installing linux isn't the problem.
Its that the people don't want the linux apps.


Whether someone likes a particular 'app' is a matter of choice/taste.
Some 'swear by' MS Office, others by Libre Office, some by the Mac
Office Suite etc.

The OP wanted to run a browser and open spreadsheets. He could do that
with Linux using a browser of his choice and Libre Office.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:53:08 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

snip

Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isn’t difficult.

Installing linux isn't the problem.
Its that the people don't want the linux apps.


Whether someone likes a particular 'app' is a matter of choice/taste.

Then why did you jump in trying to suggest *I* wasn't 'doing it'
properly (apart from that being your MO etc)?

Some 'swear by' MS Office, others by Libre Office, some by the Mac
Office Suite etc.

NONE of the people in the count above 'swear by anything' and will use
whatever works *and they can work* sufficiently well to do what they
want. What they don't want is to spend any more than the minimum
amount of time 'Learning Linux' or even an alternative solution,
especially *for no reason*.

The OP wanted to run a browser and open spreadsheets. He could do that
with Linux using a browser of his choice and Libre Office.

Or a WP suite of his choice even?

And he may well, until something goes wrong, then who is he going to
turn to, *friendly* Linux fanboys like you?

Or what of those Windows only apps that he might just like, let alone
need / prefer to run ... make things even more complicated by add WINE
or VM's to the mix?

But no, a distro like Mint, if it runs on that hardware in a way that
is tolerable to the OP and all he needs is what he has stated, could
well be a good use of that Netbook. Well, better than it just sitting
unused in the loft.

If he actually wanted to use it for everything (spec considered) he
might find W10 would run on it as well as Mint ...

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/wind...specifications

.... and be more compatible with the rest of the world, something you
Brexiteers should be keen on. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 08/09/2019 13:53, Brian Reay wrote:
On 08/09/2019 13:25, dennis@home wrote:
On 08/09/2019 10:53, Brian Reay wrote:
T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

You fanboys are such hard work aren't you. ;-)


just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows).


Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isnt
difficult.

Installing linux isn't the problem.
Its that the people don't want the linux apps.


Whether someone likes a particular 'app' is a matter of choice/taste.
Some 'swear by' MS Office, others by Libre Office, some by the Mac
Office Suite etc.

The OP wanted to run a browser and open spreadsheets. He could do that
with Linux using a browser of his choice and Libre Office.

And there's a choice oif 3 browsers at least - chromium, firefox and
Opera...plus some others less well known.

And open office or libre office.

--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 11:51:44 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
snip


If it has a bootable DVD drive

It's a Netbook, what do you think?

download that, burn a DVD, boot from it
and see how well the machine responds. If it feels OK clck on install
and erase everything on the disk,

Or install Linux alongside Windows, a much safer / better option
(especially in 160GB and to be used as a WP / web terminal).

for that orgasmic feeling of having
kicked Bill Gates in the nuts.

Until you realise that XP was actually quicker and better (because you
can run what you know on it), then he will be going back to Uncle Bill
for a big portion of humble pie for no reason.

Even you rely on Windows to do things you can't do any other way
(hypocrite).

I wonder what it is that makes people like you ignore things like 80%
of the desktop using market are perfectly happy using Windows ... or
the 66% who were perfectly happy with us in the EU ... ?

Those majorities are all wrong I'm guessing?

Cheers, T i m

On 08/09/2019 16:01, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:53:08 +0100, Brian Reay wrote:

snip

Perhaps you need to learn how to do it properly then. It isnt difficult.

Installing linux isn't the problem.
Its that the people don't want the linux apps.


Whether someone likes a particular 'app' is a matter of choice/taste.

Then why did you jump in trying to suggest *I* wasn't 'doing it'
properly (apart from that being your MO etc)?

Some 'swear by' MS Office, others by Libre Office, some by the Mac
Office Suite etc.

NONE of the people in the count above 'swear by anything' and will use
whatever works *and they can work* sufficiently well to do what they
want. What they don't want is to spend any more than the minimum
amount of time 'Learning Linux' or even an alternative solution,
especially *for no reason*.

The OP wanted to run a browser and open spreadsheets. He could do that
with Linux using a browser of his choice and Libre Office.

Or a WP suite of his choice even?

And he may well, until something goes wrong, then who is he going to
turn to, *friendly* Linux fanboys like you?

Or what of those Windows only apps that he might just like, let alone
need / prefer to run ... make things even more complicated by add WINE
or VM's to the mix?

But no, a distro like Mint, if it runs on that hardware in a way that
is tolerable to the OP and all he needs is what he has stated, could
well be a good use of that Netbook. Well, better than it just sitting
unused in the loft.

If he actually wanted to use it for everything (spec considered) he
might find W10 would run on it as well as Mint ...

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/wind...specifications

... and be more compatible with the rest of the world, something you
Brexiteers should be keen on. ;-)

Cheers, T i m


You've gone all irrational, as usual.

On 08/09/2019 11:01, Brian Reay wrote:

The default Cinnamon desktop on mint is heavy, XCFE would be a better
choice.

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3788
Linux Mint 19.2 €œTina€� Xfce

Did I mention he should use a particular desktop?


No. You missed out, and that's absolutely of no use to the OP missing
out vital info like that - and then suggesting I should be censored for
being "clever".


and that is a slow 32-bit 2.5 Watt consuming CPU strapped with not much
memory, that would ordinarily end up in a mobile phone or tablet.

There are far more capable laptops thrown away daily by businesses that
are better installation candidates.


He isnt running multi media.

We don't know that, but I suspect. most folks might reasonably open up
youtube, a social network, email attachments etc...


Nor has he got one of the machines offices throw out.

Better value, this tat he has got possibly would be better recycled or
made into a single use thing. Otherwise a possible waste of time.


Perhaps you should read the question before trying to be clever.
Oh dear. You are the lunatic suggesting that this could be a usable Mint
desktop. LibreOffice?

The OP, if he is still about, might want to chip in here and let us know
which direction he could be taking this.

Or I may as well go back to reading Brexit on this group.

Thanks for playing.

--
Adrian C

On Sunday, 8 September 2019 10:35:06 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 00:03:07 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

just not worth replying to is it.

Well, not for you it isn't because you say anything to 'win' (as has
been pointed out elsewhere with your Gimp reply).

I have installed Linux for probably 20+ people now and only two of
them are still using it (and only one 'only' using Linux, the other
dual boots with Windows). The one that only uses Linux has it on the
laptop (I gave him) and the desktop (I originally built for him on
XP).

The desktop is down and currently awaiting my attention. He has a
habit of forgetting to shut his machines down and just turning them
off at the wall and it seems Linux is less tolerant of that than
Windows was. The last time he did it I went there and booted from a
Linux CD (I left with him) and I think Gparted sorted it (or
somesuch). Windows would generally go into Safe mode and I could get
him to run and I could connect via Teamviewer and run some diagnostics
for him. Not quite so easy from a failed Linux boot and whilst talking
a noob though it over the phone.

On one hand, Linux appears to be more robust (especially from malware
etc) but from my observation it's mainly because people can't are
aren't so inclined to fiddle with it (or if they try, by downloading
and installing a Windows app, nothing happens).

A big problem is when it goes wrong there are fewer people about to
help fix it.

Cheers, T i m

another post that's more bs thn the last one