On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

--

Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

Well that was a bit confused. in the last whole sentence I meant of
course that *radio wave* excited tags exist for some purposes where the
reader cannot be close enough to the tag for magnetic excitation.

--

Roger Hayter

On 22/08/2019 00:39, Roger Hayter wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

I think you are probably wrong on both counts these days.


--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are
not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag.

Doesn’t explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
That’s not a coil.

I also believe, but my knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags
exist for some purposes, but are not the common ones. ICBW

On 22/08/2019 01:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

Well that was a bit confused. in the last whole sentence I meant of
course that *radio wave* excited tags exist for some purposes where the
reader cannot be close enough to the tag for magnetic excitation.

Ultimately there is sod all difference.

Magnetic, capacitative or RF coupling are all just termns that are used
to ID what mode predominates. At a few feet at GHz frequecies its RF.
You are well into far field






--
€œThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

- Bertrand Russell

jeikppkywk wrote:

Doesn’t explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
That’s not a coil.

readable from up to 8m away, that's not near field.

On 22/08/2019 06:49, jeikppkywk wrote:


"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use
are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves.Â* In fact, if you have an RF magnetic fieldÂ* generated there will
be some EM radiation around.Â*Â* But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag.

Doesnt explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
Thats not a coil.

The lines between coils and antennae are blurred.

Ultimately when you do teh math omn EM radiation (and I did, once) what
pops out is thet 'capacitatative coupling' 'magnetic coupling;' ' RF
power transfer' are all really the same thing - explication of the
nasty tensor calculus that defines 'elecromagnetic fields'.

It is just that in some case you can use a simplified version and get
roughly the right answer and call that 'induction' or 'RF' or
'capacitative coupling'




--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 22/08/2019 07:15, Andy Burns wrote:
jeikppkywk wrote:

Doesnt explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
Thats not a coil.

readable from up to 8m away, that's not near field.

Do they go that far?

Impressive!

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

ۥ Confucius

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
jeikppkywk wrote:

Doesn’t explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
That’s not a coil.

readable from up to 8m away, that's not near field.

Still obviously RF and not magnetic field as dense claimed.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2019 06:49, jeikppkywk wrote:


"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use
are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag.

Doesnt explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
Thats not a coil.

The lines between coils and antennae are blurred.

Not with that one, there is no coil at all.

Ultimately when you do teh math omn EM radiation (and I did, once) what
pops out is thet 'capacitatative coupling' 'magnetic coupling;' ' RF power
transfer' are all really the same thing - explication of the nasty tensor
calculus that defines 'elecromagnetic fields'.

Irrelevant to whether that RFID has an antenna or a coil.

It is just that in some case you can use a simplified version and get
roughly the right answer and call that 'induction' or 'RF' or
'capacitative coupling'

Irrelevant to whether that RFID has an antenna or a coil.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 15:49:43 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


Doesn¢t explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
That¢s not a coil.

Oh, ****! You HAD to **** also in this thread! tsk

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 18:15:10 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


readable from up to 8m away, that's not near field.

Still obviously RF and not magnetic field as dense claimed.

Still obviously a self-opinionated self-important senile asshole, senile
Rodent!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Thu, 22 Aug 2019 18:31:17 +1000, jeikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

FLUSH the clinically insane auto-contradicting senile asshole's latest
auto-contradicting session

....and nothing's left!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/08/2019 01:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

Well that was a bit confused. in the last whole sentence I meant of
course that *radio wave* excited tags exist for some purposes where the
reader cannot be close enough to the tag for magnetic excitation.

Ultimately there is sod all difference.

Magnetic, capacitative or RF coupling are all just termns that are used
to ID what mode predominates. At a few feet at GHz frequecies its RF.
You are well into far field

But most RFID devices of the type we are talking about work at cm
distancess, or inside large coils. The ones that work at a few feet are
different.


--

Roger Hayter

On 22/08/2019 10:35, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/08/2019 01:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW

Well that was a bit confused. in the last whole sentence I meant of
course that *radio wave* excited tags exist for some purposes where the
reader cannot be close enough to the tag for magnetic excitation.

Ultimately there is sod all difference.

Magnetic, capacitative or RF coupling are all just termns that are used
to ID what mode predominates. At a few feet at GHz frequecies its RF.
You are well into far field

But most RFID devices of the type we are talking about work at cm
distancess, or inside large coils. The ones that work at a few feet are
different.



I'd ask what definition of "radio wave" Dennis was using. My OED gives
" an electromagnetic wave of the kind used for radio; a radio-frequency
wave". The latter part of that seems to guarantee it is apt for RFID.

And while in the OED, it has as an example of RFID from 2004

"...the microchips€”called Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) labels€”
remain active over a range of five metres once the product leaves the
store."



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 21/08/2019 23:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are
not powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?



Yes. you do know that communications and power are different?

On 22/08/2019 00:39, Roger Hayter wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves. In fact, if you have an RF magnetic field generated there will
be some EM radiation around. But I believe if is purely the near field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag. I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes, but
are not the common ones. ICBW


The newer UHF ones use RF for power, but they are not the common ones
that the BBC mentioned.

If we had ID cards then a UHF tag would be good as it would stop all
those people without and ID walking about if you put trackers around the
streets.

The RFID tags like in passports are useless for that sort of thing.

On 22/08/2019 10:52, Robin wrote:
On 22/08/2019 10:35, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/08/2019 01:06, Roger Hayter wrote:
Roger Hayter wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use
are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves.Â* In fact, if you have an RF magnetic fieldÂ* generated there
will
be some EM radiation around.Â*Â* But I believe if is purely the near
field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag.Â* I also believe, but my
knowledge is limited, that RF excited tags exist for some purposes,
but
are not the common ones.Â* ICBW

Well that was a bit confused.Â* in the last whole sentence I meant of
course that *radio wave* excited tags exist for some purposes where the
reader cannot be close enough to the tag for magnetic excitation.

Ultimately there is sod all difference.

Magnetic, capacitative or RF couplingÂ* are all just termns that are used
to ID what mode predominates. At a few feet at GHz frequecies its RF.
You are well into far field

But most RFID devices of the type we are talking about work at cm
distancess, or inside large coils.Â* The ones that work at a few feet are
different.



I'd ask what definition of "radio wave" Dennis was using.Â* My OED gives
" an electromagnetic wave of the kind used for radio; a radio-frequency
wave".Â* The latter part of that seems to guarantee it is apt for RFID.

And while in the OED, it has as an example of RFID from 2004

"...the microchips€”called Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) labels€”
remain active over a range of five metres once the product leaves the
store."




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...and_far_fields

On 22/08/2019 09:31, jeikppkywk wrote:


Not with that one, there is no coil at all.

Want to explain patch antennae rod?

On 22/08/2019 09:15, jeikppkywk wrote:


"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
jeikppkywk wrote:

Doesnt explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
Thats not a coil.

readable from up to 8m away, that's not near field.

Still obviously RF and not magnetic field as dense claimed.
RF is magnetic as well, Bur its not predominantly magnetic


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 22/08/2019 09:31, jeikppkywk wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2019 06:49, jeikppkywk wrote:


"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use
are not
powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?

Radio frequency does not necessarily imply radio (electromagnetic)
waves.Â* In fact, if you have an RF magnetic fieldÂ* generated there will
be some EM radiation around.Â*Â* But I believe if is purely the near
field
magnetic induction at RF that excites the tag.

Doesnt explain the obvious RF antenna in the pic someone posted.
Thats not a coil.

The lines between coils and antennae are blurred.

Not with that one, there is no coil at all.

Ultimately when you do teh math omn EM radiation (and I did, once)
what pops out is thet 'capacitatative coupling' 'magnetic coupling;' '
RF power transfer' are all reallyÂ* the same thing - explication of the
nasty tensor calculus that defines 'elecromagnetic fields'.

Irrelevant to whether that RFID has an antenna or a coil.
Actually not, but I noticed you didnt underand what I was saying so I'll
stop there


It is just that in some case you can use a simplified version and get
roughly the right answer and call that 'induction' or 'RF' or
'capacitative coupling'

Irrelevant to whether that RFID has an antenna or a coil.


--
Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

"dennis@home" wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2019 09:31, jeikppkywk wrote:


Not with that one, there is no coil at all.

Want to explain patch antennae ?

Thats not a coil, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 06:40:29 +1000, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew
pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:


Want to explain patch antennae ?

That¢s not a coil, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

You can shove your coil, like everything else, up your senile arse, senile
asshole!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 22/08/2019 14:51, dennis@home wrote:
On 21/08/2019 23:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/08/2019 13:16, dennis@home wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48859331

Someone really should tell them that the normal RFID tags in use are
not powered by radio waves.

You do know what the RF in RFID stands for don't you?



Yes. you do know that communications and power are different?

And in the reader, its the RF output that provides both - even on the
low frequency near field devices where the RF is inductively coupled to
the tag.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 22 August 2019 22:36:22 UTC+1, Peeler wrote:
On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 06:40:29 +1000, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew
pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)", farted again:


Want to explain patch antennae ?

Thats not a coil, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

You can shove your coil, like everything else, up your senile arse, senile
asshole!

Perhaps this is the cause of his problems, he must have quite a bit stuck up there.

dennis@home wrote:

The newer UHF ones use RF for power, but they are not the common ones
that the BBC mentioned.

https://youtu.be/PWzyPZAPbt0