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Whaley Bridge ballast
I'm just musing.
The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Bill |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? IME the bags last a good few years without any obvious loss of integrity. Its probably just the UV that gets them in the end. Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? They might get washed through the village! It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. A Chinook could probably do a dozen of those - perhaps more in ideal conditions (i.e. not hot and high) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Bill They are doing them nine at a time. Chinucks can carry guns and stuff a few bags of gravel is not a lot. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:45:59 +0100, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? I doubt it's too important what's actually in the bags, just so long as they're heavy. In one shot on the TV there looked like smoke coming from a recently dropped bag, presumably dust blown up by downthrust from the rotors. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. Wikipedia gives the payload as 24,000 lbs. so a bit over 10 tons. The sacks are a nominal ton. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 14:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:45:59 +0100, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? I doubt it's too important what's actually in the bags, just so long as they're heavy. In one shot on the TV there looked like smoke coming from a recently dropped bag, presumably dust blown up by downthrust from the rotors. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. The American Sikorsky Skycranes could lift about 9 tonnes - i.e. just about lift an empty Chinook. Allegedly still some flyable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-64_Skycrane And the Russian Mi-26 once lifted over 56 tonnes - so could apparently have have dropped several Chinook in one flight :) -- Robin reply-to address is (intended to be) valid |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Bill I read somewhere that the ballast is being donated for free. There must be a big quarry fairly near. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 14:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? IME the bags last a good few years without any obvious loss of integrity. Its probably just the UV that gets them in the end. Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? They might get washed through the village! It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. A Chinook could probably do a dozen of those - perhaps more in ideal conditions (i.e. not hot and high) 4500 kg for CH47A according to Wikipedia although Quora claims a special forces version CH47E can do over 11 tons in optimal conditions. I wonder if they have load sensors on the winches? It would probably be prudent to expect a wet, overfilled "1 tonne" bag might be well over a tonne. IIRC our local supplier's bags are guaranteed to be 800 kg. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 16:21, newshound wrote:
On 05/08/2019 14:19, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? IME the bags last a good few years without any obvious loss of integrity. Its probably just the UV that gets them in the end. Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? They might get washed through the village! It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. A Chinook could probably do a dozen of those - perhaps more in ideal conditions (i.e. not hot and high) 4500 kg for CH47A according to Wikipedia although Quora claims a special forces version CH47E can do over 11 tons in optimal conditions. I wonder if they have load sensors on the winches? It would probably be prudent to expect a wet, overfilled "1 tonne" bag might be well over a tonne. IIRC our local supplier's bags are guaranteed to be 800 kg. The RAF site says they can carry "up to 10 tonnes of mixed cargo". I guess there may well be operational rules that don't let you sling as much as could be carried inside, properly fastened down. Might relate to the strength of the winch fixings too. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote:
I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Then you should be amazed that it lift itself - it weighs 10 or 11 tonnes empty! -- Cheers, Roger ____________ Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom checked. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On Monday, 5 August 2019 16:10:32 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
I read somewhere that the ballast is being donated for free. There must be a big quarry fairly near. That could be somewhere to put all the water ... Owain |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 14:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. One added complication they probably have is the ground upthrust(or whatever it is called) being so near to the ground could affect the lifting capacity, probable even more difficult on a slope. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 16:24, newshound wrote:
On 05/08/2019 16:21, newshound wrote: On 05/08/2019 14:19, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? IME the bags last a good few years without any obvious loss of integrity. Its probably just the UV that gets them in the end. Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? They might get washed through the village! It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. A Chinook could probably do a dozen of those - perhaps more in ideal conditions (i.e. not hot and high) 4500 kg for CH47A according to Wikipedia although Quora claims a special forces version CH47E can do over 11 tons in optimal conditions. Our more recent ones are based on the CH47F IIUC, although with more powerful engines. Many of the yank versions they seem to rate for around 20,000 lbs MoD seem to have a habit of buying perfectly good kit, and then changing it to be "better" (and generate work for local defence contractors). However that often means its more expensive and takes much longer to get flight qualified. Sometimes that can work well (our Apache gunships could fly with the Longbow RADAR fitted in Afganistan, whereas the US needed to remove it to get off the ground in the high temperatures and altitudes), but there was also a big fuss getting enough Chinooks into service as they had to remove a bunch of upgrades from a set of airframes just to get them into service quickly. I wonder if they have load sensors on the winches? It would probably be prudent to expect a wet, overfilled "1 tonne" bag might be well over a tonne. IIRC our local supplier's bags are guaranteed to be 800 kg. The RAF site says they can carry "up to 10 tonnes of mixed cargo". I guess there may well be operational rules that don't let you sling as much as could be carried inside, properly fastened down. Might relate to the strength of the winch fixings too. And having them flapping about below. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 14:43, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:45:59 +0100, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? I doubt it's too important what's actually in the bags, just so long as they're heavy. In one shot on the TV there looked like smoke coming from a recently dropped bag, presumably dust blown up by downthrust from the rotors. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. They have over 4000 hp available at each engine output shaft - so it ought to have a fair bit of grunt! -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 14:19, John Rumm wrote:
On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Almost certainly from the nearest quarry. We do a lot of work for a large builders merchants in Doncaster. Their ballast arrives by truck (from a nearby quarry) and is put into their labelled bags at the merchants. I assume the quarry also sell bagged ballast. -- Adam |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 16:24, newshound wrote:
On 05/08/2019 16:21, newshound wrote: On 05/08/2019 14:19, John Rumm wrote: On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? Probably the nearest quarry... either that or all the local builder's merchants are have a good week! I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Can be quite a bit cheaper loose in larger quantities. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? IME the bags last a good few years without any obvious loss of integrity. Its probably just the UV that gets them in the end. Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? They might get washed through the village! It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. A Chinook could probably do a dozen of those - perhaps more in ideal conditions (i.e. not hot and high) 4500 kg for CH47A according to Wikipedia although Quora claims a special forces version CH47E can do over 11 tons in optimal conditions. I wonder if they have load sensors on the winches? It would probably be prudent to expect a wet, overfilled "1 tonne" bag might be well over a tonne. IIRC our local supplier's bags are guaranteed to be 800 kg. The RAF site says they can carry "up to 10 tonnes of mixed cargo". I guess there may well be operational rules that don't let you sling as much as could be carried inside, properly fastened down. Might relate to the strength of the winch fixings too. A quick google shows the empty weight as 10,185kg and the max takeoff weight as 22,680kg (HC.2 version), but you have to subtract the weight of crew and fuel from that max to get the allowable load. Presumably with multiple short flights and never being far from support, the could get away with a minimal fuel load and carry more bags, but that may make manouevring into place harder - or maybe, as they are releasing one at a time, they only have facilities to carry and release three? Aha, it looks like it is a limit of having three releasable hooks! Apparently the centre hook is rated for 20,000lb and the fore and aft hooks for 10,000lb each. SteveW |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 15:32, Robin wrote:
On 05/08/2019 14:43, Chris Hogg wrote: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:45:59 +0100, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? I doubt it's too important what's actually in the bags, just so long as they're heavy. In one shot on the TV there looked like smoke coming from a recently dropped bag, presumably dust blown up by downthrust from the rotors. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. The American Sikorsky Skycranes could lift about 9 tonnes - i.e. just about lift an empty Chinook.Â* Allegedly still some flyable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-64_Skycrane And the Russian Mi-26 once lifted over 56 tonnes - so could apparently have have dropped several Chinook in one flight :) The Mi-26 is rated for 20,000kg. What about the Mi-V12 - rated for 40,000kg? SteveW |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 17:01, ss wrote:
On 05/08/2019 14:43, Chris Hogg wrote: I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. One added complication they probably have is the ground upthrust(or whatever it is called) being so near to the ground could affect the lifting capacity, probable even more difficult on a slope. Maybe the slope causes problems, but being near to the ground or "in ground effect" increases the lifting capacity of helicpters. SteveW |
Whaley Bridge ballast
In article , Bill Wright
writes I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Bill They're bloody big blades and whizz round pretty quickly. -- bert |
Whaley Bridge ballast
In article , Chris Hogg
writes On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 13:45:59 +0100, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? I doubt it's too important what's actually in the bags, just so long as they're heavy. In one shot on the TV there looked like smoke coming from a recently dropped bag, presumably dust blown up by downthrust from the rotors. Lots of spray from the lake itself. Downthrust on any helicopter throws up a load of dust and small pebbles but a Chinook is just fierce. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? I thought much the same thing - all that weight, including the Chinook, supported by the downthrust from two sets of rotating blades - seems verging on the impossible. -- bert |
Whaley Bridge ballast
In article , Roger Mills
writes On 05/08/2019 13:45, Bill Wright wrote: I'm just musing. The bags appear to be standard one ton bags. Hundreds of them. Where are they coming from? I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? I would think so. I guess the original problem was water getting under the concrete slabs and lifting them off rather than water coming through the dam itself. Therefore replace what has been washed away with these aggregate bags and then concrete over again. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. Aren't I silly? Then you should be amazed that it lift itself - it weighs 10 or 11 tonnes empty! -- bert |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 17:24, John Rumm wrote:
They have over 4000 hp available at each engine output shaft - so it ought to have a fair bit of grunt! I reckon helicopters are some of the most remarkable bits of mechanical engineering around. I used to know some of the guys at Imperial College and at Westland who worked on the design of the Lynx gearbox, which was a thing of true beauty. It is interesting how long the Sea King and Chinook have remained in service: once you get it right, you stick with the basic formula. I also knew the guy at Farnborough who figured out why the oil rig Chinook went down in the North Sea, once they had got the bits back to his lab. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_B...hinook_cra sh |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"newshound" wrote in message
... On 05/08/2019 17:24, John Rumm wrote: They have over 4000 hp available at each engine output shaft - so it ought to have a fair bit of grunt! I reckon helicopters are some of the most remarkable bits of mechanical engineering around. I can never see a helicopter now without thinking of the (humorous) description of how they work in the famous after-dinner speech by Dave Gunson, an air-traffic controller: (I'm paraphrasing slightly) "You move the stick like crazy and you watch what happens - because if you want it to to that again, *that* is where you put the stick... It's a miracle a helicopter ever takes off: it should, of course, screw itself into the ground." The biggest helicopter I've been in was as a passenger on the Penzance to Tresco (Isles of Scilly) service, a few years before it was discontinued. Bloody noisy, and the downdraught and hot exhaust fumes when it was idling during embarkation were quite incredible. But a hell of a lot quicker than going by ferry. The only other times have been in "Treasure Hunt" size Agustas (ie pilot and front seat passenger, and bench seat for three rear seat passengers), as pleasure flights. The first time was at a classic car show in Bracknell and I got a very good view of the roof of the ICL building I worked in, and all the open fields between Bracknell and Wokingham. It was decidedly un-nerving when the pilot banked sharply (it felt as if he turned over with his right side parallel to the ground) and I had to convince myself that the door would *not* spontaneously open and that I would *not* fall out. The second time was at Oxford airport in a very plush helicopter with leather upholstery and deep-pile carpets, and I admired the pilot's skill in hovering about five feet off the ground, barely moving from one spot, as he was told to wait after he'd taken off until an aeroplane had landed so he could cross the runway (I think the ATC gave the helicopter permission to take off and cross, assuming that the aeroplane would land sooner than it actually did!). I'm glad it was only *after* flying in helicopters that I read Jerry Grayson's account of how he managed to fly and land a helicopter with a failed tail rotor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNkwk2d_DJ8 Gulp! |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 22:33, NY wrote:
"newshound" wrote in message ... On 05/08/2019 17:24, John Rumm wrote: They have over 4000 hp available at each engine output shaft - so it ought to have a fair bit of grunt! I reckon helicopters are some of the most remarkable bits of mechanical engineering around. I can never see a helicopter now without thinking of the (humorous) description of how they work in the famous after-dinner speech by Dave Gunson, an air-traffic controller: (I'm paraphrasing slightly) "You move the stick like crazy and you watch what happens - because if you want it to to that again, *that* is where you put the stick... It's a miracle a helicopter ever takes off: it should, of course, screw itself into the ground." The biggest helicopter I've been in was as a passenger on the Penzance to Tresco (Isles of Scilly) service, a few years before it was discontinued. Bloody noisy, and the downdraught and hot exhaust fumes when it was idling during embarkation were quite incredible. But a hell of a lot quicker than going by ferry. Yup one of my disappointments is that in spite of having designed large swathes of the software that runs all the comms and crypto in the EH101 Merlin, I never actually got to play with a real one. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 05/08/2019 22:33, NY wrote:
"newshound" wrote in message ... On 05/08/2019 17:24, John Rumm wrote: They have over 4000 hp available at each engine output shaft - so it ought to have a fair bit of grunt! I reckon helicopters are some of the most remarkable bits of mechanical engineering around. I can never see a helicopter now without thinking of the (humorous) description of how they work in the famous after-dinner speech by Dave Gunson, an air-traffic controller: (I'm paraphrasing slightly) "You move the stick like crazy and you watch what happens - because if you want it to to that again, *that* is where you put the stick... It's a miracle a helicopter ever takes off: it should, of course, screw itself into the ground." .... snipped The only reason that helicopters can fly is that they are so ugly that the earth repels them :-) |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:03:52 +0100, bert wrote:
I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Peanuts compared to the cost of the chinook, the national reslience highvolume pumps and the some what larger other pumps that have now been brought in, and the new road... Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? I'd expect them to be something similar to MOT1 ie a mix of stones down to dust. Packs together tightly. What will happen afterwards? Will the bags deteriorate, making it impossible for them to be picked up by a crane? Will they be removed in fact? If so, where to? The bags may deteriorate when exposed to day light. The dumpy bags for the slate chippings started to have no strength after a year of exposure. The bags that the fire logs come do not noticeably weaken after several years. I think they'll have to be removed, you don't know whats underneath or how well bedded they are. The concrete that they are pouring between them to stabilse the mass might present more of a problem. Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? See above... I would think so. I guess the original problem was water getting under the concrete slabs and lifting them off rather than water coming through the dam itself. If water had been getting through the dam in any appreachable quantity the dam would no longer be there. As you say water got between the slabs, washed out the earth behind them and they collapsed into the void. It amazes me that blades whizzing round in the air can lift three tons. I've seen pictures with 7 bags underneath the chinook. Then you should be amazed that it lift itself - it weighs 10 or 11 tonnes empty! A lot of air needs to be moved. Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... -- Cheers Dave. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:33:01 +0100, NY wrote:
It was decidedly un-nerving when the pilot banked sharply (it felt as if he turned over with his right side parallel to the ground) and I had to convince myself that the door would *not* spontaneously open and that I would *not* fall out. Yers, BTDTGGTS. Army Air Corps Lynx "borrowed" by the BBC as a camera helicopter for the start of the Talls Ships race in the Solent. Quite an memorable trip: The view of the grass through the side, was enhanced by the fact the door was locked open. Not quite sure how close the rotor tips were to the ground... That was leaving Southhampton Airport after refueling and dropping some tapes off. Being an army pilot and there being rather a lot of other camera helos, links helos and fixed wing stuff flying about he decided to "keep away from all those bozos" and flew at 250 to 500' above the sea. Great views of the tall ships, yes over water with the door locked open. End up in the drink it would sink like a stone and you can't bail out until the rotor has stopped. Out just past the needles and alarm sounds, pilot instantly puts the nose down, drops and heads straight for the mainland. Oil pressure warning light had come on. Pilot spinning up the rotor by losing height to get it closer to autogyro. Land is friendlier that water with the door off. -- Cheers Dave. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:03:52 +0100, bert wrote: I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Peanuts compared to the cost of the chinook, the national reslience highvolume pumps and the some what larger other pumps that have now been brought in, and the new road... Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? I'd expect them to be something similar to MOT1 ie a mix of stones down to dust. Packs together tightly. You offering to go up with a whacker plate? The bags may deteriorate when exposed to day light. The dumpy bags for the slate chippings started to have no strength after a year of exposure. The bags that the fire logs come do not noticeably weaken after several years. I think they'll have to be removed, you don't know whats underneath or how well bedded they are. The concrete that they are pouring between them to stabilse the mass might present more of a problem. Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? See above... Shurely once the damn is emptied to 25% they'll be rebuilding it properly? A load of bags of heavy **** dumped from a helo does not sound like a proper repair..... -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
In article , Jim K..
writes "Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:03:52 +0100, bert wrote: I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Peanuts compared to the cost of the chinook, the national reslience highvolume pumps and the some what larger other pumps that have now been brought in, and the new road... Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? I'd expect them to be something similar to MOT1 ie a mix of stones down to dust. Packs together tightly. You offering to go up with a whacker plate? The bags may deteriorate when exposed to day light. The dumpy bags for the slate chippings started to have no strength after a year of exposure. The bags that the fire logs come do not noticeably weaken after several years. I think they'll have to be removed, you don't know whats underneath or how well bedded they are. The concrete that they are pouring between them to stabilse the mass might present more of a problem. Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? See above... Shurely once the damn is emptied to 25% they'll be rebuilding it properly? A load of bags of heavy **** dumped from a helo does not sound like a proper repair..... Not likely to need rebuilding. It is a very simple construction built before whacker plates were invented. -- bert |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net... Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... Yes I was amazed at how well the pilot was able to compensate the amount of lift as he let go of a ton of ballast. I wonder how much "autopilot" type assistance the pilot gets in maintaining a constant height as the load varies and if there are any gusts. Particularly critical when a pilot has to hover close to ground or close to a cliff face for a long time during a winch-man rescue of a patient. Probably there's less need for really accurate positioning with military Chinooks, but for air-sea rescue those guys need phenomenal reactions - and a lot of good feedback from an observer "forward one, right two, backwards one" (I wonder the units are - feet? metres?). I have a lot of respect for helicopter pilots. I became quite good at "flying" various fixed-wing planes in MS Flight Simulator, but I never got the hang of "flying" a helicopter. Of course, "flying" in FS is no substitute for flying a real plane. I had a couple of lessons in a Cessna a long time ago, before a medical condition meant that flying was probably not a good idea, even if was still allowed by CAA, and the experience of feeling the plane pitch, roll and yaw as the controls were moved cannot be duplicated in a PC simulator! Nor can the mild vertigo when you look out of the window and think "it's a *long* way down" - even at only 500 feet. One thing that surprised me: we flew over a field where a farmer was muck-spreading, and I was amazed at how much of the smell made it up to 1000 or 1500 feet. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net... On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:33:01 +0100, NY wrote: It was decidedly un-nerving when the pilot banked sharply (it felt as if he turned over with his right side parallel to the ground) and I had to convince myself that the door would *not* spontaneously open and that I would *not* fall out. Yers, BTDTGGTS. Army Air Corps Lynx "borrowed" by the BBC as a camera helicopter for the start of the Talls Ships race in the Solent. Quite an memorable trip: The view of the grass through the side, was enhanced by the fact the door was locked open. Not quite sure how close the rotor tips were to the ground... That was leaving Southhampton Airport after refueling and dropping some tapes off. Being an army pilot and there being rather a lot of other camera helos, links helos and fixed wing stuff flying about he decided to "keep away from all those bozos" and flew at 250 to 500' above the sea. Great views of the tall ships, yes over water with the door locked open. End up in the drink it would sink like a stone and you can't bail out until the rotor has stopped. Out just past the needles and alarm sounds, pilot instantly puts the nose down, drops and heads straight for the mainland. Oil pressure warning light had come on. Pilot spinning up the rotor by losing height to get it closer to autogyro. Land is friendlier that water with the door off. The helicopter G-BHXU that was used as the Skyrunner helicopter in Treasure Hunt ended up in a watery grave just off the Channel Islands when it suffered a catastrophic engine or gearbox failure, requiring the pilot to autogyro to the surface of the sea and then he and his passenger had to bail out. They were wearing lifejackets but the pilot said it would have been useful if the helicopter had had an oxygen supply (an optional extra on that chopper) to help them breathe until they could leave the cockpit which filled with water very quickly. I'm not sure whether they were flying it with the doors off. Because the wreckage couldn't be recovered, the exact cause was never determined. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
bert Wrote in message:
In article , Jim K.. writes "Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message: On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 21:03:52 +0100, bert wrote: I wonder how much they are costing. A ton of ballast is normally £35 to £40. Peanuts compared to the cost of the chinook, the national reslience highvolume pumps and the some what larger other pumps that have now been brought in, and the new road... Are they actually ballast (as commonly understood), or are some sand and some stone? I'd expect them to be something similar to MOT1 ie a mix of stones down to dust. Packs together tightly. You offering to go up with a whacker plate? The bags may deteriorate when exposed to day light. The dumpy bags for the slate chippings started to have no strength after a year of exposure. The bags that the fire logs come do not noticeably weaken after several years. I think they'll have to be removed, you don't know whats underneath or how well bedded they are. The concrete that they are pouring between them to stabilse the mass might present more of a problem. Won't they just be left there, and subsequently concreted over? See above... Shurely once the damn is emptied to 25% they'll be rebuilding it properly? A load of bags of heavy **** dumped from a helo does not sound like a proper repair..... Not likely to need rebuilding. It is a very simple construction built before whacker plates were invented. So you think a few hundred builders bags of aggregate and a bit of skim concrete (finished with a wet finger?) is all that will happen? The original dam is made of material that did not need a whacker plate, the "repair" is totally different... -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"NY" wrote in message ... "Dave Liquorice" wrote in message idual.net... Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... Yes I was amazed at how well the pilot was able to compensate the amount of lift as he let go of a ton of ballast. I wonder how much "autopilot" type assistance the pilot gets in maintaining a constant height as the load varies and if there are any gusts. Particularly critical when a pilot has to hover close to ground or close to a cliff face for a long time during a winch-man rescue of a patient. Probably there's less need for really accurate positioning with military Chinooks, but for air-sea rescue those guys need phenomenal reactions - and a lot of good feedback from an observer "forward one, right two, backwards one" (I wonder the units are - feet? metres?). I have a lot of respect for helicopter pilots. I became quite good at "flying" various fixed-wing planes in MS Flight Simulator, but I never got the hang of "flying" a helicopter. Of course, "flying" in FS is no substitute for flying a real plane. I had a couple of lessons in a Cessna a long time ago, before a medical condition meant that flying was probably not a good idea, even if was still allowed by CAA, and the experience of feeling the plane pitch, roll and yaw as the controls were moved cannot be duplicated in a PC simulator! Yeah, can get interesting landing in a strong gusty crosswind that's at the limit of what the plane is allowed to land in. Nor can the mild vertigo when you look out of the window and think "it's a *long* way down" - even at only 500 feet. I never get that effect myself. Had an interesting result when I took a glider pilot mate of mine for a fly in our 172. Flying over a swamp where we had put a ****ing great water tank in the swamp to measure the evaporation rate, just pushed the nose down so he could see the tank, had him grab his seat and shout "don't do that" One thing that surprised me: we flew over a field where a farmer was muck-spreading, and I was amazed at how much of the smell made it up to 1000 or 1500 feet. Never saw that, but we don't muck spread much here. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 07/08/2019 04:13, Rod Speed wrote:
snip One thing that surprised me: we flew over a field where a farmer was muck-spreading, and I was amazed at how much of the smell made it up to 1000 or 1500 feet. Never saw that, but we don't muck spread much here. ****ing major irony alert there, mate. |
Lonely Psychopathic Senile Ozzie Troll Alert!
On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:13:36 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: FLUSH senile asshole's latest troll**** Oh, **** ...and this thread was Rodent-free, so far! tsk -- about senile Rot Speed: "This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage." MID: |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 06/08/2019 21:14, NY wrote:
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message idual.net... On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 22:33:01 +0100, NY wrote: It was decidedly un-nerving when the pilot banked sharply (it felt as if he turned over with his right side parallel to the ground) and I had to convince myself that the door would *not* spontaneously open and that I would *not* fall out. Yers, BTDTGGTS. Army Air Corps Lynx "borrowed" by the BBC as a camera helicopter for the start of the Talls Ships race in the Solent. Quite an memorable trip: The view of the grass through the side, was enhanced by the fact the door was locked open. Not quite sure how close the rotor tips were to the ground... That was leaving Southhampton Airport after refueling and dropping some tapes off. Being an army pilot and there being rather a lot of other camera helos, links helos and fixed wing stuff flying about he decided to "keep away from all those bozos" and flew at 250 to 500' above the sea. Great views of the tall ships, yes over water with the door locked open. End up in the drink it would sink like a stone and you can't bail out until the rotor has stopped. Out just past the needles and alarm sounds, pilot instantly puts the nose down, drops and heads straight for the mainland. Oil pressure warning light had come on. Pilot spinning up the rotor by losing height to get it closer to autogyro. Land is friendlier that water with the door off. The helicopter G-BHXU that was used as the Skyrunner helicopter in Treasure Hunt ended up in a watery grave just off the Channel Islands when it suffered a catastrophic engine or gearbox failure, requiring the pilot to autogyro to the surface of the sea and then he and his passenger had to bail out. They were wearing lifejackets but the pilot said it would have been useful if the helicopter had had an oxygen supply (an optional extra on that chopper) to help them breathe until they could leave the cockpit which filled with water very quickly. I'm not sure whether they were flying it with the doors off. Because the wreckage couldn't be recovered, the exact cause was never determined. An interesting look on how you train for getting out of a helicopter that ditches at sea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-53kaP6dZeI -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 16:40:45 +0100, John Rumm wrote:
An interesting look on how you train for getting out of a helicopter that ditches at sea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-53kaP6dZeI Not long after the "Army Lynx Experience" I did another job at a "dunk tank" probably at RNAS Yeovilton. Fortunately I wasn't required to participate in a dunk. Watching what happens was enough, submerged and rolled very quickly. Then they repeat it in the dark, total and absolute dark. Not even a charge LED on the buildings emergency exit signs. -- Cheers Dave. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 21:08:15 +0100, NY wrote:
Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... Yes I was amazed at how well the pilot was able to compensate the amount of lift as he let go of a ton of ballast. I wonder how much "autopilot" type assistance the pilot gets in maintaining a constant height as the load varies and if there are any gusts. Don't know if a Chinook has any such automatics. In some ways I be surprised if they do, such automatics have a habit of not letting you "push the envelope" which an aircraft in a combat zone may wish to do... It's also added complexilty thus something else to go wrong. Being RAF it won't be the first time they have dropped underslung loads and they'll know the aircraft very well and how much to reduce the pitch of the rotors for a given weight loss. I guess that they don't reduce the pitch until they feel the weight go rather than on a count, just in case the release doesnt happen... -- Cheers Dave. |
Whaley Bridge ballast
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message idual.net... On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 21:08:15 +0100, NY wrote: Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... Yes I was amazed at how well the pilot was able to compensate the amount of lift as he let go of a ton of ballast. I wonder how much "autopilot" type assistance the pilot gets in maintaining a constant height as the load varies and if there are any gusts. Don't know if a Chinook has any such automatics. Yes it does, and it needs them in case there is a load failure when the load is a heavy field gun etc. http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/26019...d_failures.pdf In some ways I be surprised if they do, such automatics have a habit of not letting you "push the envelope" which an aircraft in a combat zone may wish to do... Easy to allow that to be overridden when required. It's also added complexilty thus something else to go wrong. Sure, but load failure is much more likely with a chinook. Being RAF it won't be the first time they have dropped underslung loads and they'll know the aircraft very well and how much to reduce the pitch of the rotors for a given weight loss. I guess that they don't reduce the pitch until they feel the weight go rather than on a count, just in case the release doesnt happen... |
More Heavy Trolling by Senile Nym-Shifting Rodent Speed!
On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:34:07 +1000, jleikppkywk, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote: FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** -- Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile cretin from Oz: https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/ |
Whaley Bridge ballast
On 07/08/2019 21:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 21:08:15 +0100, NY wrote: Excellent flying as well, not only close to the dam but also hardly any lurch upwards when they drop a couple of bags... Yes I was amazed at how well the pilot was able to compensate the amount of lift as he let go of a ton of ballast. I wonder how much "autopilot" type assistance the pilot gets in maintaining a constant height as the load varies and if there are any gusts. Don't know if a Chinook has any such automatics. In some ways I be surprised if they do, such automatics have a habit of not letting you "push the envelope" which an aircraft in a combat zone may wish to do... It's also added complexilty thus something else to go wrong. The updated digital avionics that Chinooks have now have many features, apparently including auto-hover and automatic position control, with automatic movements in 30cm increments. SteveW |
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