I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

I am, of course, shamed by the lighting wiring where the holes look
horizontal.

I am also puzzled by the irregular spacing of the 2" joists and the
inclusion of a 2.5" joist roughly halfway across the room. Also the extra
joist near the doorway. Still, 1930s house......


Cheers



Dave R



--
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On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

I am, of course, shamed by the lighting wiring where the holes look
horizontal.

I am also puzzled by the irregular spacing of the 2" joists and the
inclusion of a 2.5" joist roughly halfway across the room. Also the extra
joist near the doorway. Still, 1930s house......

Builders have always uised and still use whatver is to hand, although as
materials get cheaper and fixed price jiobs get mre common, they are
trading their own time for materials cost not theoir employers.



Cheers



Dave R





--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a replacement seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen. Alternatively use an auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help pull the drill through, originally these had a square tapered shank to fit a brace but these days they come with round parallel shanks for machine drilling. Just be careful as they cut through quite rapidly and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Richard

Yes, also of course if it was relatively new wood the stuff in the resin can
suddenly stop a drill when it clogs up the grooves.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a replacement
seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen. Alternatively use an
auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help pull the drill through,
originally these had a square tapered shank to fit a brace but these days
they come with round parallel shanks for machine drilling. Just be careful
as they cut through quite rapidly and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Richard

On 27/06/2019 17:38, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, also of course if it was relatively new wood the stuff in the resin can
suddenly stop a drill when it clogs up the grooves.
Brian


I think he is using a flat blade drill, Brian (25 mm diameter) not a
high-speed steel type of drill.

Flat blade drills need to rotate very fast to get through old,
dry, hardened wood.

On 27/06/2019 20:29, Andrew wrote:
On 27/06/2019 17:38, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes, also of course if it was relatively new wood the stuff in the
resin can
suddenly stop a drill when it clogs up the grooves.
Â* Brian


I think he is using a flat blade drill, Brian (25 mm diameter) not a
high-speed steel type of drill.

Flat blade drills need to rotate very fast to get through old,
dry, hardenedÂ* wood.

OK with good Victorian pine (smell the resin!), but agreed a slow auger
is much better for old oak, elm, etc.

On 27/06/2019 13:59, Tricky Dicky wrote:
By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a replacement seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen. Alternatively use an auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help pull the drill through, originally these had a square tapered shank to fit a brace but these days they come with round parallel shanks for machine drilling. Just be careful as they cut through quite rapidly and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Don't forget that new drill bits are for some reason more likely to hit
a nail or screw than old drill bits.


--
Adam

On 27/06/2019 20:50, ARW wrote:
On 27/06/2019 13:59, Tricky Dicky wrote:
By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a
replacement seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen.
Alternatively use an auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help
pull the drill through, originally these had a square tapered shank to
fit a brace but these days they come with round parallel shanks for
machine drilling. Just be careful as they cut through quite rapidly
and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Don't forget that new drill bits are for some reason more likely to hit
a nail or screw than old drill bits.



or fingers too :-)

On 27/06/2019 13:59, Tricky Dicky wrote:
By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a replacement seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen. Alternatively use an auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help pull the drill through, originally these had a square tapered shank to fit a brace but these days they come with round parallel shanks for machine drilling. Just be careful as they cut through quite rapidly and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Richard


Although not through joists I have used a short auger in a confined
space similar to

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-s...ails_container

and have used a ratchet drive (smaller car socket set type) on the hex
end of the auger to manually turn/drive the screw into the wood to cut
the hole.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 30/06/2019 07:00, alan_m wrote:
On 27/06/2019 13:59, Tricky Dicky wrote:
By the sound of it your flat bit is probably blunt @ £1.50 for a
replacement seems hardly worthwhile taking a file to it to sharpen.
Alternatively use an auger the screw thread on the tip tends to help
pull the drill through, originally these had a square tapered shank to
fit a brace but these days they come with round parallel shanks for
machine drilling. Just be careful as they cut through quite rapidly
and can easily over drill a blind hole.

Richard


Although not through joists I have used a short auger in a confined
space similar to

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-s...ails_container


and have used a ratchet drive (smaller car socket set type) on the hex
end of the auger to manually turn/drive the screw into the wood to cut
the hole.


Or

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-F304.../dp/B0030BZRZO


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On Thursday, 27 June 2019 11:59:55 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

I am, of course, shamed by the lighting wiring where the holes look
horizontal.

I am also puzzled by the irregular spacing of the 2" joists and the
inclusion of a 2.5" joist roughly halfway across the room. Also the extra
joist near the doorway. Still, 1930s house......


Cheers



Dave R

Sharpen it, it's trivially easy


NT

On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

This is what I have often done, though I agree with other posters that
your spade bit sounds to be blunt.

On 27/06/2019 16:02, newshound wrote:
On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor
and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to
get
started.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

This is what I have often done, though I agree with other posters that
your spade bit sounds to be blunt.

Should have said, OK for a single hole, but if you have a long run then
pull-through is much easier if the holes are all parallel and aligned.
Stubby augers are best. It all depends on how much you have got to do.
My big rewiring jobs were in the distant past, in the days before nice
compact cordless impact drivers with their hex chuck, that is what I
would be using these days.

On 27/06/2019 21:07, newshound wrote:

Should have said, OK for a single hole, but if you have a long run then
pull-through is much easier if the holes are all parallel and aligned.
Stubby augers are best. It all depends on how much you have got to do.
My big rewiring jobs were in the distant past, in the days before nice
compact cordless impact drivers with their hex chuck, that is what I
would be using these days.

Problem with the 1/4" hex is that many augers are not available with
that shank...

Angle drill is the way to go if you have lots to do...

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/06/2019 13:02, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/06/2019 21:07, newshound wrote:

Should have said, OK for a single hole, but if you have a long run
then pull-through is much easier if the holes are all parallel and
aligned. Stubby augers are best. It all depends on how much you have
got to do. My big rewiring jobs were in the distant past, in the days
before nice compact cordless impact drivers with their hex chuck, that
is what I would be using these days.

Problem with the 1/4" hex is that many augers are not available with
that shank...

Angle drill is the way to go if you have lots to do...


I used a compact 18V drill and a blacksmiths drill to do mine.

Fit between the joists easily.

On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:

I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.

A stubby auger is a much easier way IME:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:41:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I went out and bought a brand new 18mm spade bit just to see, and it went
through quite happily at a shallow angle.
Two wires fit through comfortably.

I have a set of fluted bits but they only go up to 10mm.
Used one to drill the four corners of the box shape in the floor boards
before linking up the holes with a jigsaw.
The drill bit went through without any trouble.

I've always had problems with the larger spade bits; I think it is the
extra drag of all that metal.

Then again, sharpening might help.

Then again life's too short when new ones are cheap.

Anyway, wires run through the joists (apart from the last couple which
were so notched for previous versions of plumbing there was no point),
boxes sunk into the floorboards, and mainly now the Ethernet to extend.

Cheers



Dave r



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On Thursday, 27 June 2019 18:38:23 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 17:41:37 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I went out and bought a brand new 18mm spade bit just to see, and it went
through quite happily at a shallow angle.
Two wires fit through comfortably.

I have a set of fluted bits but they only go up to 10mm.
Used one to drill the four corners of the box shape in the floor boards
before linking up the holes with a jigsaw.
The drill bit went through without any trouble.

I've always had problems with the larger spade bits; I think it is the
extra drag of all that metal.

Then again, sharpening might help.

Then again life's too short when new ones are cheap.

Anyway, wires run through the joists (apart from the last couple which
were so notched for previous versions of plumbing there was no point),
boxes sunk into the floorboards, and mainly now the Ethernet to extend.

Cheers



Dave r

I put all the bits to be sharpened in a pile. When I eventually get a round tuit I reckon I must get well over 100 an hour done, give or take a fair bit. It would probably take longer to buy new ones.


NT

On 27/06/2019 17:41, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on the
market if you have serious joist drilling to do.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on the
market if you have serious joist drilling to do.

Then regarding your point about them acting as nail-finders

https://www.axminster.co.uk/armeg-wood-beaver-nail-proof-stubby-drill-set-4-pce-103784

I don't have an angle-drill, so between joists I use them in the
shortest drill body I have, which is the impact driver

On 27/06/2019 21:01, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on
the market if you have serious joist drilling to do.

Then regarding your point about them acting as nail-finders

https://www.axminster.co.uk/armeg-wood-beaver-nail-proof-stubby-drill-set-4-pce-103784


I don't have an angle-drill, so between joists I use them in the
shortest drill body I have, which is the impact driver


I also have those. They break and bend a lot easier that the red ones IMHO.

--
Adam

On 27/06/2019 21:01, Andy Burns wrote:
ARW wrote:

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on
the market if you have serious joist drilling to do.

Then regarding your point about them acting as nail-finders

https://www.axminster.co.uk/armeg-wood-beaver-nail-proof-stubby-drill-set-4-pce-103784


I don't have an angle-drill, so between joists I use them in the
shortest drill body I have, which is the impact driver

£40 for a set !!. For most people trying to drill a hole through a joist
as a very-occasional exercise, that's a bit steep.

Unless you visit a Doncaster car-boot sale and get some cheap '2nd hand'
ones :-).

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:01:40 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

ARW wrote:

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on the
market if you have serious joist drilling to do.

Then regarding your point about them acting as nail-finders

https://www.axminster.co.uk/armeg-wo...-stubby-drill-
set-4-pce-103784

I don't have an angle-drill, so between joists I use them in the
shortest drill body I have, which is the impact driver

JOOI how does the drill react to the impact setting?

Noting that my impact driver has a chuck which takes screwdriver bits so I
couldn't fit a "normal" drill in there anyway.

Cheers


Dave R


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On 27/06/2019 20:57, ARW wrote:
On 27/06/2019 17:41, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any
push once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on the
market if you have serious joist drilling to do.


As long as you have a powerful enough drill. A lot of diy
cordless drills will just stall trying to get those through
an old, hard lump of timber.

On 27/06/2019 21:10, Andrew wrote:
On 27/06/2019 20:57, ARW wrote:
On 27/06/2019 17:41, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any
push once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on
the market if you have serious joist drilling to do.


As long as you have a powerful enough drill. A lot of diy
cordless drills will just stall trying to get those through
an old, hard lump of timber.

Good point.

--
Adam

On 27/06/2019 21:10, Andrew wrote:
On 27/06/2019 20:57, ARW wrote:
On 27/06/2019 17:41, Andy Burns wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any
push once started.

Similarly the quad-flute bits are very fast when they start to bite

https://screwfix.com/p/wood-beaver/91676

ask my thumbnail just /how/ fast the drill burst through the wooden
flooring I was drilling for a radiator pipe ...

I now only use the wood beavers for most jobs. Probably the best on
the market if you have serious joist drilling to do.


As long as you have a powerful enough drill. A lot of diy
cordless drills will just stall trying to get those through
an old, hard lump of timber.

One way to reduce the torque requirement of an auger, is to drill a
small pilot hole first, such that the "pull" from the worm is reduced.

You can tune the effect by selecting the size of pilot. If you make it
larger than the worm, then you eliminate all the self feed - and can
apply however much push your drill's torque will allow.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/06/2019 16:50, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:

I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor
and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to
get
started.

A stubby auger is a much easier way IME:

https://www.toolstation.com/stubby-h...bit-set/p59839

They pull themselves through the wood, and don't need much if any push
once started.


+1

On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to get
started.


Been there, got the Tshirt (and a right angled adaptor).

What you need is SPEED. I use an old B&D orange drill with its metal
2speed gearbox, set to fast. Use a new, sharp spade bit and then use
a block of wood to brace your right hand so that you can apply force
laterally to the right-angle adapter, so that you impose no lateral
force on the shaft plugged into the drill, and while holding the
drill in your left hand. With tough old beams getting the blade
spinning as fast as possible is the trick.

The numpty electicians who wired up my 1976 house just drilled
the centre of the joist but at an angle, i.e. didn't have or bother
with a right-angled adapter, where the joists are spaced by 18 inches.

Where 65 mm joist were doubled up they drilled from each side hoping to
sort-of meet in the middle, and then hacked away with a wood chisel to
get the cooker cable through the mis-aligned hole.

This technique made an effective 3 inch hole (measured vertically) in
an 8 inch joist.

If I point the drill down at a fairly shallow angle I could potentially
drill a longer hole, but more easily as I can lean onto the drill with my
full weight to encourage it to sink in.

Is there any reason not to use this method?

I am, of course, shamed by the lighting wiring where the holes look
horizontal.

I am also puzzled by the irregular spacing of the 2" joists and the
inclusion of a 2.5" joist roughly halfway across the room. Also the extra
joist near the doorway. Still, 1930s house......


Cheers



Dave R

On 27/06/2019 20:27, Andrew wrote:
On 27/06/2019 11:59, David wrote:
I've dug more stuff out of the stash and found a right angle adaptor
and a
cut down 25mm spade bit.

However I am having difficulty making any headway through the joist, I
think mainly due to the inability to get a lot of force applied to the
bit. The pointy bit goes in but the spade part doesn't seem to want to
get
started.


Been there, got the Tshirt (and a right angled adaptor).

What you need is SPEED. I use an old B&D orange drill with its metal
2speed gearbox, set to fast. Use a new, sharp spade bit and then use
a block of wood to brace your right hand so that you can apply force
laterally to the right-angle adapter, so that you impose no lateral
force on the shaft plugged into the drill, and while holding the
drill in your left hand. With tough old beams getting the blade
spinning as fast as possible is the trick.

The numpty electicians who wired up my 1976 house just drilled
the centre of the joist but at an angle, i.e. didn't have or bother
with a right-angled adapter, where the joists are spaced by 18 inches.

Where 65 mm joist were doubled up they drilled from each side hoping to
sort-of meet in the middle, and then hacked away with a wood chisel to
get the cooker cable through the mis-aligned hole.

We had triple joists on some new builds last year. I spent £50 on new
bits for that job. Start off with stubby and work up to longer sizes and
we still had to drill from both sides (nothing that a tape measure
stopped us from doing properly) so the holes were straight and in line.

--
Adam