On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 13:37:01 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 21/06/2019 09:23, T i m wrote:

I find it 'safer / better / easier' to charge each battery (in series)
individually, especially as they age or aren't well matched in the
first place (especially if the charger capacity is quite good).

If you do two at once presumably you disconnect them...

No need, as long as the outputs of the chargers are 'floating' (and
they generally are).

This means you can use a single 3 pole connector to do them both at
the same time.

I bought a new pair of Lucas AGM GEL for what was Dads TGA mobility
scooter when the previous batteries got destroyed by not being charged
at all for a long time.

After charging them first individually (on the Optimate4) I put them
on the scooter and plugged in it's 24 volt charger but that never
seemed to turn off (= go into maintenance mode).

So, had I left it on it would have destroyed the new batteries. ;-(

I've since tested the idea of charging them independently whilst still
plugged into the scooter loom using two Optimate2's and they work fine
(and both shut off when they should etc).

There could be something wrong with the (new) 24V charger of course
but it did actually work as designed on a different pair of 12V
batteries (suggesting to me that it's not 'smart' enough for my
liking).

And these batteries aren't cheap eh. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

Thanks for the help.

The Anderson connectors look just the job.

I now have the panels - they are 250W

I'll probably just use 2 panels in series which will give about 70V and 8A charging with full sunlight.

I'll chop off the existing MC4s and replace them with single pole Andersons. All other power connectors will also be Anderson.

Also, two buss bars for the batteries, with each battery using single pole Andersons too allowing easy down/upsizing.

Mains input will be 16A IEC 60309; output likewise. I'll provide a couple of ordinary mains sockets too on the panel.

DC in, AC in and out all to have separate breakers appropriately sized. Each battery string to have inline fuse.

Might provide a earth spike.

A small dry powder extinguisher to be included.

On Friday, 21 June 2019 13:08:40 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

As I found to my cost / surprise, some of the different colours of the
same model in the Anderson range aren't inter-connectable and that can
be used to good effect when making up connectivity solutions for the
panels and batteries etc.

Which ones are you thinking of? Powerpole?
I have never seen a problem with mating different colours of Powerpole,
but there are "finger safe" versions which don't mate with the traditional
ones unless you push very hard.

There are also some clones around that may not be made to very high tolerance.

John

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 09:36:06 -0700 (PDT), Nick de Smith
wrote:

Thanks for the help.

The Anderson connectors look just the job.

I now have the panels - they are 250W

I'll probably just use 2 panels in series which will give about 70V and 8A charging with full sunlight.

I'll chop off the existing MC4s and replace them with single pole Andersons. All other power connectors will also be Anderson.

Also, two buss bars for the batteries, with each battery using single pole Andersons too allowing easy down/upsizing.

Mains input will be 16A IEC 60309; output likewise. I'll provide a couple of ordinary mains sockets too on the panel.

DC in, AC in and out all to have separate breakers appropriately sized. Each battery string to have inline fuse.

Might provide a earth spike.

A small dry powder extinguisher to be included.

Sounds like you have a plan. ;-)

My only caution (that you may have already covered) is with single
pole connectors and making sure you can't make a 'bad' connection by
accident (especially with those sorts of currents available).

e.g. I might sacrifice some extra voltage drop by (say) making up a
double pole / twin connector 'Y' lead into the controller that allows
each battery to be wired and polarised correctly / automatically,
without having to think about it. Whilst single pole connectors can be
very flexibility, without care that flexibility could open up
vulnerabilities (might be ok for you, but not some kind soul trying to
help)?

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I am envious of your opportunity to play with this level of gear.
;-)

On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 15:20:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, 21 June 2019 13:08:40 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

As I found to my cost / surprise, some of the different colours of the
same model in the Anderson range aren't inter-connectable and that can
be used to good effect when making up connectivity solutions for the
panels and batteries etc.

Which ones are you thinking of? Powerpole?

Yes, specifically the SB(50 I've experienced) range:

"SB Series have colour-keyed housings

A unique feature of the SB Series Powerpole housings are that they are
keyed to only mate with the same colour housing. For example, a gray
SB50 housing will only mate with other gray SB50 housings. A red SB175
housing will only mate with other red SB175 housings, etc. The
exception for SB50 is the black housing, which also mates with the
SB50 gray housing. The exception for SB175 is the black housing which
is keyless and will make with all other colours. For SB350 there are
no colour mating exceptions.

The colour-keyed feature can be used to colour code different voltages
or systems and prevent accidental connection."

https://powerwerx.com/help/powerpole-connectors

I have never seen a problem with mating different colours of Powerpole,
but there are "finger safe" versions which don't mate with the traditional
ones unless you push very hard.

See above, the smaller series (PP15,30,45) are as you say, fully
interconnectable across the colour range. ;-)

There are also some clones around that may not be made to very high tolerance.

That's what I thought was the problem when I first bought some 'clone'
SB50's, until I looked closer and found the mechanical keys were very
different. ;-(

I have generally fitted the PP15-30 connectors to anything portable
and typically 12V (or lower if on an RC model etc), keeping a 'std'
orientation of the two plugs (keyed together) for the 12V stuff and
something else for the other stuff.

The dilemma I currently have is that several things seem to come with
SAE connectors (solar panels, Optimate chargers etc) and they don't
play well with the Powerpoles [1]. I have made up converters but that
means more connections and chances of getting stuff wrong so what I
have done in the past is cut the SAE connector off but left it on a
short length of cable (~100mm) then fitted PP connectors to both bits
and so giving me a 'native' PP connector, but with the option of SAE
if required.[2]

Cheers, T i m

[1] I've not found a solder_it_yourself SAE connector so that means
you have to either buy them with a length of cable attached (rarely
heavy enough) or buy an SAE extension and cut it in half to make two
converters or SAE ends etc.

[2] I sometimes cable tie the SAE PP converter cable to the end of
the charger lead itself so I can't lose it and can use it in place.
;-)

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Nick de Smith wrote:

Anyone here know about designing a mobile PV setup - I've been handed
an IC-BP3000-24 controller, six LSLC42-12 12v deep cycle batteries
and five big PV panels on stands...

My local beekeeping group have given me the job of building this into
a mobile setup that we can take to local shows (don't ask why!).
Everything has to fit in the back of an estate car.

It would be so much cooler if you built it into a van, and at the touch
of a button the panels unfolded and tracked the sun.

On Sunday, 23 June 2019 00:34:11 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

Yes, specifically the SB(50 I've experienced) range:
"SB Series have colour-keyed housings
...snip...

Thanks. Interesting.

John

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:28:13 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Nick de Smith wrote:

Anyone here know about designing a mobile PV setup - I've been handed
an IC-BP3000-24 controller, six LSLC42-12 12v deep cycle batteries
and five big PV panels on stands...

My local beekeeping group have given me the job of building this into
a mobile setup that we can take to local shows (don't ask why!).
Everything has to fit in the back of an estate car.

It would be so much cooler if you built it into a van, and at the touch
of a button the panels unfolded and tracked the sun.

It could also be partially built into a semi-dedicated [1] trailer,
that way you wouldn't have to load and unload it all every time and
with some thought, could (should anyway?) be designed with a false
floor to keep the batteries underneath with vents at the side / floor
so the batteries could be charged in-situ between uses?

If it could be left outside securely between uses, one panel could be
left on top (and / or be part of a lid) and might keep the system
charged?

(some / four of the) The panels could be mounted on the trailer, held
in place by sockets fitted to (/inside) the trailer corners, the (6')
tubular uprights forming extra corner steadies and the batteries and
other gear helping towards ballast, holding it all steady in a breeze.
;-)

~100kg of batteries, interconnects and controller plus ~100kg for the
panels plus whatever the stands weigh so a 6' x 4' x 350kg gross
(unbraked) small goods trailer could be used.

Assuming the OP's or said 'estate car' has a tow bar (all estate cars
should IMHO g) it would be ready to rock at short notice, could be
stored in any club members garage / barn in between outs and towed by
anyone with a towbar, should the OP not be available (no reliance on a
'big' car).

I think that would make both a practical, convenient (not having to
load and unload between uses) and cool rig. ;-)

But then I'm a trailer fan ... currently having something like 11
myself ... [2] ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Maybe also using the trailer for moving hives / other things
between outs?

[2] Possibly including a 350kg box trailer that could be for sale. ;-)