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  #131   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 06:35 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 16:18:47 +0000, Mark
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 15:12:33 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:27:02 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

If a hard Brexit only effected those who voted for it, I'd be all in
favour of it.


;-)

I'm sure someone is keeping a register and we can find them their own
island *somewhere* where they can all be on their own. ;-)


If only. However, I'm sure there's plenty of space on Mars.


And the perfect atmosphere for them. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

  #132   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:32 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2019 21:36, charles wrote:
Free trade comes with free movement of people. eg Norway.

Free trade does not come with free movement of people e.g. Japan.


Japan doesn't have borders with the EU.

So what?
Within the EU, you can hop on a bus and go to any country for casual work.
For very little cost. Now tell us the cheapest method of getting to Japan.

What has that got to do with Free Trade Deals?
--
bert
  #133   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , BillD
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2019 21:36, charles wrote:
Free trade comes with free movement of people. eg Norway.
Free trade does not come with free movement of people e.g. Japan.


Japan doesn't have borders with the EU.

Within the EU, you can hop on a bus and go to any country for casual work.
For very little cost.


In practice most fly now and there isn’t much difference in the cheapest
fares from the UK to North America and most of the EU.



But in any case it is totally irrelevant to the principle of a Free
Trade Deal
--
bert
  #134   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:34 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , "[email protected]"
writes
On 12/01/2019 11:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2019 21:36, charles wrote:
Free trade comes with free movement of people. eg Norway.

Free trade does not come with free movement of people e.g. Japan.


Its a negotiation, if the other party wants free movement then it does.

Can you give an example of such a Free Trade Deal?
Brexiteers of course think we dictate all the terms, and anything
wanted by the others is a punishment.



--
bert
  #135   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:37 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
We should have been presented with all the effects of leaving (we
know the effects of staying) before being asked to vote. As it is,
we were voting for something unknown - which makes it even more
remarkable that just over 50% of the population voted for it.

Well look how many voted for Blair.

Think very many indeed would love to go back to the prosperity days of
the Blair government.


that was pre-worldwide recession


Doesn't stop this government blaming everything on the last Labour
government.

almost no developed country has fully recovered from that


But many have recovered rather better than us.



Trumps USA has.
The eurozone certainly hasn't with Germany heading for recession and
appalling youth unemployment in the south.
--
bert


  #136   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:40 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
BillD wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
BillD wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tim... wrote:
I have eventually concluded that they rightly come to that conclusion
because, despite us Leavers knowing what we want,

Really? Would that include everything promised by the likes of Farage
and Boris before the referendum?

Neither of them were ever in any position to promise anything given that
Farage couldn‘t even get elected to parliament and Boris wasn‘t even a
minister during the referendum.

So what?


So neither actually PROMISED anything.


Does that mean nothing they 'promised' influenced the way people voted?

Who knows - or are you trying to speak for everyone who voted leave?
--
bert
  #137   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 10:44 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

In article , T i m
writes
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 17:33:45 -0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

snip

My German collegues in particular see horrifying mirrors of
their own 1930's politics in the UK at the moment, and that
both scares them, and makes them wonder how the hell the UK
ended up going down that route.


I think it's a combination of electorate political apathy (because we
are / were generally doing ok as a country) and therefore gullibility
/ frustration, frustration generated by bogus information from a
minority of fanatics.

Proof?
In general, the civil service / authorities keep the country ticking
over. Because things can change slowly, 'the government' didn't start
to push for more housing and other services to account for the rising
population (an ever aging population).

Proof?
Then the fanatics popped up, told the gullible that all the problems
were down to immigration / foreigners / 'The EU' and before they had
really thought it through, too many had put a tick in the Leave box,
throwing the baby out with the bathwater. ;-(

Proof?
It's proven people with make things mean what they want them to mean
(confirmation bias) and it was the (fanatic mainly) Leavers who have
demonstrated this the most in spite of all the evidence against their
crusade.

Proof?
Many of the Remainers didn't not vote against Leave as such, they were
just saying they weren't sure enough that Leaving was a good thing so
didn't want to risk it.

Oh let's have proof of that. You know why people voted?
And as many again didn't vote at all as for some there wasn't an
option that matched their position / understanding of it all.

Proof?
The tribal thing hen kicked in and so people played the 'defending
their coin toss decision' because there were no real facts to pin any
of it down.

Proof?
So 2+ years later we are still in the same position because it really
wasn't what 'most people' wanted in the first place (whatever you
imagined 'it' to be ITRW).

Cheers, T i m

As usual nothing to back up your wild claims to know why people voted
the way they did. Only your "opinion" which counts for absolutely
nothing.
--
bert
  #138   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 11:31 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

On 13/01/2019 21:33, bert wrote:
In article , BillD
writes
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
** The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2019 21:36, charles wrote:
Free trade comes with free movement of people. eg Norway.
Free trade does not come with free movement of people e.g. Japan.

Japan doesn't have borders with the EU.

Within the EU, you can hop on a bus and go to any country for casual
work.
For very little cost.


In practice most fly now and there isn’t much difference in the cheapest
fares from the UK to North America and most of the EU.



But in any case it is totally irrelevant to the principle of a Free
Trade Deal


Your principles are irrelevant if the other parties don't agree.

  #139   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 11:33 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

On 13/01/2019 21:34, bert wrote:
In article , "[email protected]"
writes
On 12/01/2019 11:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2019 21:36, charles wrote:
Free trade comes with free movement of people. eg Norway.
Free trade does not come with free movement of people e.g. Japan.


Its a negotiation, if the other party wants free movement then it does.

Can you give an example of such a Free Trade Deal?


Norway, etc.
They get free trade because they already have free movement.
Brexiteers frequently suggest a deal similar.


  #140   Report Post  
Old January 13th 19, 11:40 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Looking at Brexit from the other direction

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 21:40:50 +0000, bert wrote:

snip


Does that mean nothing they 'promised' influenced the way people voted?

Who knows - or are you trying to speak for everyone who voted leave?


Shame they wasted all that money and effort on the Leave campaign if
it didn't make any difference?

Cheers, T i m




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