newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.


Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles. I appreciate the wires
or fibre version can be damaged by wind,thieves ,branches etc but by
putting them in ducts under the road which openreach are doing for many
sections it seems that the communication industry is increasing its
reliability at the expense of those that use the roads.
This road I use regularly is an example, used to have a pole run but now at
regular intervals you have some closely spaced man holes like this set.

https://goo.gl/maps/LiaVak6gK8B2

In some places they are already sinking and the road breaking up around
them so the journey on what was once a reasonable road is now thump thump
thump every few hundred yards.
And when they do need attention Murphy and his mates have to set up the set
of traffic lights for a couple of days and hinder everyone whereas one time
a man or two in yellow or earlier a green vans quickly stuck a ladder up
the pole and got it done fairly quickly.

Oh and on such country roads you could get an indication of how sharp
bends in the distance were by watching the line of poles though I accept
that would be an unintentional fringe benefit.

GH

On 13/09/18 23:48, Marland wrote:
Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles.

Vulnerability to damage.

Ouside of town where there are no pavements teh ducts run under verges
anbyway.


--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/09/18 23:48, Marland wrote:
Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles.

Vulnerability to damage.

Agreed ,but i still dont think the the telecoms industry should get
security for its infrastructure if by doing so they create situations
where road users and residents near loose manholes become affected.

Outside of town where there are no pavements teh ducts run under verges
anbyway.

The photo in the link I gave was on a road well out town, no verge for
miles so they dug the trench and laid access point manholes in what had
been a reasonable road surface buggering it for probably the next 50-100
Years. They could have negotiated with farmers etc and installed them just
the other side of the hedge right in the edge of the fields, but that would
cost money. Cheaper for openreach to **** up the road and peoples
suspensions for decades to come.


GH

Round here although properties are served by poles the connection from the poles goes underground to the street cabinet. The only places I have seen cabling totally supplied by poles is in country areas and even then it disappears underground at some point to connect to the main trunk lines. I am surprised there are manholes in the road the vast majority are usually in the pavement perhaps the manhole ended in the road following a road widening. Even Virgin extending their network in the vicinity were forced to dig a trench along a road but the manholes ended up at either end in the footpath.

Richard

On 14/09/2018 12:02, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Round here although properties are served by poles the connection from the poles goes underground to the street cabinet. The only places I have seen cabling totally supplied by poles is in country areas and even then it disappears underground at some point to connect to the main trunk lines. I am surprised there are manholes in the road the vast majority are usually in the pavement perhaps the manhole ended in the road following a road widening. Even Virgin extending their network in the vicinity were forced to dig a trench along a road but the manholes ended up at either end in the footpath.

Here we have a section of road connecting two towns. It is about 6 miles
long, bordered by fields, grassy areas and the like for all exept 200m
of its length. Some years ago we had many, many months of disruption as
they entirely resurfaced it, with massive queues at rushhour. A couple
of weeks after they finished it, contractors dug a trench, snaking back
and forth along the entire length of it, to give one of the towns fibre TV!

SteveW

In article , Marland
scribeth thus
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.
Oh and on such country roads you could get an indication of how sharp
bends in the distance were by watching the line of poles though I accept
that would be an unintentional fringe benefit.

GH

Had a biker mate once come of the road and hit a phone pole, he won't
ever do it again mind;(...
--
Tony Sayer

On 13/09/2018 23:48, Marland wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.


Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles. I appreciate the wires
or fibre version can be damaged by wind,thieves ,branches etc but by
putting them in ducts under the road which openreach are doing for many
sections it seems that the communication industry is increasing its
reliability at the expense of those that use the roads.
This road I use regularly is an example, used to have a pole run but now at
regular intervals you have some closely spaced man holes like this set.

https://goo.gl/maps/LiaVak6gK8B2

In some places they are already sinking and the road breaking up around
them so the journey on what was once a reasonable road is now thump thump
thump every few hundred yards.
And when they do need attention Murphy and his mates have to set up the set
of traffic lights for a couple of days and hinder everyone whereas one time
a man or two in yellow or earlier a green vans quickly stuck a ladder up
the pole and got it done fairly quickly.

They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for the
right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper than
keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account wasted
time for people using the roads.

SteveW

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 13/09/2018 23:48, Marland wrote:
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles. I appreciate the
wires
or fibre version can be damaged by wind,thieves ,branches etc but by
putting them in ducts under the road which openreach are doing for many
sections it seems that the communication industry is increasing its
reliability at the expense of those that use the roads.
This road I use regularly is an example, used to have a pole run but now at
regular intervals you have some closely spaced man holes like this set.
https://goo.gl/maps/LiaVak6gK8B2
In some places they are already sinking and the road breaking up
around
them so the journey on what was once a reasonable road is now thump thump
thump every few hundred yards.
And when they do need attention Murphy and his mates have to set up the set
of traffic lights for a couple of days and hinder everyone whereas one time
a man or two in yellow or earlier a green vans quickly stuck a ladder up
the pole and got it done fairly quickly.

They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for the
right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper than
keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account wasted
time for people using the roads.

Maybe:-)

One of the nice things about utilities needing to cross your land is
that they are obliged to pay the costs of professional advice:
solicitors, land agents etc.

I have BT, National grid (8" medium pressure gas), several 11kV
underground and overhead supplies. Also about 8km of public rights of
way. This is a small farm.

--
Tim Lamb

They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for the
right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper than
keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account wasted
time for people using the roads.

Maybe:-)

One of the nice things about utilities needing to cross your land is
that they are obliged to pay the costs of professional advice:
solicitors, land agents etc.

I have BT, National grid (8" medium pressure gas), several 11kV
underground and overhead supplies. Also about 8km of public rights of
way. This is a small farm.


Its interesting to think that why do the Yanks still insist on
everything overhead especially in hurricane hit areas all that wind and
yes that water too but its not impossible to make watertight service
cabinets save a lot of time in the clear up afterwards, repairing all
the windswept lines down!..
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for the
right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper than
keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account wasted
time for people using the roads.

Maybe:-)

One of the nice things about utilities needing to cross your land is
that they are obliged to pay the costs of professional advice:
solicitors, land agents etc.

I have BT, National grid (8" medium pressure gas), several 11kV
underground and overhead supplies. Also about 8km of public rights of
way. This is a small farm.


Its interesting to think that why do the Yanks still insist on
everything overhead especially in hurricane hit areas all that wind and
yes that water too but its not impossible to make watertight service
cabinets save a lot of time in the clear up afterwards, repairing all
the windswept lines down!..

The problem is that with underground power, you have to
shut the power off as soon as there is even ankle deep
water in the streets. You don’t with power on street poles.

They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for
the right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper
than keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account
wasted time for people using the roads.

SteveW

And especially under busy junctions - where we also have compley drain and
services junctions! (ant traffic light signal cables. It would mean
planning though!

Steve Walker wrote:
They should be ducting them ALONGSIDE the road instead of under it.
However I presume that that'd mean extra cost in paying farmers for the
right to do so. Long term that might well work out a lot cheaper than
keep repairing the roads ... especially if you took into account wasted
time for people using the roads.

The thing with that is that they'd need to negotiate with each
landowner separately - and if one doesn't want to co-operate there's
not much they can do. Meanwhile they have a legal right to put services
in the highway and don't have to negotiate with anyone.

Mike

On 13 Sep 2018 22:48:48 GMT, Marland
wrote:

DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.


Outside of built up areas what is wrong with poles. I appreciate the wires
or fibre version can be damaged by wind,thieves ,branches etc but by
putting them in ducts under the road which openreach are doing for many
sections it seems that the communication industry is increasing its
reliability at the expense of those that use the roads.
This road I use regularly is an example, used to have a pole run but now at
regular intervals you have some closely spaced man holes like this set.

https://goo.gl/maps/LiaVak6gK8B2

In some places they are already sinking and the road breaking up around
them so the journey on what was once a reasonable road is now thump thump
thump every few hundred yards.

Yes, you have my sympathy here, although under the circumstances you
are describing your only plagued by thumpety-thumps of your own
making. Occupiers of this house get treated the the thumpety-thumps of
every vehicle that passes by.


And when they do need attention Murphy and his mates have to set up the set
of traffic lights for a couple of days and hinder everyone whereas one time
a man or two in yellow or earlier a green vans quickly stuck a ladder up
the pole and got it done fairly quickly.

Oh and on such country roads you could get an indication of how sharp
bends in the distance were by watching the line of poles though I accept
that would be an unintentional fringe benefit.

GH

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

These defects are usually caused when the road is resurfaced. They are not
inherent in the original design. The cover is usa=ually bedded in sand to
get the level correct, but rain wshed the sand away and things go wrong.

Pavements aren't usually very wide. Think of trying to get electricity,
gas, telephones, foul drains and storm drains all underneath.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come
up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

These defects are usually caused when the road is resurfaced. They are
not
inherent in the original design. The cover is usa=ually bedded in sand to
get the level correct, but rain wshed the sand away and things go wrong.

Pavements aren't usually very wide. Think of trying to get electricity,
gas, telephones, foul drains and storm drains all underneath.

Works fine here, even with the narrowest suburban streets.

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 19:22:54 +1000, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:

These defects are usually caused when the road is resurfaced. They are
not
inherent in the original design. The cover is usa=ually bedded in sand to
get the level correct, but rain wshed the sand away and things go wrong.

Pavements aren't usually very wide. Think of trying to get electricity,
gas, telephones, foul drains and storm drains all underneath.

Works fine here, even with the narrowest suburban streets.

Senile Rot now quickly turned road and pavement specialist! Start TEACHING
them again, moron! LOL

--
pamela about Rot Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID:

On 14/09/2018 08:43, charles wrote:
In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

These defects are usually caused when the road is resurfaced. They are not
inherent in the original design. The cover is usa=ually bedded in sand to
get the level correct, but rain wshed the sand away and things go wrong.

Pavements aren't usually very wide. Think of trying to get electricity,
gas, telephones, foul drains and storm drains all underneath.

Half down one side and half down the other. Connections to houses on
other side to be buildt before the road or for later additions moled.

SteveW

In message , Steve Walker
writes
On 14/09/2018 08:43, charles wrote:
In article 2,
DerbyBorn wrote:
newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built
manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.
These defects are usually caused when the road is resurfaced. They
are not
inherent in the original design. The cover is usa=ually bedded in sand to
get the level correct, but rain wshed the sand away and things go wrong.
Pavements aren't usually very wide. Think of trying to get
electricity,
gas, telephones, foul drains and storm drains all underneath.

Half down one side and half down the other. Connections to houses on
other side to be buildt before the road or for later additions moled.

We had a water main moled across the lane separating the farm yards.
Much trepidation as in a single track highway with banks and hedges
there is:- 3ph. 11kV, 8" gas, 12" surface water, 110mm sewer, 3ph. 415V
and domestic gas!

--
Tim Lamb

On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:45:55 GMT, DerbyBorn
wrote:

newshound wrote in newsOOdndQsM7d-
:

On 06/09/2018 12:30, mechanic wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 21:53:18 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 05/09/2018 21:08, Mike Halmarack wrote:


Sand does sound easy and more socially acceptable.

Not only that, it seems to have worked wonderfully well.
Thanks for the tip Colin, I would've never thought of that solution.

I have to say, I'm not sure how long it would have taken me to come up
with it, and I'm supposed to know about such things.

Why are you supposed to know about such things?

Because, over the years, I have done a lot of analysis of friction and
also the effects of debris and wear in what are often complicated
mechanical systems. I am even doing some at the moment.


I suppose casting defects could be an issue.

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking and crumbling. Winter seems to hit them badly. We should
make more use of the pavements.

Difficult around these parts as the pavement is where people park
their cars to avoid reducing traffic flow on the road.
--

Mike

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

DerbyBorn wrote:

It makes me wonder how many road repairs are due to poorly built manhole
"shafts" sinking

Here they have a habit of placing wide speed humps so that the "down"
side of them is adjacent to a gulley grid, this means every vehicle
hammers on the grid and they sink ...