Dunno what became of my first post on this subject; let's try again...

Is the treated timber you get from timber merchants treated more than
just superficially? Will sanding the somewhat rough sawn surfaces damage
the rot-proofing in any way? I'm planning on painting it you see...

On 21/08/2018 23:02, Chris wrote:

Dunno what became of my first post on this subject; let's try again...

Is the treated timber you get from timber merchants treated more than
just superficially? Will sanding the somewhat rough sawn surfaces damage
the rot-proofing in any way? I'm planning on painting it you see...

Its usually pressure treated - so the treatment penetrates a few mm into
the wood. So as long as you don't sand too heavily it will retain some
treatment. (although don't breathe the dust!)


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Tuesday, 21 August 2018 23:02:46 UTC+1, Chris wrote:
Dunno what became of my first post on this subject; let's try again...

Is the treated timber you get from timber merchants treated more than
just superficially? Will sanding the somewhat rough sawn surfaces damage
the rot-proofing in any way? I'm planning on painting it you see...

Thicker stuff is pressure treated eg posts.
ie put in a vacuum chamber, sprayed and when the air is admitted the preservative is driven right in.

Thinner stuff is just dipped and allowed to drain off., eg fencing panels.

The problem arises because they no longer use the traditional arsenic/copper (banned)
So stuff has gone from being virtually indestructible to lasting five or six years.


As the treatment is usually green, you can see how far in it's gone on the cut ends. Usually not far.
Cut ends should be treated by hand brush & wood preserver.

There is some confusion here. Historically, the only truly effective treatment was CCA (water borne copper/chrome/arsenic under pressure) where heavy metal ions combined with hydroxyl groups in the timber and thus was chemically fixed. The German EEC eco greens @@@@ed that up for us. The modern equivalent is not as effective and any cut or sanded ends MUST be site treated after cutting.
The treatment requires air to be REMOVED first not pushed in . It is a double vacuum process.
Double vac USED to be with organic solvents but that too has been banned any it is now water based aqua vac. (For joinery) neither process should be sanded or cut. For fence posts the only effective treatment now available is creosote in accordance with the right CEN or BS number

Well that depends. I think looking at some of the bits cut off on my new
fence that it penetrates to a point. A point very variable but not all the
way through acne I hope the fence builders did slosh something on the ends
before they put them up!
My guess is that its dipped in something or other.
Brian

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"Chris" wrote in message
news

Dunno what became of my first post on this subject; let's try again...

Is the treated timber you get from timber merchants treated more than
just superficially? Will sanding the somewhat rough sawn surfaces damage
the rot-proofing in any way? I'm planning on painting it you see...

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 00:16:44 -0700, cjdgeorge wrote:

There is some confusion here. Historically, the only truly effective
treatment was CCA (water borne copper/chrome/arsenic under pressure)
where heavy metal ions combined with hydroxyl groups in the timber and
thus was chemically fixed. The German EEC eco greens @@@@ed that up for
us.

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!



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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Thicker stuff is pressure treated eg posts.
ie put in a vacuum chamber, sprayed and when the air is admitted the preservative is driven right in.

Sucked right in? ;-)

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
John Rumm writes:
On 21/08/2018 23:02, Chris wrote:

Dunno what became of my first post on this subject; let's try again...

Is the treated timber you get from timber merchants treated more than
just superficially? Will sanding the somewhat rough sawn surfaces damage
the rot-proofing in any way? I'm planning on painting it you see...

Its usually pressure treated - so the treatment penetrates a few mm into
the wood. So as long as you don't sand too heavily it will retain some
treatment. (although don't breathe the dust!)

When I was buying timber ~12 years ago, the only treated timber available
which still had any effective treatment applied was roofing battens.
Effective treatment was no longer permitted to be used on anything else.
Rules may have changed since then, but almost certainly less favorably.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 22/08/2018 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!

"Leaving" in name only it would seem so ultimately nothing will change.

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:07:33 +0100, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

On 22/08/2018 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!

"Leaving" in name only it would seem so ultimately nothing will change.

If we can get shot of the quisling May then things might well improve.
Get shot of May; install the Mogster. ;-)




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the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

On 22/08/2018 14:15, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:07:33 +0100, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

On 22/08/2018 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!

"Leaving" in name only it would seem so ultimately nothing will change.

If we can get shot of the quisling May then things might well improve.
Get shot of May; install the Mogster. ;-)

Ultimately I can't see it making much difference for timber. We import
most of it, and the manufactures will make it to EU specs anyway.


--
Cheers,

John.

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"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
news
On 22/08/2018 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!

"Leaving" in name only it would seem so ultimately nothing will change.

Leaving in name only would mean that the UK could ignore EU
directives like that and do what it likes with timber in the UK.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 22/08/2018 14:15, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:07:33 +0100, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

On 22/08/2018 10:43, Cursitor Doom wrote:

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.
Still, we're leaving so... Rejoice!

"Leaving" in name only it would seem so ultimately nothing will change.

If we can get shot of the quisling May then things might well improve.
Get shot of May; install the Mogster. ;-)

Ultimately I can't see it making much difference for timber. We import
most of it, and the manufactures will make it to EU specs anyway.

But it could be treated with anything the UK likes after being
imported and can be imported tariff free from the rest of the
world that is free to ignore what the EU allows treatment wise.

In article ,
Cursitor Doom writes:
On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 00:16:44 -0700, cjdgeorge wrote:

There is some confusion here. Historically, the only truly effective
treatment was CCA (water borne copper/chrome/arsenic under pressure)
where heavy metal ions combined with hydroxyl groups in the timber and
thus was chemically fixed. The German EEC eco greens @@@@ed that up for
us.

Yes indeedy. The EU have ****ed up far more than that for us over the
decades. All the great stuff you could rely on in days gone by is now
largely banned.

They are banned by all major countries and trading blocks in the world.
There is zero chance of us allowing their reintroduction.
Nothing to do with the EU, but science discovering they rapidly leach
out into the environment and end up in food as well as other damage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:08:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Thicker stuff is pressure treated eg posts.
ie put in a vacuum chamber, sprayed and when the air is admitted the preservative is driven right in.

Sucked right in? ;-)

Pushed right in - enjoy!

Vacuum inside, atmospheric pressure outside, liquid pushed in by pressure.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:38:49 +0100, PeterC
wrote:

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:08:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:43:49 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

snip

Thicker stuff is pressure treated eg posts.
ie put in a vacuum chamber, sprayed and when the air is admitted the preservative is driven right in.

Sucked right in? ;-)

Pushed right in - enjoy!

Vacuum inside, atmospheric pressure outside, liquid pushed in by pressure.

Yeahbut the 'preservative is only pushed in *because* of the vacuum?

If you have a pressure vessel at atmospheric, add preservative then
pressurise it, you drive preservative in. When you return the vessel
to atmospheric then some preservative will be sucked back out.

If you have a pressure vessel, reduce the pressure inside the vessel,
introduce the preservative and then allow the vessel to return to
atmospheric, the preservative would be sucked in.

It's described as 'sucked' (by me anyway g) because of the relative
pressures and the direction of the preservative?


Cheers, T i m

You do not get any leaching once the timber is fixed after 72 hours of curing. There is a CHEMICAL bond with the hydroxyl groups in the wood. That was the beauty of CCA. It was political joe towing to the Greens -not evidence or science. Disposal was cited as a €œreason€�.
The present processing is more oron to leaching. Sadly, even if we leave, it is unlikely that any Gov will have the balls to allow a CCA plant a licence...