I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

Its not the cps its the voltage it runs on. All the hz or cps means is that
on a uk mains it will run slower. In the old days of turntables and tape
decks powered by synchronous motors you often had to change the pulley to
compensate one way or the other, the motor was the same either way.
The brushed motors if the same voltage is applied will probably not make
much difference.
However as I say, many countries use lower voltages at 60hz and if you
bring them over here you will need some kind of transformer to run them
without burning them out. The other way around they will lack power and revs
but are not likely to burn out unless you stall them.

Brian

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"Arthur Ravenscroft" wrote in message
...
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50
Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is
used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will
it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.
Heaters, no difference.

60Hz is marginally more efficient in the power station than 50Hz.

Voltage differences are the ones to watch out for.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the
50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt
out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is
used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will
it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.
Heaters, no difference.

60Hz is marginally more efficient in the power station than 50Hz.

Voltage differences are the ones to watch out for.


Also, it almost certainly won't affect electronic equipment with a power
supply and low-voltage supply to motors (eg tape transport, record
turntable, motors for turning CD etc), because power supplies, either within
the appliance or external as for a laptop, can cope with either frequency
(and often all voltages between 120 in USA and 220-240 in Europe.

Appliances that will be affected are those with mains-synchronous motors
which will run 60/50 = 20% faster. Also (and I was gobsmacked to learn this)
quite a lot of mains digital clocks (eg in cookers) sync off the mains
frequency, not a quartz crystal. Hence the story a few weeks ago about mains
clocks running too fast or slow (I forget which) because the mains in
mainland Europe had not been constrained within the normal limits of +/- a
tight tolerance, with no nett gain or loss over a 24-hour period.

Voltage difference is a killer: for a resistive load, a 120V appliance will
use 4x power on 240V - unless you use a step-down transformer.

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

depends on the motor.


NT

On 23/05/2018 15:24, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its not the cps its the voltage it runs on. All the hz or cps means is that
on a uk mains it will run slower. In the old days of turntables and tape
decks powered by synchronous motors you often had to change the pulley to
compensate one way or the other, the motor was the same either way.

Not quite true. Some American stuff is made to only work on 60Hz 110v ac
and relies on either mechanical resonance at 60Hz or very marginal
transformer/electromagnets that go into saturation on UK 50Hz mains.
Those awful US razors heavily advertised round Xmas being an example.

My first job in industry was to work out why a particular US made colour
monitor was inclined to catch fire from time to time in the UK. Answer
the PSU had never been designed to cope with UK mains frequency and
frame rates. It worked well enough when used intermittently that there
were a lot of them installed before it showed up as a serious problem...

Everything Japanese is designed for either frequency since half the main
island is on US generator kit and the other on British!

The brushed motors if the same voltage is applied will probably not make
much difference.

However as I say, many countries use lower voltages at 60hz and if you
bring them over here you will need some kind of transformer to run them
without burning them out. The other way around they will lack power and revs
but are not likely to burn out unless you stall them.

You can buy auto (or isolating) transformers to take UK mains down to
appropriate US or Japanese voltages. I'd be wary of US kit powered on UK
mains - their insulation standards are not really up to it either.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 23/05/2018 15:25, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.

A motor designed for 50Hz will run faster but with less torque on 60Hz.
It seldom has any problematic effect except on turntables and clocks.

A motor designed for 60Hz and cut to the bone on price (like some US kit
often is) will die horribly on 50Hz mains since the magnetic cores wil
saturate at around 18ms and become a restive load for 10% of the cycle.

US mains razors are particularly cheap and nasty designed only for 60Hz.

Heaters, no difference.

60Hz is marginally more efficient in the power station than 50Hz.

Voltage differences are the ones to watch out for.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.

A motor designed for 50Hz will run faster but with less torque on 60Hz. It
seldom has any problematic effect except on turntables and clocks.

A motor designed for 60Hz and cut to the bone on price (like some US kit
often is) will die horribly on 50Hz mains since the magnetic cores wil
saturate at around 18ms and become a restive load for 10% of the cycle.

US mains razors are particularly cheap and nasty designed only for 60Hz.

That's a good point. Equipment sold in Europe is more multi-standard than US
equipment. My sister bought a multi-standard VCR (capable of recording as
well as playing in both NTSC and PAL) before she left to live in the US for
a while, because she'd found that multi-standard equipment is a lot harder
to obtain over there. She wanted to be able to watch tapes of her favourite
programmes that we sent her from the UK as well as to record US programmes.

On Wed, 23 May 2018 16:45:32 +0100
"NY" wrote:

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing
overload.

A motor designed for 50Hz will run faster but with less torque on
60Hz. It seldom has any problematic effect except on turntables and
clocks.

A motor designed for 60Hz and cut to the bone on price (like some
US kit often is) will die horribly on 50Hz mains since the magnetic
cores wil saturate at around 18ms and become a restive load for 10%
of the cycle.

US mains razors are particularly cheap and nasty designed only for
60Hz.

That's a good point. Equipment sold in Europe is more multi-standard
than US equipment. My sister bought a multi-standard VCR (capable of
recording as well as playing in both NTSC and PAL) before she left to
live in the US for a while, because she'd found that multi-standard
equipment is a lot harder to obtain over there. She wanted to be able
to watch tapes of her favourite programmes that we sent her from the
UK as well as to record US programmes.


There is a place near Chicago that specialises in multi-standard,
multi-country AV equipment. If she needs it, I can dig the name out.

--
Davey.

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

Thanks for the help.

On Wed, 23 May 2018 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 23 May 2018 15:20:11 UTC+1, Arthur Ravenscroft wrote:
I have experience of using a power tool abroad before I was aware of the 50 Hz & 60 Hz differences. As a result a Worx mini-power saw motor burnt out.
So my question is about a small kitchen appliance thats rated at 60Hz is used here in the UK and we've been using it for more than 10 years. Will it be using more electricity than it should?

Thanks.

Arthur.

It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.
Heaters, no difference.

My cousin brought a synchronous clock from Canada to Europe. From
that point onwards time seemed to drag :-)

Tsk, tsk!

All this misinformation about induction motors (synchronous or not) and
50/60Hz supplies. :-)

A basic lesson and some truths about running such motors designed for
60Hz 120v on 50Hz 100v supplies and vice versa, assuming the speed
differences are either of little to no importance or else taken care of
by a gearing adjustment.

If you're planning on using a 120v 60Hz induction motor on 50Hz supply,
you simply need to reduce the voltage in the same ratio. The torque will
remain the same although you will obviously lose 20% power capability
(and an increased risk of on load stalling if the motor rating was
marginal to begin with).

Going the other way, you'll need use a 120 to 288 volt 60Hz step up
transformer to power a 240v 50Hz motor if you wish to maintain the torque
output at the higher speed or else accept a lower maximum torque output
if merely doubling up the 120v to 240v - not always advisable if the
torque rating of the motor is marginal to begin with.

For record players and tape decks that rely upon the mains frequency to
calibrate the speed of their induction motors (asynchronous as well as
synchronous - either type can be used), as well as the obvious pulley
change, there should also be a matching voltage change included.

However, since the motors are well over-rated for this application in
order to minimise speed variations, in the case of asynchronous motors
particularly, as well as to minimise slip in belt drives, such a luxury
feature may be omitted in the interests of 'economy of manufacture',
acceptable where the motor is designed to cope with a 50Hz supply
frequency and 240 volt supply which will allow it to run faster on a 220
to 240v 60Hz supply but will obviously still require a 120 to 240 volt
step up transformer if designed for both 120v and 240v regions.

--
Johnny B Good

On 23/05/2018 16:45, NY wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
news
It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.

A motor designed for 50Hz will run faster but with less torque on
60Hz. It seldom has any problematic effect except on turntables and
clocks.

A motor designed for 60Hz and cut to the bone on price (like some US
kit often is) will die horribly on 50Hz mains since the magnetic cores
wil saturate at around 18ms and become a restive load for 10% of the
cycle.

US mains razors are particularly cheap and nasty designed only for 60Hz.

That's a good point. Equipment sold in Europe is more multi-standard
than US equipment. My sister bought a multi-standard VCR (capable of
recording as well as playing in both NTSC and PAL) before she left to
live in the US for a while, because she'd found that multi-standard
equipment is a lot harder to obtain over there. She wanted to be able to
watch tapes of her favourite programmes that we sent her from the UK as
well as to record US programmes.

You only have to look at which countries compete in the World Series.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"Davey" wrote in message
news
That's a good point. Equipment sold in Europe is more multi-standard
than US equipment. My sister bought a multi-standard VCR (capable of
recording as well as playing in both NTSC and PAL) before she left to
live in the US for a while, because she'd found that multi-standard
equipment is a lot harder to obtain over there. She wanted to be able
to watch tapes of her favourite programmes that we sent her from the
UK as well as to record US programmes.


There is a place near Chicago that specialises in multi-standard,
multi-country AV equipment. If she needs it, I can dig the name out.


This was a long time ago - late 90s. She and her family have been back in
the UK since about 2000. But thanks for the offer.

On Wed, 23 May 2018 19:02:23 +0100
"NY" wrote:

"Davey" wrote in message
news
That's a good point. Equipment sold in Europe is more
multi-standard than US equipment. My sister bought a
multi-standard VCR (capable of recording as well as playing in
both NTSC and PAL) before she left to live in the US for a while,
because she'd found that multi-standard equipment is a lot harder
to obtain over there. She wanted to be able to watch tapes of her
favourite programmes that we sent her from the UK as well as to
record US programmes.

There is a place near Chicago that specialises in multi-standard,
multi-country AV equipment. If she needs it, I can dig the name
out.


This was a long time ago - late 90s. She and her family have been
back in the UK since about 2000. But thanks for the offer.


They beat us to it by about 10 years, then.

--
Davey.

On 23/05/2018 17:54, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 23 May 2018 07:25:28 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

It primarily effects motors.
Many will run faster on 60Hz than 50Hz so sometimes causing overload.
Heaters, no difference.

My cousin brought a synchronous clock from Canada to Europe. From
that point onwards time seemed to drag :-)

My boss brought a clock radio from US to UK (in the days they weren't
available over here) and bought an auto-transformer to work it on our
supply. I didn't bother to warn him that if would run rather slow.

--
Max Demian