Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

TW

Have you thought about a second hand stairlift?
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"TimW" wrote in message
news
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and installing
a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting specialists
in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of specifying the
requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and supervising trades
myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

TW

On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:13:32 +0100, TimW wrote:

Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

We have a local supplier of aids for the elderly and infirm, and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago).

We went for a wet room with a moulded shower tray which was part of the
floor - basically a dished piece of flooring with a drain at the lowest
point. The whole room was then "tanked" with a waterproof flooring which
also went up the walls.

What we didn't do (and should have) was put a fall on the rest of the
floor so any water falling outside the shower tray would run into it.

It very much depends on your local area, but with luck you will find a
specialist shop which sells all manner of things including special toilets
and grab rails as well as shower fittings.

Remember to make the door wide enough for a wheelchair.

We aren't infirm (well not much so far) but when we revamped the back of
the house with included a disabled friendly wet room so we could live on
the ground floor only if we wanted.

There is room for a stair lift but at the moment we have a standard
bathroom upstairs and a wet room downstairs.

Stair lifts are O.K. but I wouldn't want to have to wait for one if I was
desperate for a wee!

Also, if you are wheelchair bound you would presumably have to transfer on
and off the stair lift at the bottom and top plus a transfer on and off
the toilet which could be more of a toil than just transferring on and off
the toilet downstairs.

You would probably have to convert the upstairs to a wet room as well at
some point.

IMHO it is more flexible to have a wet room downstairs and a stair lift as
well if you want access to the upper floor.


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Friday, 20 April 2018 14:56:15 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:13:32 +0100, TimW wrote:

Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

We have a local supplier of aids for the elderly and infirm, and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago).

We went for a wet room with a moulded shower tray which was part of the
floor - basically a dished piece of flooring with a drain at the lowest
point. The whole room was then "tanked" with a waterproof flooring which
also went up the walls.

What we didn't do (and should have) was put a fall on the rest of the
floor so any water falling outside the shower tray would run into it.

It very much depends on your local area, but with luck you will find a
specialist shop which sells all manner of things including special toilets
and grab rails as well as shower fittings.

Remember to make the door wide enough for a wheelchair.

We aren't infirm (well not much so far) but when we revamped the back of
the house with included a disabled friendly wet room so we could live on
the ground floor only if we wanted.

There is room for a stair lift but at the moment we have a standard
bathroom upstairs and a wet room downstairs.

Stair lifts are O.K. but I wouldn't want to have to wait for one if I was
desperate for a wee!

Also, if you are wheelchair bound you would presumably have to transfer on
and off the stair lift at the bottom and top plus a transfer on and off
the toilet which could be more of a toil than just transferring on and off
the toilet downstairs.

You would probably have to convert the upstairs to a wet room as well at
some point.

IMHO it is more flexible to have a wet room downstairs and a stair lift as
well if you want access to the upper floor.


Cheers



Dave R

Failing to put a fall on the whole of a wetroom floor is a common & stupid mistake. It leads to floods. Don't do it!


NT

TimW formulated the question :
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and installing a
sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting specialists in
who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of specifying the
requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and supervising trades
myself.

Have you thought about installing a stair-lift?

TimW wrote:
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of
getting specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and
thinking of specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps
etc) and supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a
decent trade price?

TW

There could be government grants for this sort of thing?

On Friday, 20 April 2018 14:13:35 UTC+1, TimW wrote:
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. ...
Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly

A wet room is a lot easier to use if a wheelchair becomes a necessity, as a 'shower wheelchair' can be wheeled in and out.

A "comfort height" toilet and space near the basin for sitting down while teeth brushing might also be useful.

Screwfix et al do "Doc M" easier access stuff.

Owain

On 20/04/2018 14:56, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:13:32 +0100, TimW wrote:

Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

We have a local supplier of aids for the elderly and infirm, and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago).

Yes this still applies.

We went for a wet room with a moulded shower tray which was part of the
floor - basically a dished piece of flooring with a drain at the lowest
point. The whole room was then "tanked" with a waterproof flooring which
also went up the walls.

Yes I did as well. By far the best solution. better for washing the dogs
as well.


What we didn't do (and should have) was put a fall on the rest of the
floor so any water falling outside the shower tray would run into it.

Yes I took advice from a so-called expert and didn't do that. I really
regret it now.


It very much depends on your local area, but with luck you will find a
specialist shop which sells all manner of things including special toilets
and grab rails as well as shower fittings.

Get onto the council and see what they will give for free. Even if you
have more than £10 in the bank they will give you handrails, a fold-up
seat, etc.


Remember to make the door wide enough for a wheelchair.

Yes.

The electrical regs say that everything in the wetroom has to be on the
same circuit, even the lights.


IMHO it is more flexible to have a wet room downstairs and a stair lift as
well if you want access to the upper floor.

That's what we did and it's a good solution.

Bill

On 20/04/2018 16:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

That was my other motivation for thinking of getting a pre-made tray. It
can handle the fall internally, as long as it's installed level (if that
makes sense).


A pre-made tray for the whole floor?

Bill

On 20/04/2018 16:22, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:


There could be government grants for this sort of thing?


Means tested which ****ed me off. Paid a mint in tax all my life but
they wouldn't give us a cent toward the ramp, the stairlift, or the wetroom.

Bill

Bill Wright wrote:
On 20/04/2018 16:22, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:


There could be government grants for this sort of thing?


Means tested which ****ed me off. Paid a mint in tax all my life but
they wouldn't give us a cent toward the ramp, the stairlift, or the
wetroom.
Bill


Sounds about right for the Land Fit For Heroes.
If you had a black face things could be different.
There are far too many white British people in this country. But slowly and
surely this is being changed.

On 20/04/18 14:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
Have you thought about a second hand stairlift?
Brian

Yes, and it's a good thought, although it's a cottage (albeit a new
staircase in an old cottage) and could be complicated by beams, old,
walls etc.
TW

TimW formulated on Saturday :
Yes, and it's a good thought, although it's a cottage (albeit a new staircase
in an old cottage) and could be complicated by beams, old, walls etc.
TW

There are models of stairlift which will fix the rail on walls, or onto
the stairs. If there are no bends in the stair, installation is very
easy.

On 20/04/18 14:58, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:13:32 +0100, TimW wrote:

Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

TW

Are there any religious objections to a wetroom ? If not, that's probably
the easiest (and most future-proof) solution. Especially as thanks to
modern shoebox housing, they are a non-aids-and-adaptations area of DIY/
Building.

Starting to look into fitting one for SWMBO ...

AFAICS the key element will be the tray/floor. I know there are cut'n'seal
options (if you've ever seen a hospital shower room). But given my luck
with anything liquid, I'd prefer a complete moulding.


a wetroom : - as recommended by many. I just baulk at the idea of
removing the boiler (which stands on the floor in the corner),
excavating the floor, digging through to sewerage outside, relaying CH
pipes (don't they have to be accessible?), rewiring someone said,
retiling the whole room... Blimey, I thought I would just stick in a low
profile shower tray.
TW

On 21/04/18 09:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
TimW formulated on Saturday :
Yes, and it's a good thought, although it's a cottage (albeit a new
staircase in an old cottage) and could be complicated by beams, old,
walls etc.
TW

There are models of stairlift which will fix the rail on walls, or onto
the stairs. If there are no bends in the stair, installation is very easy.

Ta. This merits further research.
TW

On 20/04/2018 14:56, David wrote:
and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago)

But they just bump up their ex-vat price by the same amount,
so your VAT 'saving' is their increased profit.

On 20/04/2018 15:32, wrote:
On Friday, 20 April 2018 14:56:15 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:13:32 +0100, TimW wrote:

Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

We have a local supplier of aids for the elderly and infirm, and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago).

We went for a wet room with a moulded shower tray which was part of the
floor - basically a dished piece of flooring with a drain at the lowest
point. The whole room was then "tanked" with a waterproof flooring which
also went up the walls.

What we didn't do (and should have) was put a fall on the rest of the
floor so any water falling outside the shower tray would run into it.

It very much depends on your local area, but with luck you will find a
specialist shop which sells all manner of things including special toilets
and grab rails as well as shower fittings.

Remember to make the door wide enough for a wheelchair.

We aren't infirm (well not much so far) but when we revamped the back of
the house with included a disabled friendly wet room so we could live on
the ground floor only if we wanted.

There is room for a stair lift but at the moment we have a standard
bathroom upstairs and a wet room downstairs.

Stair lifts are O.K. but I wouldn't want to have to wait for one if I was
desperate for a wee!

Also, if you are wheelchair bound you would presumably have to transfer on
and off the stair lift at the bottom and top plus a transfer on and off
the toilet which could be more of a toil than just transferring on and off
the toilet downstairs.

You would probably have to convert the upstairs to a wet room as well at
some point.

IMHO it is more flexible to have a wet room downstairs and a stair lift as
well if you want access to the upper floor.


Cheers



Dave R

Failing to put a fall on the whole of a wetroom floor is a common & stupid mistake. It leads to floods. Don't do it!


NT


Visit your local Travis Perkins BM. They will have copies of
Professional Buildr and Professional Plumber monthly free
magazines which regularly feature wet-room installations.

http://phpionline.co.uk/category/installation-guides/

On 20/04/2018 20:49, Bill Wright wrote:
On 20/04/2018 16:22, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:


There could be government grants for this sort of thing?


Means tested which ****ed me off. Paid a mint in tax all my life but
they wouldn't give us a cent toward the ramp, the stairlift, or the
wetroom.

Divorce her, leave her with nothing, let her claim the grant and then
remarry her. The money saved will pay for the honeymoon:-)


--
Adam

In article ,
TimW writes:
On 21/04/18 09:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
TimW formulated on Saturday :
Yes, and it's a good thought, although it's a cottage (albeit a new
staircase in an old cottage) and could be complicated by beams, old,
walls etc.
TW

There are models of stairlift which will fix the rail on walls, or onto
the stairs. If there are no bends in the stair, installation is very easy.

Ta. This merits further research.

Second-hand stairlifts are cheap because there are lots around.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
TimW writes:
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

People like BES sell some:
https://www.bes.co.uk/plumbing-suppl...ers/grab-rails

After a few incidents in the family which ended up in hospital,
we had a good chat with the hospital-based social services team,
and they gave lots of excellent advice. They also provided frames
to go around the toilets to give you arm rests for when you sit
and stand back up. When visiting the hospital, I took the
opportunity to look at detail at the disabled toilets and fittings.
The disabled toilets at my current client has a toilet which looks
somewhat like a sit-down bath which I've never seen before. I think
it's basically a bath you can take a **** in and then hose out.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 21/04/2018 20:48, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
TimW writes:
Elderly parents may need to abandon the stairs. We have a good sized
downstairs utility and boiler room so removing some storage and
installing a sink and shower shouldn't be too hard. I am wary of getting
specialists in who will mark everything up x2 at least and thinking of
specifying the requirements and hardware (enclosure, taps etc) and
supervising trades myself.

Where would i look to see what is available for any kind of special
sanitary equipment for the elderly, and where I could get it at a decent
trade price?

People like BES sell some:
https://www.bes.co.uk/plumbing-suppl...ers/grab-rails

Amazingly, grab rails like this are the one bit of kit for the disabled
which doesn't get a silly mark-up. I fitted a couple to my horse van to
make it easier to clamber in the back.

After a few incidents in the family which ended up in hospital,
we had a good chat with the hospital-based social services team,
and they gave lots of excellent advice. They also provided frames
to go around the toilets to give you arm rests for when you sit
and stand back up. When visiting the hospital, I took the
opportunity to look at detail at the disabled toilets and fittings.

Excellent advice, been there done that!

The disabled toilets at my current client has a toilet which looks
somewhat like a sit-down bath which I've never seen before. I think
it's basically a bath you can take a **** in and then hose out.

on 21/04/2018, Andrew Gabriel supposed :
Second-hand stairlifts are cheap because there are lots around.

They are also robustly built and get little usage before they are
pulled out. There are companies who buy and 'refurbish', but they pay
not much more than their scrap value for them.

Jethro_uk submitted this idea :
Stairlifts - unless you are paying $$$$$ require that a person in a
wheelchair transfer to use them (and there's a corresponding free
wheelchair at the other end of the destination).

They are mostly helpful for those with some mobility, but who might
struggle with stairs.

Rather than sourcing from a 'refurb' company, take look on ebay from
private sellers. There are always plenty on there, people find they no
longer need them or move into a house with one fitted and remove it -
they fetch very little money, compared to original cost.

On 21/04/2018 09:49, TimW wrote:

There are models of stairlift which will fix the rail on walls, or
onto the stairs. If there are no bends in the stair, installation is
very easy.

Ta. This merits further research.

My mother had one fitted she's got 2 steps up from the hall followed by
180 degree return up the main stairs then another 180 degree return via
1 step to the landing. The unit is "free standing" and is screwed
directly into stairs (through stair carpet) and floor so no wall or
banister attachments.
The local company came along, measured up then had about 4 weeks wait
for the track/rails to be custom made. Cost around about £4k and works
brilliantly.

Next step was to then change upstairs bathroom into a full wet-room so
no shower trays etc. Also prolonging Mums ability to stay at home, and
every week at home is £1k out of the pockets of the local care home.

On 20/04/2018 22:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 20:47:12 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 20/04/2018 16:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

That was my other motivation for thinking of getting a pre-made tray.
It can handle the fall internally, as long as it's installed level (if
that makes sense).


A pre-made tray for the whole floor?

Bill

Yeah ... I got the impression from a cursory look that there are firms
that would supply them.

It's an interesting thought. Our middle floor wetroom has a flat floor
except for the tray and I'm thinking of making the bathroom on the top
floor into a wetroom. I deffo want some slope on the whole floor.

Bill

On 21/04/2018 11:02, Andrew wrote:
On 20/04/2018 14:56, David wrote:
and if you
fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about 5 years ago)

But they just bump up their ex-vat price by the same amount,
so your VAT 'saving' is their increased profit.

No they don't because you shop around.

Bill

On 21/04/2018 16:24, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 11:02:23 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 20/04/2018 14:56, David wrote:
and if you fill in the correct form you also save on VAT (or did about
5 years ago)

But they just bump up their ex-vat price by the same amount,
so your VAT 'saving' is their increased profit.

If it were just 20%, it'd be understandable.

But quite a lot of "aids and adaptations" seem to have double or treble
mark ups.

I've got a right bee in my bonnet about this. I first realised what a
scam it was when, many years ago, my mother's scooter needed two new
batteries. The disability firm rung me back and quoted a price. Alarmed
I rung the main specialist battery firm in Sheffield. They quoted
exactly half, and the man remarked, "Funny thing, that's the second
enquiry I've had in the last half hour for those particular batteries."

We paid £790 for a small scooter that was was on sale in town for £1,899.

We paid £1,950 for a big scooter that was on sale in town for £3,999.

Bill

On 21/04/2018 09:47, TimW wrote:

a wetroom : - as recommended by many. I just baulk at the idea of
removing the boiler (which stands on the floor in the corner),
excavating the floor, digging through to sewerage outside, relaying CH
pipes (don't they have to be accessible?), rewiring someone said,
retiling the whole room...

You don't tile a wetroom. You fit 8 x 4 boards on the walls, made for
the purpose. You glue them to the walls. They have to be done after the
floor, so they overlap the flooring as it curves up the walls.

You can leave the old tiles on.

Bill

On 24/04/18 03:09, Bill Wright wrote:
You don't tile a wetroom.

I did. Both. They work just fine


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 24/04/2018 07:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/04/18 03:09, Bill Wright wrote:
You don't tile a wetroom.

I did. Both. They work just fine


But there's no need, so you wasted your time.

Bill

On 22/04/2018 10:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 21:14:12 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 21/04/2018 20:48, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Amazingly, grab rails like this are the one bit of kit for the disabled
which doesn't get a silly mark-up. I fitted a couple to my horse van to
make it easier to clamber in the back.

Because they're sold for what they are - tubes with screw holes. Which is
why you pay VAT on them.

The ones I have bought have been quite nicely engineered, perhaps
because of the bad press if they gave away. But I still think they don't
attract the customary mark-up (perhaps because they are mostly sold to
savvy buyers).

Bill Wright wrote:

On 24/04/2018 07:52, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/04/18 03:09, Bill Wright wrote:
You don't tile a wetroom.

I did. Both. They work just fine


But there's no need, so you wasted your time.

Bill

Just occasionally, I find, aesthetic considerations play a part in diy!

--

Roger Hayter