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Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they
can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Quote............ "Now everyone will benefit from the same level of protection, whether you own your home, or rent from a social or private landlord." In practical terms, the law will require private homes to; have at least one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used have at least one smoke alarm in spaces such as hallways and landings have at least one heat alarm in every kitchen have a carbon monoxide detector In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote:
In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote:
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Quote............ "Now everyone will benefit from the same level of protection, whether you own your home, or rent from a social or private landlord." In practical terms, the law will require private homes to; have at least one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used have at least one smoke alarm in spaces such as hallways and landings have at least one heat alarm in every kitchen have a carbon monoxide detector In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... Around here the fire service will fit free smoke alarms for vulnerable people. Even special ones for the deaf and ones where the battery is in a box on the wall so you can change it without steps. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? you can get interlinked battery powered alarms. The batteries don't last as long or they have two batteries. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote:
In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 23:20, ss wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. If battery operated how is the Scottish Parliament going to ensure that the majority of these alarms will not be useless after a few years when those who cannot be bothered at present to fit them will not be bothered to replace the batteries? How is the Scottish Parliament going to police this policy? -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 23:39, alan_m wrote:
How is the Scottish Parliament going to police this policy? Like most other things they do, probably a shambles! |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 21:24:17 +0000, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I couldn't find any non mains powered interlinked ones when I last looked. I had seen some before, eventually put in the (ELV) wiring, then couldn't find them again. I ended up rewiring for mains ones, using 6243Y. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me ﾂ｣1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:20:40 +0000, ss wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. The age limit is reasonable, as that is usually the working life of the detector. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me ﾂ｣1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 21:24:17 +0000, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? "should be" doesn't sound like "have to be"... Just been through this in Treznal. The alarms got a lot cheaper once they were mandated. They are supposed to be installed with 10-year lithium batteries, ideally not user-exchangeable so the alarms will be renewed after 10 years. For those unwilling to drill and plug them to the ceiling, there are self-stick magnet things. Plate sticks to the ceiling, plate sticks to the detector, both magnetically stick together. 2,50ぎ for the magnets, ~10ぎ for a alarm with a then-year battery, if you buy one, less if more. Should one skip the ten-year battery, 4ぎ a piece for the alarms, battery included. Spend more and the alarms are smaller, and less plasticky. Radio-linked alarms are 15ぎ and up. The chimney sweep here offered a fitting service, 40ぎ a pop, but using a better alarm with both heat and smoke. Thomas Prufer |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
Its clearly daft as obviously, a fire in the electricity cupboard may well
cut the supply. To be honest, overkill comes to mind and a lack of evidence to back it up. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "alan_m" wrote in message ... On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
That is the whole problem with legislation today though. for example its
been illegal for the NHS to refuse reasonable alternative format communication with blind patients, but they still send printed paper to a good70 percent of those who have asked. No policing means no enforcement means no incentive to spend the money to comply. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "alan_m" wrote in message ... On 18/03/2018 23:20, ss wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. If battery operated how is the Scottish Parliament going to ensure that the majority of these alarms will not be useless after a few years when those who cannot be bothered at present to fit them will not be bothered to replace the batteries? How is the Scottish Parliament going to police this policy? -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/2018 08:52, Thomas Prufer wrote:
They are supposed to be installed with 10-year lithium batteries, ideally not user-exchangeable so the alarms will be renewed after 10 years. My experience with 10-year lithium batteries in smoke alarms is that they don't last 10 years - more like 5. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sunday, 18 March 2018 21:12:54 UTC, ss wrote:
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Some Scottish electrians are quite excited by the proposal: https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...otland.139314/ Owain |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:17:06 +0000, alan_m wrote:
My experience with 10-year lithium batteries in smoke alarms is that they don't last 10 years - more like 5. .... and Duracell "Procell" 9 Volt batteries last about 4 years, at a fraction of the cost... Thomas Prufer |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 10:50:39 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:
Its clearly daft as obviously, a fire in the electricity cupboard may well cut the supply. The mains interlinked ones usually have a backup battery. Our Firex ones do. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me ﾂ｣1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
Around here the fire service will fit free smoke alarms for vulnerable people. Even special ones for the deaf and ones where the battery is in a box on the wall so you can change it without steps. The elderly couple that live next door to me make use of that service. A fire engine turned up the other week to replace their smoke alarms. Seemed a bit OTT. I had told the couple that I would do it for them but I guess they didnt want to bother me. Alan |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
AlanC wrote:
A fire engine turned up the other week to replace their smoke alarms. Seemed a bit OTT. The crews do that sort of job while waiting between fire calls, saves employing staff just to do it, they won't go outside the "patch" they would be covering from the station anyway, so they can still be mobilised to a fire call from the house. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/2018 11:45, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:17:06 +0000, alan_m wrote: My experience with 10-year lithium batteries in smoke alarms is that they don't last 10 years - more like 5. ... and Duracell "Procell" 9 Volt batteries last about 4 years, at a fraction of the cost... Thomas Prufer It may depend on the smoke detector type. I have some optical smoke detectors and use fresh Duracell Industrial PP3 (they re-branded Procell to Industrial a few years back). I put date stickers on my alarms on a battery change and all the alarms I have all start chirping after 14 months (I replaced all my alarms, 5 off, at the same time). My alarms are the same type as BigClive dismantled in this Youtube video (Note whats IN the box is not what is described ON the box) -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/2018 11:30, wrote:
On Sunday, 18 March 2018 21:12:54 UTC, ss wrote: Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Some Scottish electrians are quite excited by the proposal: https://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...otland.139314/ Perhaps they have been lobbying. Electrical work in a kitchen - lots of money! Judging by the cold calls that used to be left on my answerphone suggesting that any gas boiler installed before a certain date was illegal and to avoid possible prosecution I should immediately call for a quote I guess this will start an avalanche of similar calls in Scotland threatening possible legal action for not having "professionally" installed smoke alarms. If smoke alarms become a legal requirement are the house/contents insurance companies going to insist on proof the systems are properly installed AMD maintained? This may rule out DIY and ad-hoc installation by your fire brigade. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
alan_m wrote:
Electrical work in a kitchen - lots of money! Kitchen is no longer a 'special' location (assuming it has no bath, sauna or swimming pool in it!) |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 23:46, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:20:40 +0000, ss wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. The age limit is reasonable, as that is usually the working life of the detector. Well it is *certainly* not the effective lifetime of the source: Am 241 has a half life of 432 years. So after 10 years the strength is only down by about 2%. As an aside, a Stanford web site says the annual dose from smoke detectors is between 0.1 and 0.5 bananas per year. http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2011/ph241/eason1/ |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:20:40 +0000, ss wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. You may find writing to your MSP a more fruitful exercise. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:39:27 +0000, alan_m
wrote: On 18/03/2018 23:20, ss wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. If battery operated how is the Scottish Parliament going to ensure that the majority of these alarms will not be useless after a few years when those who cannot be bothered at present to fit them will not be bothered to replace the batteries? How is the Scottish Parliament going to police this policy? According to no lesser source than the Metro, enforcement will take place at point of sale. Unless the fire system is compliant, no Home Report will be issued, thereby preventing sale of the property. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 21:12:51 +0000, ss wrote:
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Quote............ "Now everyone will benefit from the same level of protection, whether you own your home, or rent from a social or private landlord." In practical terms, the law will require private homes to; have at least one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used have at least one smoke alarm in spaces such as hallways and landings have at least one heat alarm in every kitchen have a carbon monoxide detector In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... I live in a flat with a smoke detector in the hall. On the basis of counting transits, my hall must be the room most frequently used. Is there a definition of 'use' as opposed to 'occupancy'? I assume most working people spend more time in bed than in their living room? There is a CO already (three in fact, one for each gas appliance) I just need a heat alarm for the kitchen then? |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:51:06 +0000, newshound wrote:
On 18/03/2018 23:46, Bob Eager wrote: On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:20:40 +0000, ss wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. The age limit is reasonable, as that is usually the working life of the detector. Well it is *certainly* not the effective lifetime of the source: Am 241 has a half life of 432 years. So after 10 years the strength is only down by about 2%. It's more about dust, dirt, corrosion, etc. -- My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub wish to copy them they can pay me ﾂ｣1 a message. Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:55:31 +0000, alan_m wrote:
I have some optical smoke detectors and use fresh Duracell Industrial PP3 (they re-branded Procell to Industrial a few years back). I put date stickers on my alarms on a battery change and all the alarms I have all start chirping after 14 months (I replaced all my alarms, 5 off, at the same time). Yes -- mine last longer, in my detectors:-) Just checked: one "Procell", expiry date MAR 2018, in a ionization detector. Got two optical detectors, with lifetimes handwavingly well greater than 14 months, but not able to check now. None of these were expensive! Thomas Prufer |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/18 21:24, alan_m wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? No - you can get 10 year Li battery radio interlinked alarms. Bloody expensive in comparison, but possibly cheaper than laying in new cabling (depending on accessibility of the wiring route). EI-Aico make them IIRC. |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/18 22:27, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? you can get interlinked battery powered alarms. The batteries don't last as long or they have two batteries. They can be bought to last 10 years |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/18 21:12, ss wrote:
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Quote............ "Now everyone will benefit from the same level of protection, whether you own your home, or rent from a social or private landlord." In practical terms, the law will require private homes to; have at least one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used have at least one smoke alarm in spaces such as hallways and landings have at least one heat alarm in every kitchen have a carbon monoxide detector In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... For owner occupied dwellings, how on earth do they think they are going to enforce that? |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/18 14:03, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 23:39:27 +0000, alan_m wrote: On 18/03/2018 23:20, ss wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I dont know, I am only asking as I am writing to my MP asking how he expects those that can ill afford to pay for the installation. If battery operated how is the Scottish Parliament going to ensure that the majority of these alarms will not be useless after a few years when those who cannot be bothered at present to fit them will not be bothered to replace the batteries? How is the Scottish Parliament going to police this policy? According to no lesser source than the Metro, enforcement will take place at point of sale. Unless the fire system is compliant, no Home Report will be issued, thereby preventing sale of the property. That sounds like proper "Big Government". I do sometimes wonder why the Scot vote these people in... |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/18 23:46, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 21:24:17 +0000, alan_m wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? I couldn't find any non mains powered interlinked ones when I last looked. I had seen some before, eventually put in the (ELV) wiring, then couldn't find them again. I ended up rewiring for mains ones, using 6243Y. Here you go Bob: https://www.safelincs.co.uk/ei-radio...-ei600-series/ |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/18 13:33, Andy Burns wrote:
alan_m wrote: Electrical work in a kitchen - lots of money! Kitchen is no longer a 'special' location (assuming it has no bath, sauna or swimming pool in it!) Well, it isn't in England. Are you sure about Jockland? Even in the Land of the Leeks, there is disparity on Part P... |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 3/19/2018 12:32 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 18/03/18 21:24, alan_m wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? No - you can get 10 year Li battery radio interlinked alarms. Bloody expensive in comparison, but possibly cheaper than laying in new cabling (depending on accessibility of the wiring route). EI-Aico make them IIRC. Hmm. Is it possible that the new Scottish regs will require the units be mains powered? |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/2018 16:37, Tim Watts wrote:
https://www.safelincs.co.uk/ei-radio...-ei600-series/ Discontinued Unit, so....... https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-ang...d-heat-alarms/ I'm not sure why the majority of domestic properties would require interlinking. If any of my alarms sound they can be easy heard in any room in the house. -- mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 19/03/18 17:16, alan_m wrote:
On 19/03/2018 16:37, Tim Watts wrote: https://www.safelincs.co.uk/ei-radio...-ei600-series/ Discontinued Unit, so....... OK - ta... https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-ang...d-heat-alarms/ I'm not sure why the majority of domestic properties would require interlinking. If any of my alarms sound they can be easy heard in any room in the house. A fireman friend told me of a little girl who died because her bedroom door was well-fitted, a fire started in her room but the smoke did not trip the detector outside in the hall. This is why I put units in every habitable room and interlinked them. No one is sleeping through that! |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
Fire service offer a free smoke alarm service to vulnerable people, but they glue them to the ceilings and I'd expect that is not very secure either. Not a bit of it! The Fire Brigade fitted two of them here and glued them to the ceiling paper with No More Nails (or something similar) They were Fire Angel alarms, a little larger than most, and have a back-plate to which the alarm can be fitted or removed with a twist. In due course, the downstairs one went faulty, and when I tried to remove it from the plate it wouldn't budge. The whole thing was glued together. I used a serrated knife to saw through the glue, but it cut a hole in the ceiling paper. I bought a similar Fire Angel to replace it so the hole is hidden. -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/2018 22:27, dennis@home wrote:
On 18/03/2018 21:24, alan_m wrote: On 18/03/2018 21:12, ss wrote: In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... As they have to be interlinked do they also have to be mains powered? you can get interlinked battery powered alarms. The batteries don't last as long or they have two batteries. I'll bet they ware wanting Grade D - mains powered with a battery backup. -- Adam |
Smoke alarms, approx fitting costs
On 18/03/18 21:12, ss wrote:
Below is going to be made law in Scotland, I already have alarms so they can fekc off! However thinking of some old dear on a state pension or someone on benefits what would be an approx cost to get an electrician to fit as below. Quote............ "Now everyone will benefit from the same level of protection, whether you own your home, or rent from a social or private landlord." In practical terms, the law will require private homes to; have at least one smoke alarm installed in the room most frequently used have at least one smoke alarm in spaces such as hallways and landings have at least one heat alarm in every kitchen have a carbon monoxide detector In addition, there will be a 10-year age limit for alarms and all alarms will have to be ceiling-mounted, and should be interlinked."......... For owner occupied dwellings, how on earth do they think they are going to enforce that? My reading of this is unless it was built in or after 1993 abd has not undergone "alteration, extension or conversion" it will be exempt http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/09/8183/4 -- Graham. %Profound_observation% |
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