Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right *******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?

GB wrote:

Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right *******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...ira-flight-low
-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?

A very recent thread in this group about this problem suggested simply
removing the bottom 115mm of the board (PB in that thread) and leaving
a moderately deep gap in front of the basic wall structure. I can't
see any great problem with this approach, especially if the underlying
wall is not too vulnerable to water damage. But i've never tried it.


--

Roger Hayter

On 15/02/2018 11:24, Roger Hayter wrote:
GB wrote:

Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right *******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...ira-flight-low
-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?

A very recent thread in this group about this problem suggested simply
removing the bottom 115mm of the board (PB in that thread) and leaving
a moderately deep gap in front of the basic wall structure. I can't
see any great problem with this approach, especially if the underlying
wall is not too vulnerable to water damage. But i've never tried it.

There's a 1.5" gap behind the cement board, apart from where the battens
are. So, that's an issue.

The correct way to do this, apparently, is to remove the 5mm, then flood
the gap between the shower tray and the remaining bit of the cement
board with silicone. That sticks it all together and makes it rigid, as
well as water-tight.

Is the idea that the upstands sit against the wall (5mm inset) and then the tiles sit over the upstand? If the 5mm is to enable the silicone to sit between the upstand and the wall to the required thickness, could you just silicone it to the wall and let the tiles take up the extra 5 mm?

On 15/02/2018 13:19, wrote:
Is the idea that the upstands sit against the wall (5mm inset) and then the tiles sit over the upstand? If the 5mm is to enable the silicone to sit between the upstand and the wall to the required thickness, could you just silicone it to the wall and let the tiles take up the extra 5 mm?



The tiles are mean to overlap the upstand, inside the shower tray. To
get that effect just by build up the tile adhesive layer would mean it
would have to be an extra 5mm thick.

The 5mm to me seems more about the thickness of the silicone holding upstands on than the measurement itself. I would put a load of silicone on the upstands/ base and squeeze it as tight as possible onto the wall. Given the height of the upstands aren't that much (assuming the tiles are much bigger) you may be able to get away with a thinner bit of tile adhesive just on the upstand and keep the rest normal.

A bit (maybe a lot) of a bodge might be to silicone the bottom of the tile to the upstand to save the extra 5mm of adhesive all the way up the wall.

On 15/02/2018 09:35, GB wrote:
Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right
******* of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to
install cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the
face of the board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower
tray and upstand. I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said:
"ask your builder, as he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster.
Well, I have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

It would be ok on a solid wall - not so easy to do in the thickness of
some aquapanel... You could do it will a wall chaser - position both
disks side by side to get a wider kerf, set the require depth of cut,
and then make several passes to chop away the required thickness.

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to
do this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of
the Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly
doubling the cost and the work of preparing the room.

Alternatively you add packers behind the aquapanel to bring it to the
right position (i.e. inner face just inside of the upstand) and only
bring it down to the tray to finish on top of the upstand.

(you could then add some additional offcuts of aquapanel to bridge the
interface on the outside and silicone that on to add an extra layer that
bonds the main aquapanel to the outside of the tray.



http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...user-guide.pdf

The instructions show the upstand thickness at 10mm... If so that is not
far off the thickness of the aquapanel.


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this
why?

Probably one of the reasons!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , GB
writes
On 15/02/2018 11:24, Roger Hayter wrote:
GB wrote:

Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right
*******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...ira-flight-low
-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?
A very recent thread in this group about this problem suggested
simply
removing the bottom 115mm of the board (PB in that thread) and leaving
a moderately deep gap in front of the basic wall structure. I can't
see any great problem with this approach, especially if the underlying
wall is not too vulnerable to water damage. But i've never tried it.

There's a 1.5" gap behind the cement board, apart from where the
battens are. So, that's an issue.

The correct way to do this, apparently, is to remove the 5mm, then
flood the gap between the shower tray and the remaining bit of the
cement board with silicone. That sticks it all together and makes it
rigid, as well as water-tight.

I hit this with an Ideal Standard shower base. The upstand was moulded a
few mm in from the tray edge so I had to notch the wall. Fortunately
hard wall plaster so easy to do.

I doubt the tray is 115mm deep. AFAIR my notch was about 35mm wide. Good
luck!

You could glue thin battens to the back of your showerwall and then glue
the assembly to your cement board.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , GB
writes
On 15/02/2018 11:24, Roger Hayter wrote:
GB wrote:

Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right
*******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...ira-flight-low
-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?
A very recent thread in this group about this problem suggested
simply
removing the bottom 115mm of the board (PB in that thread) and leaving
a moderately deep gap in front of the basic wall structure. I can't
see any great problem with this approach, especially if the underlying
wall is not too vulnerable to water damage. But i've never tried it.

There's a 1.5" gap behind the cement board, apart from where the
battens are. So, that's an issue.

The correct way to do this, apparently, is to remove the 5mm, then
flood the gap between the shower tray and the remaining bit of the
cement board with silicone. That sticks it all together and makes it
rigid, as well as water-tight.

I hit this with an Ideal Standard shower base. The upstand was moulded
a few mm in from the tray edge so I had to notch the wall. Fortunately
hard wall plaster so easy to do.

I doubt the tray is 115mm deep. AFAIR my notch was about 35mm wide.
Good luck!

You could glue thin battens to the back of your showerwall and then
glue the assembly to your cement board.

Ah! Tiling. Sorry.


--
Tim Lamb

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/02/2018 09:35, GB wrote:
Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right
******* of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to
install cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the
face of the board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower
tray and upstand. I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said:
"ask your builder, as he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster.
Well, I have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

It would be ok on a solid wall - not so easy to do in the thickness of
some aquapanel... You could do it will a wall chaser - position both
disks side by side to get a wider kerf, set the require depth of cut,
and then make several passes to chop away the required thickness.

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to
do this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of
the Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly
doubling the cost and the work of preparing the room.

Alternatively you add packers behind the aquapanel to bring it to the
right position (i.e. inner face just inside of the upstand) and only
bring it down to the tray to finish on top of the upstand.

(you could then add some additional offcuts of aquapanel to bridge the
interface on the outside and silicone that on to add an extra layer
that bonds the main aquapanel to the outside of the tray.




http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...m-mira-flight-
low-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf

The instructions show the upstand thickness at 10mm... If so that is
not far off the thickness of the aquapanel.

Umm. I think that 10mm is the inside upstand to wall distance.


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this
why?

Probably one of the reasons!

The suppliers are quick to offer a tape substitute.



--
Tim Lamb

On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 9:35:29 AM UTC, GB wrote:
Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right *******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?

I wouldn't fancy doing anything much to cement board. It's full of reinforcement mesh, and not designed for what they're proposing. OTOH it could work with moisture resistant chipboard, which is actually damned near waterproof IME.

On Thursday, 15 February 2018 09:35:29 UTC, GB wrote:
Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right *******
of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to install
cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the face of the
board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower tray and upstand.
I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said: "ask your builder, as
he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster. Well, I
have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to do
this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of the
Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly doubling the
cost and the work of preparing the room.


http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...user-guide.pdf


My impression is that most shower trays don't have upstands. Is this why?

That is not what is says at all.
For solid walls it says to chip away the plaster. Easy with a hammer and bolster.
OR
For stud wall it says install cement board.
This is all about stopping water running down the wall and getting under the tray.

On 15/02/2018 15:31, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 15/02/2018 09:35, GB wrote:
Installing shower tray with upstands - this seems to be a right
******* of a job. According to the destructions, you are supposed to
install cement board down to the floor, then chip away 5mm from the
face of the board to a height of 115mm, so as to inset the shower
tray and upstand. I spoke to Mira's technical helpline, who said:
"ask your builder, as he'll have the right tools for the job".

The destructions show this being done with a hammer and bolster.
Well, I have those, and it's not going to work, is it?

It would be ok on a solid wall - not so easy to do in the thickness of
some aquapanel... You could do it will a wall chaser - position both
disks side by side to get a wider kerf, set the require depth of cut,
and then make several passes to chop away the required thickness.

I'm using 12mm Aquapanel cement board, btw. The only way I can see to
do this is to add a second 5 or 6mm layer of cement board on top of
the Aquapanel, stopping 115mm short of the floor. Thus neatly
doubling the cost and the work of preparing the room.

Alternatively you add packers behind the aquapanel to bring it to the
right position (i.e. inner face just inside of the upstand) and only
bring it down to the tray to finish on top of the upstand.

(you could then add some additional offcuts of aquapanel to bridge the
interface on the outside and silicone that on to add an extra layer
that bonds the main aquapanel to the outside of the tray.




http://resources.kohler.com/plumbing...m-mira-flight-
low-shower-trays-range-installation-and-user-guide.pdf

The instructions show the upstand thickness at 10mm... If so that is
not far off the thickness of the aquapanel.

Umm. I think that 10mm is the inside upstand to wall distance.

Presumably you want the tiles to have their rear surface just inside the
upstand - then you can seal them to the tray, and any water that gets
past that seal encounters the upstand.

(what happens to it then I am less sure about!)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/