Keyless Entry - security
 

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 14:02, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

It is certainly possible. Such kit does exist.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

One thing to check is will the car allow you once the engine is started
to drive away without any keys with you? This can be embarrassing!

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

I expect it would work but it wouldn't be very convenient.

I suspect the magic box needs to be moderately near to the key fob to do
the transaction so keeping your keys near the middle of the house should
be almost good enough. Inside a metal tobacco tin if you are paranoid.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Keyless Entry - security
 

In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

A neighbour had a near new Disco stolen. The type with keyless entry.

On their new replacement (old car never recovered) they have one of those
massive crook-lock type thingies on the steering wheel - and keep the keys
in some special safe the dealer sold them.

Sounds a great time saver, this keyless system...

--
*Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keyless Entry - security
 

DerbyBorn formulated on Tuesday :
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

Thieves can read the keys remotely, yes - so keeping them in some sort
of metal cage is a worthwhile precaution. It needn't be anything
special, even a glass ornament with a cooking foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in
your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking
foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with the
plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On Tuesday, 16 January 2018 14:02:54 UTC, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

some info here.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...e-faraday-cage

Keyless Entry - security
 

No its a good idea really. Its a faraday shield.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 14:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article 6,
DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?

A neighbour had a near new Disco stolen. The type with keyless entry.

On their new replacement (old car never recovered) they have one of those
massive crook-lock type thingies on the steering wheel - and keep the keys
in some special safe the dealer sold them.

Sounds a great time saver, this keyless system...


My neighbour had his car taken even though the key was in a tin.
It appears that his ford model has a blind spot on the alarm
which lets you break the glass and poke a hole through it near the dash
and reprogram the management computer without setting the alarm off.
Why they allow re-programming while the alarm is set is anyone's guess.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 14:15, Martin Brown wrote:

I suspect the magic box needs to be moderately near to the key fob to do
the transaction so keeping your keys near the middle of the house should
be almost good enough. Inside a metal tobacco tin if you are paranoid.


CPC sell a range of RF shielded boxes.

Bill

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything
special, even a glass ornament with a cooking foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in
your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking
foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with the
plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

Bill

Keyless Entry - security
 

Bill Wright wrote :
What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

Microwaves!

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 14:02, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use?

Probably. If the container is portable you could put the key in it then
take the container to your car and see if it unlocks. You could repeat
with different containers to see which works best.

Perhaps also consider a steering wheel lock:
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/tips-and-a...to-buy-in-2017

Keyless Entry - security
 

Sounds a great time saver, this keyless system...


It is cheaper than providing mechanical locks!

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 17:48, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Bill Wright wrote :
What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

Microwaves!

Ooh arr

Bill

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 16:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 14:02:50 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the
code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it
all a bit like tin foil hats?

Better off doing some investigating, and finding a wire that stops the
engine when cut. Then fit a microswitch somewhere non-intuitive. And even
then, a really determined gang would bring a low loader, and just lift
the vehicle.

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points. The
starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be able to buy a
switch to do the job which you installed in a concealed location - but
you had to remember to set it. After my Mk1 Escort was nicked (and
returned with a let down tyre), I made a immobilisation circuit (using a
2-way relay) which set itself when the ignition was turned off, and to
reset it required the ignition to be turned on and a concealed button
pressed, so I couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a
short time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

--
Max Demian

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 17:21, Huge wrote:
On 2018-01-16, dennis@home wrote:

[19 lines snipped]

My neighbour had his car taken even though the key was in a tin.
It appears that his ford model has a blind spot on the alarm
which lets you break the glass and poke a hole through it near the dash
and reprogram the management computer without setting the alarm off.

Wanna buy a bridge?


Go and talk about something you know about disckhead.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/2018 17:21, Huge wrote:
On 2018-01-16, dennis@home wrote:

[19 lines snipped]

My neighbour had his car taken even though the key was in a tin.
It appears that his ford model has a blind spot on the alarm
which lets you break the glass and poke a hole through it near the dash
and reprogram the management computer without setting the alarm off.

Wanna buy a bridge?


For anyone as stupid as huge dickhead have a look at

https://www.advanced-incar.co.uk/201...theft-protect/

I still have the cctv of the thieves too.
Not much use in identifying them as it was too dark for the IR
illumination as its not intended to work on the other side of the street.

It was only a few months ago.

Keyless Entry - security
 

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in
your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking
foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with the
plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

How does one of these card readers which can work some way from the cards
- ie when in your wallet - differentiate between the different cards?

And surely there has to be a limit on the distance any such device can
work at?

--
*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keyless Entry - security
 

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 16/01/2018 16:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 14:02:50 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the
code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it
all a bit like tin foil hats?

Better off doing some investigating, and finding a wire that stops the
engine when cut. Then fit a microswitch somewhere non-intuitive. And even
then, a really determined gang would bring a low loader, and just lift
the vehicle.

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points. The
starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be able to buy a
switch to do the job which you installed in a concealed location - but
you had to remember to set it. After my Mk1 Escort was nicked (and
returned with a let down tyre), I made a immobilisation circuit (using a
2-way relay) which set itself when the ignition was turned off, and to
reset it required the ignition to be turned on and a concealed button
pressed, so I couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a
short time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

A switch across the points might not be the best idea - given the rather
high voltage spike when they open, when working normally. Might cause
misfires.

If you had an electric pump, better to isolate that. The engine would
start, then stop when the carb emptied. And often more difficult to hot
wire than an ignition cut out, especially if the pump is in the locked
boot.

--
*When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keyless Entry - security
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" Wrote in message:
In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 16/01/2018 16:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 14:02:50 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the
code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it
all a bit like tin foil hats?

Better off doing some investigating, and finding a wire that stops the
engine when cut. Then fit a microswitch somewhere non-intuitive. And even
then, a really determined gang would bring a low loader, and just lift
the vehicle.

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points. The
starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be able to buy a
switch to do the job which you installed in a concealed location - but
you had to remember to set it. After my Mk1 Escort was nicked (and
returned with a let down tyre), I made a immobilisation circuit (using a
2-way relay) which set itself when the ignition was turned off, and to
reset it required the ignition to be turned on and a concealed button
pressed, so I couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a
short time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

A switch across the points might not be the best idea - given the rather
high voltage spike when they open, when working normally. Might cause
misfires.

If you had an electric pump, better to isolate that. The engine would
start, then stop when the carb emptied. And often more difficult to hot
wire than an ignition cut out, especially if the pump is in the locked
boot.


Points? Carb? With kessy? Shome mishtake shurely?...
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 17/01/2018 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in
your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking
foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with the
plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

I doubt if the aluminised polymer film for keeping coffee fresh is a
good enough conductor to prevent your card being read. It lets light
through. Try presenting your card for payment wrapped in the stuff and
see what happens. The thinnest real aluminium foil ought to do it.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

How does one of these card readers which can work some way from the cards
- ie when in your wallet - differentiate between the different cards?

It sends out the request on higher power to activate the card and
receives with a much more sensitive receiver than the normal shop
device. Probably still only has a working range of at most a few feet
parallel to its larger transmit coil as opposed to a couple of inches.

And surely there has to be a limit on the distance any such device can
work at?

Yes. But it is probably a lot further than you think given a big enough
antenna to detect the signal.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Keyless Entry - security
 

Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:39:36 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 16/01/2018 16:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 14:02:50 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access
the code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is
it all a bit like tin foil hats?

Better off doing some investigating, and finding a wire that stops
the engine when cut. Then fit a microswitch somewhere non-intuitive.
And even then, a really determined gang would bring a low loader, and
just lift the vehicle.

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points. The
starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be able to buy a
switch to do the job which you installed in a concealed location - but
you had to remember to set it. After my Mk1 Escort was nicked (and
returned with a let down tyre), I made a immobilisation circuit (using
a 2-way relay) which set itself when the ignition was turned off, and
to reset it required the ignition to be turned on and a concealed
button pressed, so I couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it
for a short time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

A switch across the points might not be the best idea - given the rather
high voltage spike when they open, when working normally. Might cause
misfires.

One idea I've seen was a switch which disconnected the brake lights. The
idea being (I suppose) to either get a thief stopped by plod, or (more
likely) rear-shunted.

I found it when a customer bought a s/h car (it was legit), and the brake
lights didn't work. There was a tiny switch right at the bottom of the
steering cowling.

Oft used by insurance scammers claiming rear enders & the
lucrative whiplash innit mate?

What sort of car? Toyota? Vauxhall? Ford?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

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Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:25:19 +0000, jim wrote:

Jethro_uk Wrote in message:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:39:36 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Max Demian wrote:
On 16/01/2018 16:27, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 14:02:50 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access
the code from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or
is it all a bit like tin foil hats?

Better off doing some investigating, and finding a wire that stops
the engine when cut. Then fit a microswitch somewhere
non-intuitive. And even then, a really determined gang would bring
a low loader, and just lift the vehicle.

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points.
The starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be able to
buy a switch to do the job which you installed in a concealed
location - but you had to remember to set it. After my Mk1 Escort was
nicked (and returned with a let down tyre), I made a immobilisation
circuit (using a 2-way relay) which set itself when the ignition was
turned off, and to reset it required the ignition to be turned on and
a concealed button pressed, so I couldn't forget to set it even if I
was leaving it for a short time. There were several unsuccessful
attempts to nick it subsequently.

A switch across the points might not be the best idea - given the
rather high voltage spike when they open, when working normally. Might
cause misfires.

One idea I've seen was a switch which disconnected the brake lights.
The idea being (I suppose) to either get a thief stopped by plod, or
(more likely) rear-shunted.

I found it when a customer bought a s/h car (it was legit), and the
brake lights didn't work. There was a tiny switch right at the bottom
of the steering cowling.

Oft used by insurance scammers claiming rear enders & the
lucrative whiplash innit mate?

Which is why a dashcam is essential these days. Given the next generation
of cars will have them inbuilt, there's even more incentive for drivers
of older cars to get one.



What sort of car? Toyota? Vauxhall? Ford?

It was actually a FIAT X1/9 (whose rear was stronger than you'd think).


Mmm. Stronger when new?:-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Keyless Entry - security
 

Dave Plowman wrote:

How does one of these card readers which can work some way from the cards
- ie when in your wallet - differentiate between the different cards?

The RFID reader repeatedly queries for devices with a longer and longer
prefix of their ID, one bit at a time, the cards answer "yes" only if
they have a matching prefix.

This can detect thousands of tags embedded in items of clothing at once
as they enter a warehouse on a lorry, or can tell if more than one bank
card is present at a card reader.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:28:25 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

It sends out the request on higher power to activate the card and
receives with a much more sensitive receiver than the normal shop
device. Probably still only has a working range of at most a few feet
parallel to its larger transmit coil as opposed to a couple of inches.

And then has to unscramble the responses from the multiple NFC or HF
RFID devices it wakes up. Not all of which will be bank cards.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/18 14:02, DerbyBorn wrote:
I have read of the odd car theft where a device is used to access the code
from a keyfob in the house to unlock and steal a car.

I am about to get a car with such a feature.

Is keeping the fob in a metal container in the house any use? Or is it all
a bit like tin foil hats?


Faraday cage - yes it would work.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read in
your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with cooking
foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet lined with
the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

Bill

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 17/01/2018 09:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read
in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with
cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet
lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Real aluminium foil with edges folded over might be but the aluminised
plastic that they wrap coffee in isn't likely to do much good.

Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Keyless Entry - security
 

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2018 09:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read
in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with
cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet
lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Real aluminium foil with edges folded over might be but the aluminised
plastic that they wrap coffee in isn't likely to do much good.

Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

then make the cage out of mu-metal

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Keyless Entry - security
 

Huge wrote:

Sadly, so I have been told, a lot of the cheaper readers do not
implement CSMA/CD

I suppose for a payment terminal, you don't want to talk to more than
one card anyway, though some do seem to detect it, I've had them say
"only present a single card" OWTTE, maybe they just detect that by
garbled communication?

if that's what the "prefix creep" can be described as.

I think it's proper name is anti-collision

Keyless Entry - security
 

Max Demian wrote:

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points.
The starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be
able to buy a switch to do the job which you installed in a
concealed location - but you had to remember to set it. After my
Mk1 Escort was nicked (and returned with a let down tyre), I made
a immobilisation circuit (using a 2-way relay) which set itself
when the ignition was turned off, and to reset it required the
ignition to be turned on and a concealed button pressed, so I
couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a short
time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

Ah yes,the Mk 1 Escort was in such high demand...

Keyless Entry - security
 

On Wednesday, 17 January 2018 11:40:51 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2018 09:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read
in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with
cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet
lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Real aluminium foil with edges folded over might be but the aluminised
plastic that they wrap coffee in isn't likely to do much good.

Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

then make the cage out of mu-metal

We had a faraday cage made of copper. Large enough to lock 4 studetns in it.
Those were the days. :-D



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 17/01/18 10:06, Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2018 09:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read
in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with
cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet
lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Real aluminium foil with edges folded over might be but the aluminised
plastic that they wrap coffee in isn't likely to do much good.

That's what the OP said...


Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)


That needs some investigation - I'm interested in this...

Keyless Entry - security
 

In article ,
mechanic wrote:
Max Demian wrote:

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points.
The starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be
able to buy a switch to do the job which you installed in a
concealed location - but you had to remember to set it. After my
Mk1 Escort was nicked (and returned with a let down tyre), I made
a immobilisation circuit (using a 2-way relay) which set itself
when the ignition was turned off, and to reset it required the
ignition to be turned on and a concealed button pressed, so I
couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a short
time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

Ah yes,the Mk 1 Escort was in such high demand...

They certainly are now. ;-)

--
*Beware - animal lover - brakes for pussy*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keyless Entry - security
 

On 17/01/2018 10:20, charles wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 17/01/2018 09:58, Tim Watts wrote:
On 16/01/18 17:37, Bill Wright wrote:
On 16/01/2018 15:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It needn't be anything special, even a glass ornament with a cooking
foil liner is enough.

Likewise, you can prevent contactless debit/credit cards being read
in your wallet, by lining the outside pocket of the wallet with
cooking foil or similar metalised cooking foil. I have my wallet
lined with the plastic foil which ground coffee is sold in.

What experimental evidence have you for these assertions?

It's a basic Faraday cage - why would you need to prove it?

Real aluminium foil with edges folded over might be but the aluminised
plastic that they wrap coffee in isn't likely to do much good.

Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

then make the cage out of mu-metal

Magnetic shielding is notoriously difficult.
Stopping the signal transmission back is sufficient.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Keyless Entry - security
 

Dave Plowman (News) expressed precisely :
How does one of these card readers which can work some way from the cards
- ie when in your wallet - differentiate between the different cards?

And surely there has to be a limit on the distance any such device can
work at?

They cannot, if you have multiple cards close together, but if you only
have one on occasion - then it really needs to be screened to prevent
it being skimmed.

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On 17/01/2018 12:06, Huge wrote:
On 2018-01-17, mechanic wrote:
Max Demian wrote:

In the old days you could immobilise a car by shorting the points.
The starter worked but the car wouldn't start. You used to be
able to buy a switch to do the job which you installed in a
concealed location - but you had to remember to set it. After my
Mk1 Escort was nicked (and returned with a let down tyre), I made
a immobilisation circuit (using a 2-way relay) which set itself
when the ignition was turned off, and to reset it required the
ignition to be turned on and a concealed button pressed, so I
couldn't forget to set it even if I was leaving it for a short
time. There were several unsuccessful attempts to nick it
subsequently.

Ah yes,the Mk 1 Escort was in such high demand...

I find it interesting that those who post in an ostentatiously
anonymous manner ("Hey, look at me! You don't know who I am!")
generally post utter wank. Cars are stolen for many reasons, not
necessarily just because they're desirable. For "joy-riding",
a ride home, for scrap.

Since my Escort was returned near to where it was nicked, I assume it
was just someone who wanted to go somewhere.

More recently someone went to a considerable amount of effort to nick my
13-14 year old Fiat Punto (with faded red paintwork and some damage from
a previous accident). They levered the driver's door open at the top and
bent the steering column trying to break the steering lock. In the end
all they took was the owner's manual and a road atlas from the glove
box. The insurers declared the car a write off.

--
Max Demian

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Martin Brown brought next idea :
I doubt if the aluminised polymer film for keeping coffee fresh is a good
enough conductor to prevent your card being read. It lets light through. Try
presenting your card for payment wrapped in the stuff and see what happens.
The thinnest real aluminium foil ought to do it.

I have tried it in shops (plus other tests) and yes it does prevent it
working. The coffee foil I used does not allow light through, I suspect
that is its main purpose, to prevent light spoiling the coffee grounds.

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Martin Brown brought next idea :
Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

The slot type reader uses a magnetic reader, like a cassette tape. The
contact less card uses RF via an embedded chip.

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Martin Brown explained :
Effective Faraday cages are harder to construct than you might think.
(and I suspect that the power transfer uses magnetic coupling anyway)

True, but they are also quite heavy. All you are trying to do is foil a
low power attempt to skim a card in your pocket - which is difficult
even if you cooperate with the process.

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on 17/01/2018, Jethro_uk supposed :
I was amused many years ago, when I worked in logistics, to visit a
hauliers, and see the drivers all remove the rear light covers to prevent
theft.

I have seen some driving without the light covers - is that (normally)
to prevent theft of the covers, or the vehicle.