A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

Nick Odell wrote:
A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

Usually just the opposite. Small groups of properties a long way from
substations

on a long line usually have small transformers and suffer from
relatively high impedance supplies.

On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 19:36:59 +0000, Nick Odell
coalesced the vapors of human
experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension...

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick


It's good that you have posted that, because I have a similar anecdote
that I have been meaning to post.

I live in a semi built in 1919 in a suburban area, fed by a PILC cable
with TN-S earthling (in case any of that's relevant) from a substation
across the road, actually about 100m away. The mains has always been
extremely stable, with a meter reading of 245V RMS that hardly ever
varies, and I have always put this down to the proximity of the
substation.

The substation itself is interesting, I have never seen one like it.
It consists of two roadside cabinets, one has doors, I have never seen
them open, but I imagine it contains fuses, the other must be the
transformer, you can see a concrete block inside with holes.

Anyway, before Christmas we started to have trouble, three or four
events, involving different areas in the vicinity, not the "every
third house" that I imagined a phase down would effect.

On one occasion there was a brown-out of about 20 min when the supply
went down to 50v. All the LED lights in the house continued to work at
reduced brightness, and most switchmode wall-wart devices were
unaffected but the TVs and fridge/freezer went off of course, and I
had the presence of mind to unplug the latter. After 20 min the power
went off for a while.

After each event, the power was restored without any local
intervention.

A few days later Electricity Northwest excavated around the
transformer, and a week or so later this letter was sent to the
effected households.

I noticed that the mains voltage is lower now, about 239

https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/S2Q698

It seems like the transformer cabinet that I can see is the tip of an
iceberg.

I have some pictures of the excavated substation if anyone is
interested, the transformer has lost its signage many years ago, but I
think it said Farranti 11kV

I was surprised that we could be "back-fed" like that, as it implies
(to me) that the low-voltage side is extended to somewhere else in the
network.
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Monday, 8 January 2018 02:34:09 UTC, Nick Odell wrote:

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

Manhattan? Kibera?
Cable capacitance won't help you with voltage stability


NT

On Monday, 8 January 2018 02:34:09 UTC, Nick Odell wrote:
A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?


There is a loose connection/faulty switch somewhere.

It needs rooting out, it could start a fire.
Sounds like it's associated with the consumer unit/main switches.
Could even be before the meter.
Or even on the meter.

1st, no no odd effects like that. Indeed its more likely if it were the
other way around, ie at the end of a run with other large loads switching on
it.
Best guess is first to ask others in the area if their lights do this too.
Make sure its a fluctuating voltage issue by looking at a socket as both
those and the lights should vary together if its an external issue. Look at
the meter and how the line comes in and poke it around a bit with something
insulated in case something is loose there. After that and if no other
properties are affected then you are faced with contacting the supplier. You
don't say where abroad this is, but Out in the middle of nowhere this can
happen even here, but since you are close to a substation one wonders if you
are actually | to it or from a more distant one.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Nick Odell" wrote in message
news
A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would smooth
out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to substations
where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers on the street
and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system seems to have a
heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and pumps etc in
apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light duty supply
which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring mains
to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I can't
see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a radial
system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the cables were
screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time to time it
flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else. Could
it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and could
proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

"Graham." wrote in message
...

On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 19:36:59 +0000, Nick Odell
coalesced the vapors of human
experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension...

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker
together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick


It's good that you have posted that, because I have a similar anecdote
that I have been meaning to post.

I live in a semi built in 1919 in a suburban area, fed by a PILC cable
with TN-S earthling (in case any of that's relevant) from a substation
across the road, actually about 100m away. The mains has always been
extremely stable, with a meter reading of 245V RMS that hardly ever
varies, and I have always put this down to the proximity of the
substation.

The substation itself is interesting, I have never seen one like it.
It consists of two roadside cabinets, one has doors, I have never seen
them open, but I imagine it contains fuses, the other must be the
transformer, you can see a concrete block inside with holes.

Anyway, before Christmas we started to have trouble, three or four
events, involving different areas in the vicinity, not the "every
third house" that I imagined a phase down would effect.

On one occasion there was a brown-out of about 20 min when the supply
went down to 50v. All the LED lights in the house continued to work at
reduced brightness, and most switchmode wall-wart devices were
unaffected but the TVs and fridge/freezer went off of course, and I
had the presence of mind to unplug the latter. After 20 min the power
went off for a while.

After each event, the power was restored without any local
intervention.

A few days later Electricity Northwest excavated around the
transformer, and a week or so later this letter was sent to the
effected households.

I noticed that the mains voltage is lower now, about 239

https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/S2Q698

It seems like the transformer cabinet that I can see is the tip of an
iceberg.

I have some pictures of the excavated substation if anyone is
interested, the transformer has lost its signage many years ago, but I
think it said Farranti 11kV

I was surprised that we could be "back-fed" like that, as it implies
(to me) that the low-voltage side is extended to somewhere else in the
network.


That would be FERRANTI - made in Hollinwood Manchester !

Andrew

On Sun, 07 Jan 2018 19:36:59 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker
together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

I assume you are asking if the sub-station can induce current in the
wiring local to the lights such that A/C flows through the bulb even
though there isn't a circuit via the light switch.

Much like the party trick of taking a fluorescent light tube and holding
it underneath high voltage wires and seeing it light up.

If that is your suspicion, then presumably you could set up a test system
with a light fitting, bulb, and a load of wire running around the room but
not terminated at the mains. If that lights up it could give an idea of
what may be happening.

I assume the lights are as in the UK - that is switched live and neutral
return with no earth wiring involved to complicate things?

Oh, and you could just disconnect one of the spurs from the fuse box and
see what happens then.

Or, looking back again, (but confused by the reference to an unoccupied
house) are the lights on but then all flickering in time with each other?

Cheers


Dave R






--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 11:39:45 -0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I was surprised that we could be "back-fed" like that, as it
implies
(to me) that the low-voltage side is extended to somewhere else in
the
network.

Careful, "low voltage" in distribution terms is anything below 125
kV, I think, I sit to be corrected.

At the 11 kV level the network around here is a collection of inter
connected rings, with normally made and normally open manual air
switches. These divide the rings into sections a few miles long and
by altering the switches can isolate a section with a fault quite
quickly and restore supplies to properties not on the faulty section.

Being rural most places have their own pole transformer so linking at
the 240 V level just isn't going to happen but in towns/urban areas
240 V sections feed from different substations are likely to be quite
close together and it wouldn't take long to make a temporary join
between them. Probably at the same time as the excavated around the
duff transformer, presumably to isolate it and it's switch gear/fuses
from the system.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2018 11:39:45 -0000, Andrew Mawson wrote:

I was surprised that we could be "back-fed" like that, as it
implies
(to me) that the low-voltage side is extended to somewhere else in
the
network.

Careful, "low voltage" in distribution terms is anything below 125
kV, I think, I sit to be corrected.

Corection: Low Voltage is not exceeding 1000v ac or 1500v dc (BS7671)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 08/01/18 08:20, harry wrote:
On Monday, 8 January 2018 02:34:09 UTC, Nick Odell wrote:
A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?


There is a loose connection/faulty switch somewhere.

It needs rooting out, it could start a fire.
Sounds like it's associated with the consumer unit/main switches.
Could even be before the meter.
Or even on the meter.


I've checked all the terminations in what passes for a consumer unit and
all the screws are fully tight. The meter is on the outside of the house
behind a glass panel: I'll have to check whether we are a) able and b)
permitted to gain access to that. Thanks.

Nick

On 08/01/18 11:47, David wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jan 2018 19:36:59 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker
together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

I assume you are asking if the sub-station can induce current in the
wiring local to the lights such that A/C flows through the bulb even
though there isn't a circuit via the light switch.

Well, mainly wondering if a rough supply to/from the substation would
still be rough by the time it's been through the local transformer and
into the house. I'm hoping that there wouldn't be enough stray emf from
over the road to affect anything on our side otherwise what must life be
like for the houses either side of the substation?

Much like the party trick of taking a fluorescent light tube and holding
it underneath high voltage wires and seeing it light up.

If that is your suspicion, then presumably you could set up a test system
with a light fitting, bulb, and a load of wire running around the room but
not terminated at the mains. If that lights up it could give an idea of
what may be happening.

I assume the lights are as in the UK - that is switched live and neutral
return with no earth wiring involved to complicate things?

Oh, and you could just disconnect one of the spurs from the fuse box and
see what happens then.

Or, looking back again, (but confused by the reference to an unoccupied
house) are the lights on but then all flickering in time with each other?

Yes they all flicker in unison. There can be long periods of constant
light, then they all do it for a minute or so.

We are going through the process of sorting out and clearing the house
after a death in the family. The house hasn't been lived in for several
years and there are no electrical accessories connected to any of the
sockets. We are going to have to take a vacuum cleaner over there
sometime soon but I don't suppose the vac motor would really register
fluctuations of the sort I described.

Thanks,

Nick

On 08/01/18 20:55, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jan 2018 19:36:59 +0000, Nick Odell
wrote:

A long shot, I know, and this is not in the UK either but I wondered if
having an electricity substation immediately over the road could be the
direct cause of interference to the domestic lighting or even whether
there's a capacitance effect over longer mains cable runs that would
smooth out irregularities in the supply.

AIUI in this place high-voltage electricity is distributed to
substations where it is distributed at a lower voltage to transformers
on the street and delivered to domestic premises at 240v. Their system
seems to have a heavy duty 240v supply which provides power to lifts and
pumps etc in apartment buildings, factories and businesses and a light
duty supply which powers the apartments themselves and ordinary domestic
properties.

The actual domestic wiring seems to be on a radial system - no ring
mains to be seen. The flickering lights are at an unoccupied house with
absolutely nothing plugged into any power sockets: only the lighting
circuit is active and when it flickers, they all flicker together. I
can't see anything wrong with this wiring, other than that it is a
radial system, and I've checked the switches and made sure all the
cables were screwed down tight in their connectors. But still, from time
to time it flickers - and all the lights in all the rooms flicker together.

It's not a haunted house (probably). I can't think of anything else.
Could it be the quality of the electricity delivered to the premises and
could proximity to the substation be having an effect?

Thanks,

Nick

If you plug a table lamp into one of the power sockets, does that
flicker? IOW is it just the lighting circuits or does the flicker
include the power circuit? If the former, then it suggests a fault
within the property; if the latter, it's probably external.

We'll give that a try, thanks.


Do neighbouring properties flicker at the same time?

Not so easy to tell because of the common use of window shutters in the
hot season.

When I had a pottery kiln, only 7kW, but when the temperature
controller brought the power in, the house lights would flicker
momentarily and very slightly, even with a triac in the controller
that switched in at zero crossover volts. Is there some high-power
equipment being operated nearby, like a welder, that might cause the
lights to flicker visibly? I think the eye is quite sensitive to these
things. Is the flicker very slight, or a complete cut-off for a
fraction of a second?

This is why I wondered whether proximity to the sub station could be a
factor. Incidentally, "Substation" could be losing something in
translation. There is definitely no generation going on there but it is
a sizeable building. I'll try and remember to take a picture next time I
am there.

Thanks for the useful suggestions,

Nick