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Electrical question
I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern
wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? |
Electrical question
On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote:
I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? won't be a problem. But any mains fuse below 3A does fail in time. NT |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
On 02/01/2018 23:17, Robin wrote:
On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Can you not use a bell transformer? Eg https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TCTR7.html I could, but I've already got a suitable wallwart |
Electrical question
On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 01:38:36 +0000, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/01/2018 00:46, wrote: But any mains fuse below 3A does fail in time. NT Not when the load is constant and small. I fitted 2A or 3A fuses at every one of the thousands of TV distribution head-ends and repeaters I built between 1975 and 2015 and there was no problem with spurious fuse breaks. Our 34 year old central heating system is still on its original 3A fuse and I have a reasonable expectation that the fuse will outlive the boiler even if it lasts another 16 years or more (assuming the system doesn't suffer an electrical fault in the meantime). -- Johnny B Good |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 01:38:39 UTC, Bill Wright wrote:
On 03/01/2018 00:46, tabbypurr wrote: But any mains fuse below 3A does fail in time. Not when the load is constant and small. I fitted 2A or 3A fuses at every one of the thousands of TV distribution head-ends and repeaters I built between 1975 and 2015 and there was no problem with spurious fuse breaks. Bill I fitted many 2A fuse years ago with tiny loads and many eventually failed. But not thousands. Perhaps they weren't as good quality as they appeared. NT |
Electrical question
On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote:
I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. Low power but on all the time. Consider getting a (wireless) battery replacement. |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 07:17:10 UTC, harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. nonsense Low power but on all the time. Consider getting a (wireless) battery replacement. unwise |
Electrical question
On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote:
I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Nothing wrong with it in principle. A 3A fuse would probably be more useful. You could also look at 2A plugs/sockets if you can't find a PSU/transformer that can be wired directly. e.g: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB7046.html Having said that, you can get neat bell transformers that can be wired directly. What is it to power? Do you need DC or is AC ok? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Electrical question
Have you tested said wart does the job adequately? I've no idea of the load
but if its got any inductance in it then they don't like that very much. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! wrote in message ... On 02/01/2018 23:17, Robin wrote: On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Can you not use a bell transformer? Eg https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TCTR7.html I could, but I've already got a suitable wallwart |
Electrical question
I'm always finding fuses of many sizes in plugs stopping working recently
after about 10 years. the all just fell to bits in that the wire inside came off the end. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! wrote in message ... On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? won't be a problem. But any mains fuse below 3A does fail in time. NT |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
In article ,
wrote: On 02/01/2018 23:17, Robin wrote: On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Can you not use a bell transformer? Eg https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TCTR7.html I could, but I've already got a suitable wallwart Are you sure it is up to the job? Most bell transformers are bigger than wall warts. Since you already have the wiring in place for a proper bell transformer, why not just replace it? -- *Why is a boxing ring square? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Electrical question
In article ,
harry wrote: Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. Low power but on all the time. And you think battery costs will be less? Consider getting a (wireless) battery replacement. Which ain't going to last 80 years. ;-) -- *Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Electrical question
On 03/01/2018 09:59, Brian Gaff wrote:
Have you tested said wart does the job adequately? I've no idea of the load but if its got any inductance in it then they don't like that very much. Brian It's fine with a big capacitor across the output. |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 10:37:47 UTC, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr expressed precisely : On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? won't be a problem. But any mains fuse below 3A does fail in time. NT Fuses range in value from ratings of 1,000's of amps, down to just a few milliamps in equipment fuses. They only tend to blow when subjected to either a fault load or a regular surge load. by definition they don't 'blow' when they break, they just break. |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 12:18:19 UTC, wrote:
On 03/01/2018 09:59, Brian Gaff wrote: Have you tested said wart does the job adequately? I've no idea of the load but if its got any inductance in it then they don't like that very much. Brian It's fine with a big capacitor across the output. yes, done that before. A switched mode wart would get rid of the wasted 2 watts. NT |
Electrical question
On 03/01/2018 08:35, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Nothing wrong with it in principle. A 3A fuse would probably be more useful. You could also look at 2A plugs/sockets if you can't find a PSU/transformer that can be wired directly. e.g: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB7046.html Having said that, you can get neat bell transformers that can be wired directly. What is it to power? Do you need DC or is AC ok? It's for a servant call board, almost identical to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNZxBMfUmZ8. There's also a repeater bell at the far end of the house. It was running, very feebly, on AC. I experimented with a bench supply and found that it's much happier with about 5V DC so found a 5V wart in a box and added a 470uF cap inside the indicator box. The socket needs to be 13A because of the wart plug. |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 11:17:35 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , harry wrote: Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. Low power but on all the time. And you think battery costs will be less? The battery is only in use for a few seconds each week. The transformer is continually drawing current |
Electrical question
In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes: I'm always finding fuses of many sizes in plugs stopping working recently after about 10 years. the all just fell to bits in that the wire inside came off the end. I do see some old fuses at repair events which are not labelled as BS1362. I have one which failed to interrupt the supply when it blew and turned into an arc lamp inside the plug. There was no evidence it was sand filled, so failing to break the circuit is not unexpected. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 12:30:33 UTC, wrote:
On 03/01/2018 08:35, John Rumm wrote: On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Nothing wrong with it in principle. A 3A fuse would probably be more useful. You could also look at 2A plugs/sockets if you can't find a PSU/transformer that can be wired directly. e.g: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB7046.html Having said that, you can get neat bell transformers that can be wired directly. What is it to power? Do you need DC or is AC ok? It's for a servant call board, almost identical to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNZxBMfUmZ8. There's also a repeater bell at the far end of the house. It was running, very feebly, on AC. I experimented with a bench supply and found that it's much happier with about 5V DC so found a 5V wart in a box and added a 470uF cap inside the indicator box. The socket needs to be 13A because of the wart plug. I got better results with several thousand uF at the PSU end of the wire before the switch. Electromagnetic movements benefit from a good kick. That was running an old mercury switch dingdong. NT |
Electrical question
On 03/01/2018 19:42, wrote:
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 12:30:33 UTC, wrote: On 03/01/2018 08:35, John Rumm wrote: On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Nothing wrong with it in principle. A 3A fuse would probably be more useful. You could also look at 2A plugs/sockets if you can't find a PSU/transformer that can be wired directly. e.g: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB7046.html Having said that, you can get neat bell transformers that can be wired directly. What is it to power? Do you need DC or is AC ok? It's for a servant call board, almost identical to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNZxBMfUmZ8. There's also a repeater bell at the far end of the house. It was running, very feebly, on AC. I experimented with a bench supply and found that it's much happier with about 5V DC so found a 5V wart in a box and added a 470uF cap inside the indicator box. The socket needs to be 13A because of the wart plug. I got better results with several thousand uF at the PSU end of the wire before the switch. Electromagnetic movements benefit from a good kick. That was running an old mercury switch dingdong. NT I didn't explain that well. The cap is inside the box but across the output of the wart, if it was across the bell it would make things worse. |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:53:01 +0000, wrote:
I didn't explain that well. Well, try something new Crank Doorbell Circuit Schematic http://www.electroschematics.com/6304/crank-doorbell/ |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
ARW wrote:
On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Why would you want a non lighting power source? Why would you want a socket with a 3A fuse in it if the wallwart is designed to fit a 13A socket? Am I just missing something? Why not just fit a 13A socket from the existing power supply, plug your wallwart into that and be done with it? I agree. The wiring to the socket is protected by the MCB and it is the wall wart's job (if even vaguely reputable) to protect its own 240V components as well as the ElV side. -- Roger Hayter |
Electrical question
On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 21:28:19 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 03/01/2018 08:17, tabbypurr wrote: On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 07:17:10 UTC, harry wrote: On Tuesday, 2 January 2018 23:10:04 UTC, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. How many batteries can you buy with say a years worth at a 10W load? No newish wallwart quiesces at anywhere near 10W. Not even 1W now. 1W is about £1 a year, for which you can get a poundland pack of junk batteries or a few good ones. The batteries are probably slightly cheaper if using electronic sounders, but you have to buy & replace them every so often, you'l get missed calls and the battery contacts will corrode sooner or later. In short it's a false economy, if it's an economy at all. Consider getting a (wireless) battery replacement. unwise Maybe, you can have wired battery powered door bells. Yes - the worst of both worlds. NT |
Electrical question
On 03/01/2018 20:46, JAB wrote:
On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 19:53:01 +0000, wrote: I didn't explain that well. Well, try something new Crank Doorbell Circuit Schematic http://www.electroschematics.com/6304/crank-doorbell/ Not quite in keeping with the application, which is almost identical to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNZxBMfUmZ8. Each call button is wired in series with an electromagnetic and then with the bell. The electromagnet waggles a flag in a window to show which room has called |
Electrical question
On 03/01/2018 20:30, ARW wrote:
On 02/01/2018 23:10, wrote: I need to replace an ancient bell/call box power supply with a modern wallwart. The original transformer (from the 1930s, with internal fuses in both L and N) was wired into the lighting circuit. It would be very difficult to get non-lighting power to this location (near the ceiling, in the kitchen), I don't have space for a fused spur and I can't find a 13A socket with a built-in fuse. I'm planning on using a standard 13A socket, fitting an internal 500mA in-line fuse and adding a suitable label to the socket. What does the jury think? Why would you want a non lighting power source? Why would you want a socket with a 3A fuse in it if the wallwart is designed to fit a 13A socket? Am I just missing something? Why not just fit a 13A socket from the existing power supply, plug your wallwart into that and be done with it? Well done that man! I'd assumed that having a 13A socket on the lighting circuit was against some regulation (that I hadn't found) and failed to engage brain. Thanks! Brain now engaged and I will stop thinking about it (but I *will* add a label to the socket, for the benefit of whoever is here next). |
Electrical question
In article ,
harry wrote: On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 11:17:35 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , harry wrote: Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. Low power but on all the time. And you think battery costs will be less? The battery is only in use for a few seconds each week. The transformer is continually drawing current And how much current do you think it draws? -- *Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Electrical question
On Thursday, 4 January 2018 11:42:17 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , harry wrote: On Wednesday, 3 January 2018 11:17:35 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article , harry wrote: Your door bell system with transformer uses a lot of energy. Low power but on all the time. And you think battery costs will be less? The battery is only in use for a few seconds each week. The transformer is continually drawing current And how much current do you think it draws? the battery or the transformer, how about both :) |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
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Electrical question
In article 5826c7ec-ce64-4df5-9a2f-
, says... 1W is about £1 a year, for which you can get a poundland pack of junk batteries or a few good ones. What makes you think that Poundland batteries are junk? I've been using their Kodak Extralife batteries for years - long life and never had one leak. Those currently on sale have a shelflife of ten years. The only downside is that I noticed last week that you only get 5 for a £1 now - before it was 6. However, everywhere else I've seen them there have never been more than 4 in a pack. Running costs are less than a third of the costs of the cheapest Duracell - see the results he http://www.batteryshowdown.com/ -- Terry --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
Electrical question
On Thursday, 4 January 2018 19:31:49 UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article 5826c7ec-ce64-4df5-9a2f- , tabbypurr says... 1W is about £1 a year, for which you can get a poundland pack of junk batteries or a few good ones. What makes you think that Poundland batteries are junk? ZnCl batteries are somewhat junk. Alkaline not. The site you linked to shows one reason why, the other is their habit of leaking. Brand has nothing to do with it. NT |
Electrical question
On Thursday, 4 January 2018 18:59:33 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 04/01/2018 00:01, wrote: On 03/01/2018 20:30, ARW wrote: Why not just fit a 13A socket from the existing power supply, plug your wallwart into that and be done with it? Well done that man! I'd assumed that having a 13A socket on the lighting circuit was against some regulation (that I hadn't found) and failed to engage brain. Thanks! Brain now engaged and I will stop thinking about it (but I *will* add a label to the socket, for the benefit of whoever is here next). Having 13A socket on a lighting circuit is fine as long as it is not going to be mistaken for a general purpose socket. An additional label on the socket also helps. I doubt that anyone is going to climb up and use your doorbell socket to plug a toaster in:-) Oh come on I'm sure some of us work with studenys, apprentices, YTS or whatever the lastest term is. Monkey dust :- Kelly work experience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmdTGJxIhg |
Electrical question
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Electrical question
On 04/01/2018 18:59, ARW wrote:
On 04/01/2018 00:01, wrote: On 03/01/2018 20:30, ARW wrote: Why not just fit a 13A socket from the existing power supply, plug your wallwart into that and be done with it? Well done that man! I'd assumed that having a 13A socket on the lighting circuit was against some regulation (that I hadn't found) and failed to engage brain. Thanks! Brain now engaged and I will stop thinking about it (but I *will* add a label to the socket, for the benefit of whoever is here next). Having 13A socket on a lighting circuit is fine as long as it is not going to be mistaken for a general purpose socket. An additional label on the socket also helps. I doubt that anyone is going to climb up and use your doorbell socket to plug a toaster in:-) -- Adam Do US or continental wall warts plug into 5 amp round pin sockets intended for lighting ?. |
Electrical question
In article , Andrew97d-
says... Do US or continental wall warts plug into 5 amp round pin sockets intended for lighting ?. There is no such thing as a 5A socket in Europe but continental wallwarts fit sockets both for the 2-pin 2.5A 'Europlug' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europlug as well as the standard 16A Schuko or its French/Belgian variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko You may encounter 6A versions of the Europlug and matching - usually multiple - sockets but they are not defined by any standard. No idea what they do in the US -- Terry --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
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