...and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On 07/11/17 18:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

..and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


...and right now, in order to to alarm the natives, BMreports who publish
the raw data are mysteriously absent from the internet



--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

On 07/11/2017 19:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/11/17 18:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

..and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


..and right now, in order to to alarm the natives, BMreports who publish
the raw data are mysteriously absent from the internet



15% coal too. So much for "no need for coal, solar and wind can do it all".

On 07/11/2017 18:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

...and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


Must be something wrong with your data. Solar did SFA today

More seriously - the graph concerned is titled "Hydro/Pumped/Bio" -
Solar is missing. And it does show sometimes.

Andy

On 07/11/17 21:24, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 07/11/2017 18:40, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

...and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


Must be something wrong with your data. Solar did SFA today

abou a gig atmidday


More seriously - the graph concerned is titled "Hydro/Pumped/Bio" -
Solar is missing. And it does show sometimes.

no, it doesn't

not on the title bar

just in the graph. like today.



Andy

On Tue, 7 Nov 2017 18:40:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:


..and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk

Oh FFS here we go again.

With a minimum derated margin of around 4.2GW across the demand peak and zero
loss of load probability for every half hour period today there always was
plenty in reserve.

201MWh of OCGT on a total supply of 886704MWh (20171106 @ 2300 - 20171107 @
2300) is 0.02% or to put it another way SFA.

Plus as predicted a long time ago the sun did set today exactly when expected,
when the sun shone and PV output peaked the gas inlet valves on many CCGT's were
throttled and less gas was burnt reducing CO2 emissions. The heat input did not
stay the same and efficiency was affected by a small part of a percentage point.
No thermal plant of any description was left 'ticking over' in case the wind
suddenly dropped or the sun was obscured by cloud.

--

On 07/11/17 23:48, The Other Mike wrote:
efficiency was affected by a small part of a percentage point.

No Mike. A lot more than that.

You should look at the published heat rate curves for CCGT.




--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

Interestingly, near me they want to build a power storage facility in a
green belt area with over 70 battery boxes, anciliary cabinets and control
systems etc etc, just over the road from one of the major sub stations. its
a private company. Does anyone actually know how these work and whether its
likely to be of much use?

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

..and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


--
Of what good are dead warriors? . Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory . The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 8:08:12 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Interestingly, near me they want to build a power storage facility in a
green belt area with over 70 battery boxes, anciliary cabinets and control
systems etc etc, just over the road from one of the major sub stations. its
a private company. Does anyone actually know how these work and whether its
likely to be of much use?

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

..and its not even winter yet...

http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk


--
Of what good are dead warriors? . Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory . The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.


They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is cheap and discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of instant power delivery. There are some large existing facilities around the world with a modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant UPS's for remote regions. Expect to see more facilities like that as end of life electric vehicle batteries become available (which will still have a fair capacity remaining).

In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article ,
" wrote:

They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is cheap and
discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of instant power
delivery. There are some large existing facilities around the world with a
modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant UPS's for remote regions.

100MW for how long?

Exactly. Otherwise a meaningless parameter for a battery.

--
bert

On 08/11/17 21:08, bert wrote:
In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article ,
" wrote:

They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is cheap
and
discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of instant
power
delivery. There are some large existing facilities around the world
with a
modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant UPS's for remote
regions.

100MW for how long?

Exactly. Otherwise a meaningless parameter for a battery.

Most 'eco' statistics are meaningless.

Earlier this year greenies were pestering me to get rid of the 'Coal'
dial on gridwatch and put 'Solar' there already as coal was no longer
relevant...

I pointed out that overall coal still produced more than solar by some
margin.

Just not when they were looking..


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:

They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is cheap
and discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of
instant power delivery. There are some large existing facilities around
the world with a modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant
UPS's for remote regions.

100MW for how long?

The R4 piece about California quoted the figure based on a 4 hour perdiod.
Not sure if this is a standard or not.

--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/11/2017 10:53, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 10:43:38 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is cheap and
discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of instant power
delivery. There are some large existing facilities around the world with a
modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant UPS's for remote regions.

100MW for how long?

And are they really going to be equipped with partially knackered
rechargeable batteries from old electric cars? The mind boggles!

Nissan are certainly looking into it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096jb29

5min 30 secs into the programme.

--
Chris B (News)

Tim Streater wrote:

And how many battery cells would be required for anything substantial?
And how would maintenance be done for such a large pack

Scroll down for a picture of the modules in one such battery barn ..

http://www.green-hedge.com/the-energy-barn

On 08/11/2017 12:34, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Chris Hogg
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2017 10:43:38 +0000, Tim Streater
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

They work exactly as you expect charging up when electricity is
cheap and
discharging when it is expensive. They have the advantage of instant
power
delivery. There are some large existing facilities around the world
with a
modest output (100MW or thereabouts) acting as giant UPS's for remote
regions.

100MW for how long?

And are they really going to be equipped with partially knackered
rechargeable batteries from old electric cars? The mind boggles!

And how many battery cells would be required for anything substantial?
And how would maintenance be done for such a large pack, which is also
going to be a fire hazard par excellence if one of the partially
knackered rechargeable batteries eventually overheats? Would you like
to be in the middle of such a pack, doing battery cell replacement,
when it goes off?

Or is this just another hand-waving piece of b/s?

And why wouldn't the knackered EV batteries have their materials
recycled to avoid having to mine and process even more raw materials for
the increasing number and all the replacements?

SteveW

On 08/11/17 17:29, Steve Walker wrote:

And why wouldn't the knackered EV batteries have their materials
recycled to avoid having to mine and process even more raw materials for
the increasing number and all the replacements?

becaus it is ,more expensive and doesnt work as well?


SteveW




--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
Interestingly, near me they want to build a power storage facility in a
green belt area with over 70 battery boxes, anciliary cabinets and
control systems etc etc, just over the road from one of the major sub
stations. its a private company. Does anyone actually know how these
work and whether its likely to be of much use?

There was a piece on their use in California on the radio yesterday. But
not for the UK. We need to stick with traditional ways of doing things
like BSA motorbikes and so on. Not a good idea to do any research on new -
we can always buy it from China.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.