I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still
available. Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years,
he bought one again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around
it at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full
scale when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards
were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the
supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).
--
Bill

On 18/10/2017 15:52, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:43:49 +0100, Bill wrote:

I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still
available. Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years,
he bought one again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around
it at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full
scale when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards
were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the
supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

Microwave radiation is non-ionizing.

That means? to us peasants.

On 18/10/2017 16:17, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Broadback
wrote:

On 18/10/2017 15:52, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:43:49 +0100, Bill wrote:

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

Microwave radiation is non-ionizing.

That means? to us peasants.

You can tolerate a little of almost anything. The dose makes the poison
- even for ionising radiations. We evolved on a planet with natural
background radiation. People who work in unusually hot workplaces and
also much less radioactive locations like Boulby potash mine are health
monitored to see if there are any detectable effects with dose.

There appears to be a smallish dose that has almost no effect at all
because our DNA repair mechanisms can keep up with it.

That the radiation photons are not energetic enough to damage your
cells, DNA, or anything else. And this is true no matter how many of
them there are, i.e. no matter how much the needle zooms up the scale.

However, if there is a significant microwave leak then you can cook your
insides or end up with early cataracts of the eyes. There was a nasty
one with a chef leaning on the door of an industrial kitchen microwave
that resulted in the door seal leaking badly and he lost a kidney.

I once walked into a lab where someone had a 1kW helium microwave plasma
on the bench with all the safety interlocks defeated and no Faraday cage
around it. Very pretty colour it was too but extremely bad for the eyes.
He said it made tuning it easier. I expect he is blind by now.

Of course, if such radiation is absorbed by your body you might boil to
death. But not at 10mW/sq metre or whatever it was reading.

If you move up the electromagnetic spectrum from microwave, you
eventually get to infra-red, then visible light, then UV. IIRC, it's
somewhere in the UV band that radiation photons are energetic enough to
do damage to your DNA etc, which is why you can get cancer from it.

Despite that I do know one or two former microwave link engineers who
spent a lot of time near powerful transmitters who died young and of
brain tumours so I wouldn't entirely rule it out. Weak thermal effects
can cause proteins to refold into the wrong shape (eg. like egg white).

If you require it to activate chemistry with a single photon then it
takes something shorter wave than about 400nm (purple).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 18/10/2017 17:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:17, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Broadback
wrote:

On 18/10/2017 15:52, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:43:49 +0100, Bill wrote:

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps
that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

Microwave radiation is non-ionizing.

That means? to us peasants.

You can tolerate a little of almost anything. The dose makes the poison
- even for ionising radiations. We evolved on a planet with natural
background radiation. People who work in unusually hot workplaces and
also much less radioactive locations like Boulby potash mine are health
monitored to see if there are any detectable effects with dose.

There appears to be a smallish dose that has almost no effect at all
because our DNA repair mechanisms can keep up with it.

That the radiation photons are not energetic enough to damage your
cells, DNA, or anything else. And this is true no matter how many of
them there are, i.e. no matter how much the needle zooms up the scale.

However, if there is a significant microwave leak then you can cook your
insides or end up with early cataracts of the eyes. There was a nasty
one with a chef leaning on the door of an industrial kitchen microwave
that resulted in the door seal leaking badly and he lost a kidney.

I once walked into a lab where someone had a 1kW helium microwave plasma
on the bench with all the safety interlocks defeated and no Faraday cage
around it. Very pretty colour it was too but extremely bad for the eyes.
He said it made tuning it easier. I expect he is blind by now.

Of course, if such radiation is absorbed by your body you might boil to
death. But not at 10mW/sq metre or whatever it was reading.

If you move up the electromagnetic spectrum from microwave, you
eventually get to infra-red, then visible light, then UV. IIRC, it's
somewhere in the UV band that radiation photons are energetic enough to
do damage to your DNA etc, which is why you can get cancer from it.

Despite that I do know one or two former microwave link engineers who
spent a lot of time near powerful transmitters who died young and of
brain tumours so I wouldn't entirely rule it out. Weak thermal effects
can cause proteins to refold into the wrong shape (eg. like egg white).

If you require it to activate chemistry with a single photon then it
takes something shorter wave than about 400nm (purple).


Many years ago I was actively involved in non-ionising radiation
exposure issues. Memory may fail me but I think microwave exposure
limits were set to give a temperature rise of less than 1 degC, whereas
lower frequencies were limited to avoid nerve stimulation effects
(physical or magnetophosphenes) or corona. If anybody wants to know more
the ICNIRP guidelines were/are probably the most authoritative source:
http://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/pub...NIRPemfgdl.pdf

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:44:00 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still
available. Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years,
he bought one again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around
it at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full
scale when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards
were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the
supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

You say radiation repeatedly, but radiation of what? Microwave ovens leak tiny amounts of ~2.4GHz rf, which is afaik harmless. It does however screw with a wide range of electronics, causing circuits to malfunction. I would not expect any modern microwave oven to be an rf hazard, but if you go back 40-50 years some certainly were.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:44:00 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter. He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired
oven still set off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off
alarms.. He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to
Yorkshire where the supplier was based. I assume his money was
refunded. He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago. He liked the timer on the radiating oven
because it could be set accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and
saw it was still available. Thinking they must have solved the problem
after two years, he bought one again. He measured the replacement. The
alarm on his meter goes off all around it at 5mv/sq metre, and full
scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full scale when held 2" from the
oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those
standards were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back
with the supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

You say radiation repeatedly, but radiation of what? Microwave ovens leak
tiny amounts of ~2.4GHz rf, which is afaik harmless. It does however
screw with a wide range of electronics, causing circuits to malfunction.
I would not expect any modern microwave oven to be an rf hazard, but if
you go back 40-50 years some certainly were.

There is also the point that cooking witha microwave is not something done
24/7. Your friend's meter alarm level was probably set assuming you were
exposed to that radiation for a full working day.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 18:45:31 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 15:44:00 UTC+1, Bill wrote:

I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter. He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired
oven still set off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off
alarms.. He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to
Yorkshire where the supplier was based. I assume his money was
refunded. He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago. He liked the timer on the radiating oven
because it could be set accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and
saw it was still available. Thinking they must have solved the problem
after two years, he bought one again. He measured the replacement. The
alarm on his meter goes off all around it at 5mv/sq metre, and full
scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full scale when held 2" from the
oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those
standards were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back
with the supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

You say radiation repeatedly, but radiation of what? Microwave ovens leak
tiny amounts of ~2.4GHz rf, which is afaik harmless. It does however
screw with a wide range of electronics, causing circuits to malfunction.
I would not expect any modern microwave oven to be an rf hazard, but if
you go back 40-50 years some certainly were.

There is also the point that cooking witha microwave is not something done
24/7. Your friend's meter alarm level was probably set assuming you were
exposed to that radiation for a full working day.

So far we have no idea what sort of radiation the meter detects.


NT

In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:01:05 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

There appears to be a smallish dose that has almost no effect at all
because our DNA repair mechanisms can keep up with it

It's entirely possible that some radiation is required as part of
evolution ?

So, I take it that the general view is that the measured levels are
nowhere near being dangerous in actual use. That's good.

Nevertheless, it appears that ovens are being made and sold that have
external radiation levels well over double the apparent recommended
maximum of 5mW per square cm (sorry about the error in units in the
original post) at 2" away from any part of the device. This seems to be
the Federal standard in the US.
It is interesting that the other make of oven that he has been using
gives negligible radiation readings on his meter. I don't know what his
meter actually measures.
It's also interesting that his attempts to query this with the
manufacturer and/or importer and with trading standards seem to have
fallen into a black hole.
I would have expected Samsung at least to be able to point to the
regulations and a source of some basic generic test data on what the
general public might perceive to be a safety issue.
--
Bill

Does anyone know how these numbers compare with the field strength
crossing the body of a person stood on a hilltop 16 miles from Emley
Moor? Or the field strength 30mm away from a smartphone (where your
brain is)?

Bill

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:05:55 UTC+1, Bill wrote:
In message , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:01:05 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

There appears to be a smallish dose that has almost no effect at all
because our DNA repair mechanisms can keep up with it

It's entirely possible that some radiation is required as part of
evolution ?

So, I take it that the general view is that the measured levels are
nowhere near being dangerous in actual use. That's good.

Nevertheless, it appears that ovens are being made and sold that have
external radiation levels well over double the apparent recommended
maximum of 5mW per square cm (sorry about the error in units in the
original post) at 2" away from any part of the device. This seems to be
the Federal standard in the US.
It is interesting that the other make of oven that he has been using
gives negligible radiation readings on his meter. I don't know what his
meter actually measures.
It's also interesting that his attempts to query this with the
manufacturer and/or importer and with trading standards seem to have
fallen into a black hole.
I would have expected Samsung at least to be able to point to the
regulations and a source of some basic generic test data on what the
general public might perceive to be a safety issue.

All this is meaningless until you have some actual data. At this point we don't.


NT

On 18/10/2017 15:43, Bill wrote:
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still
available. Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years,
he bought one again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around
it at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full
scale when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards
were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the
supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads this).

mV is a useless measurement for microwave radiation.
What power does it leak and is it from the magnetron?
In fact a radiation meter that measures mV is useless for anything I can
think of.

On 18/10/2017 19:41, Bill Wright wrote:
Does anyone know how these numbers compare with the field strength
crossing the body of a person stood on a hilltop 16 miles from Emley
Moor? Or the field strength 30mm away from a smartphone (where your
brain is)?

Bill

But at what frequency as they are all different ones?
What are you trying to imply with regards to this mystery radiation?

mV is a useless measurement for microwave radiation.
What power does it leak and is it from the magnetron?
In fact a radiation meter that measures mV is useless for anything I can
think of.


Quite so. All the instruments I have seen for this purpose measure in
mW/cm^2, so what the OP's friend's meter is for is anyone's guess.

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 18/10/17 23:22, Graham. wrote:

mV is a useless measurement for microwave radiation.
What power does it leak and is it from the magnetron?
In fact a radiation meter that measures mV is useless for anything I can
think of.


Quite so. All the instruments I have seen for this purpose measure in
mW/cm^2, so what the OP's friend's meter is for is anyone's guess.

Well field strength is volts per meter which is volts squared per meter
squared which is watts per square meter.


--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:41:07 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
Does anyone know how these numbers compare with the field strength
crossing the body of a person stood on a hilltop 16 miles from Emley
Moor? Or the field strength 30mm away from a smartphone (where your
brain is)?

Bill

Yes - at least for my microwave oven. Last time I measured it (with
an antenna and spectrum analyzer) the leakage from the oven was
similar to the signal from an 1800MHz mobile phone transmitting at
full power at the same distance.

John

To be honest, unless you are going to sit and cuddle the microwave for days,
I'm not convinced the levels are that dangerous.
Most of the meters you used to get were much less sensitive than what you
say.
In the main, radiation monitors are meant for higher energy radiation which
is dangerous, like gamma for example, the fact that they work at other
energies may well just be accidental.

It is interesting though that other makes show lower output of leaks.
Normally any leaks show poor design. I always want microwave ovens to be
made with metal sides, some are not I notice. Usually though the leaks tend
to be doors and seals of doors.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bill" wrote in message
...
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or opinion
in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work maintaining
things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a radiation meter,
so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still available.
Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years, he bought one
again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around it
at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full scale
when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built to
full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards were.
He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung. They
have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has repeatedly
rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off. They blamed
their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to get through at
all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads this).
--
Bill

Well its not exactly true, but at the levels mentioned It would make little
difference even if it was I suspect.
Having worked with radar engineers on all sorts of different bands gear
they seem to come to little harm even if they do what you would not be
allowed to now, demonstrate warming a sandwich on the desk using a horn
antenna.
Look at the folk on lifeboats walking the deck within feed off the radar
which is on at the time. if there had been an issue one would have heard
about it by now.
Mind you if you aimed the output from your magnetron at your wedding tackle
you would probably not have many children.


X Rays can be dangerous. In the early days of Colour tvs, as many will
recall, you almost needed a live in engineer and one of the main makes was
Bush. They had an unfortunate fault condition where the valve that drove the
beam and generated the 30,000 volts eht went into a mode where X Rays fired
straight out the bottom of the cabinet, and there are anecdotal stories
about pets getting cancer and all sorts as they lay between the legs of the
set. Eventually a lead cover was used under the offending component, but
many service engineers wore radiation monitors.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:43:49 +0100, Bill wrote:

I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

2 years ago a friend bought a microwave oven. He used to work
maintaining things like scanners at a specialist hospital. He has a
radiation meter, so he tested the radiation, which set off the alarm on
the meter.
He contacted the suppliers, who repaired it. The repaired oven still set
off alarms. They replaced it. The replacement set off alarms..
He contacted trading standards, who referred the case to Yorkshire where
the supplier was based. I assume his money was refunded.
He heard no more.

He replaced the oven with one of a different make. It was fine until it
died a week or so ago.
He liked the timer on the radiating oven because it could be set
accurately enough to heat his mince pies, and saw it was still
available. Thinking they must have solved the problem after two years,
he bought one again.
He measured the replacement. The alarm on his meter goes off all around
it at 5mv/sq metre, and full scale is 10mv/sq.m. It goes beyond full
scale when held 2" from the oven.

He rang the suppliers, who just said that all their equipment was built
to full European standards. They couldn't tell him what those standards
were. He was then referred round in a circle and ended back with the
supplier.

They referred him to the actual makers of the rebadged oven, Samsung.
They have referred him to another organisation in Kendal. He has
repeatedly rung them and spoken briefly, but been repeatedly cut off.
They blamed their new phone system and he has latterly been unable to
get through at all.

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

Microwave radiation is non-ionizing.

On 19/10/17 13:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Huge
wrote:

On 2017-10-19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

X Rays can be dangerous.

This has nothing to do with microwave radiation.

The morons see the word "radiation" and get all squeeky.

Indeed.

Once again, microwave radiation is unable to damage DNA. If you get
inside the microwave oven you may boil to death, but your DNA will be
undamaged.

Dont think boiling DNA does much good to it though :-)

But you are right, What leaks out of a microwave is less than what is
coming out of a wifi or a cellphine at and at very similar frequencies.





--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:57:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/10/17 13:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Huge
wrote:

On 2017-10-19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

X Rays can be dangerous.

This has nothing to do with microwave radiation.

The morons see the word "radiation" and get all squeeky.

Indeed.

Once again, microwave radiation is unable to damage DNA. If you get
inside the microwave oven you may boil to death, but your DNA will be
undamaged.

Dont think boiling DNA does much good to it though :-)

But you are right, What leaks out of a microwave is less than what is
coming out of a wifi or a cellphine at and at very similar frequencies.

In this case, 'similar' being an order of magnitude?


--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 19/10/17 15:03, Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017 14:57:23 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 19/10/17 13:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Huge
wrote:

On 2017-10-19, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

X Rays can be dangerous.

This has nothing to do with microwave radiation.

The morons see the word "radiation" and get all squeeky.

Indeed.

Once again, microwave radiation is unable to damage DNA. If you get
inside the microwave oven you may boil to death, but your DNA will be
undamaged.

Dont think boiling DNA does much good to it though :-)

But you are right, What leaks out of a microwave is less than what is
coming out of a wifi or a cellphine at and at very similar frequencies.

In this case, 'similar' being an order of magnitude?


Yes. mobile phones would typically be along with wifi an order of
magnitude greater.

Unless the microwave shielding is more or less broken



--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:18:45 UTC+1, wrote:
On 18/10/2017 17:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 18/10/2017 16:17, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Broadback
wrote:

On 18/10/2017 15:52, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 15:43:49 +0100, Bill wrote:

I've certainly never measured the radiation from our oven. Perhaps
that
explains her funny moods? (That's a joke in case my wife ever reads
this).

Microwave radiation is non-ionizing.

That means? to us peasants.

You can tolerate a little of almost anything. The dose makes the poison
- even for ionising radiations. We evolved on a planet with natural
background radiation. People who work in unusually hot workplaces and
also much less radioactive locations like Boulby potash mine are health
monitored to see if there are any detectable effects with dose.

There appears to be a smallish dose that has almost no effect at all
because our DNA repair mechanisms can keep up with it.

That the radiation photons are not energetic enough to damage your
cells, DNA, or anything else. And this is true no matter how many of
them there are, i.e. no matter how much the needle zooms up the scale.

However, if there is a significant microwave leak then you can cook your
insides or end up with early cataracts of the eyes. There was a nasty
one with a chef leaning on the door of an industrial kitchen microwave
that resulted in the door seal leaking badly and he lost a kidney.

I once walked into a lab where someone had a 1kW helium microwave plasma
on the bench with all the safety interlocks defeated and no Faraday cage
around it. Very pretty colour it was too but extremely bad for the eyes.
He said it made tuning it easier. I expect he is blind by now.

Of course, if such radiation is absorbed by your body you might boil to
death. But not at 10mW/sq metre or whatever it was reading.

If you move up the electromagnetic spectrum from microwave, you
eventually get to infra-red, then visible light, then UV. IIRC, it's
somewhere in the UV band that radiation photons are energetic enough to
do damage to your DNA etc, which is why you can get cancer from it.

Despite that I do know one or two former microwave link engineers who
spent a lot of time near powerful transmitters who died young and of
brain tumours so I wouldn't entirely rule it out. Weak thermal effects
can cause proteins to refold into the wrong shape (eg. like egg white).

If you require it to activate chemistry with a single photon then it
takes something shorter wave than about 400nm (purple).


Many years ago I was actively involved in non-ionising radiation
exposure issues. Memory may fail me but I think microwave exposure
limits were set to give a temperature rise of less than 1 degC, whereas
lower frequencies were limited to avoid nerve stimulation effects
(physical or magnetophosphenes) or corona. If anybody wants to know more
the ICNIRP guidelines were/are probably the most authoritative source:
http://www.icnirp.org/cms/upload/pub...NIRPemfgdl.pdf

If you want something a bit simpler, Maplin has one a red/green scale ;-)

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/microwave...n-tester-n53fu

On 18/10/17 15:43, Bill wrote:
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

[...]
One day many years ago I put my face right up against the glass door of
the microwave to see how the cooking inside was going. I had the
strangest sensation of having my eyeballs heated up. I have never done
it again.

TW

On Friday, 20 October 2017 16:39:04 UTC+1, TimW wrote:
On 18/10/17 15:43, Bill wrote:
I find this interesting. Maybe someone here has some expertise or
opinion in this area?

[...]
One day many years ago I put my face right up against the glass door of
the microwave to see how the cooking inside was going. I had the
strangest sensation of having my eyeballs heated up. I have never done
it again.

TW

You can feel heat around door edges too. Nothing to do with rf though, nukes blow out warmed air.


NT

On 20/10/2017 16:27, whisky-dave wrote:


If you want something a bit simpler, Maplin has one a red/green scale ;-)

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/microwave...n-tester-n53fu


At what level does it go from saying safe to giving a warning?

Perhaps its a another use for the screwdriver with a neon in the handle
to detect live mains. In a darkened kitchen wave the screwdriver handle
around the door seal of an operating microwave and if the neon lights
you have a problem.

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