why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?
Is it cost or Human Rights?

I don't know, maybe its invisible dye.

Back in the old days of Tomorrows World there were lots of these systems,
however if somebody triggered it accidentally then there would be hell to
pay.
Brian

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"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?
Is it cost or Human Rights?

On 06/10/17 18:15, DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?
Is it cost or Human Rights?

Incompetence.



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?
Is it cost or Human Rights?


Good question. Simple tilt switch or other vibration sensor should be all
that's needed.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06-Oct-17 6:15 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?

You are about 16 years later than the industry with that idea. :-)


--
--

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 06-Oct-17 6:15 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?

You are about 16 years later than the industry with that idea. :-)


Um, so why are ATMs still targeted? If the money inside is unusable you
would have thought that the word would have spread.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06/10/2017 22:11, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-06, Tim+ wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 06-Oct-17 6:15 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:

why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?

A loud alarm and a dense fog of waxoline dye would be my recommendation
after a ram raid against an ATM. FWIW in the 1990's the ones in Japan
could be easily dismantled with the right screwdriver (I'm not kidding).

You are about 16 years later than the industry with that idea. :-)

Um, so why are ATMs still targeted? If the money inside is unusable you
would have thought that the word would have spread.

Because thieves are stupid.

Interesting point - the new plastic money may not be tainted by the dye
previously used in ATM cassettes like paper was. Thieves probably will
be though. Increasingly dyes are used so that show only up under UV.

These days a lot of stuff is protected by DNA or rare earth based smart
water that allows stolen goods to be traced back to source. Provided
that is it is found before it is smelted with lots of other stuff.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

DerbyBorn wrote

why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices
to explode an indelible dye if they are attacked?

Because if they fail and explode when they
arent being attacked, you have a problem.

Is it cost or Human Rights?

Neither.

Tim+ wrote
DerbyBorn wrote

why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to
explode an indelible dye if they are attacked?

Is it cost or Human Rights?

Good question. Simple tilt switch or other
vibration sensor should be all that's needed.

Trouble is that with a vibration sensor, someone
thumping the machine when it says that your pay
hasnt shown up in your account yet would set it off
and render the machine unusable by anyone else.

Tilt switch wouldnt help if the crim ram raids the ATM
with a stolen truck and some have tried to do that.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-10-06, Tim+ wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 06-Oct-17 6:15 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible
dye
if they are attacked?

You are about 16 years later than the industry with that idea. :-)


Um, so why are ATMs still targeted? If the money inside is unusable you
would have thought that the word would have spread.

Because thieves are stupid.

I just don’t believe that no thief ever
gets any usable money out of an ATM.

On 06-Oct-17 9:23 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 06-Oct-17 6:15 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:
why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices to explode an indelible dye
if they are attacked?

You are about 16 years later than the industry with that idea. :-)


Um, so why are ATMs still targeted? If the money inside is unusable you
would have thought that the word would have spread.

Smart water seems to be preferred to coloured dye in dye packs these
days and the crooks wouldn't be able to see that.

--
--

Colin Bignell

"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f3qkn9Fnk6hU1
@mid.individual.net:

DerbyBorn wrote

why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices
to explode an indelible dye if they are attacked?

Because if they fail and explode when they
arent being attacked, you have a problem.

Is it cost or Human Rights?

Neither.


Airbags on cars seem reliable.

"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.236...
"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f3qkn9Fnk6hU1
@mid.individual.net:

DerbyBorn wrote

why aren't ATMs routinely fitted with devices
to explode an indelible dye if they are attacked?

Because if they fail and explode when they
arent being attacked, you have a problem.

Is it cost or Human Rights?

Neither.


Airbags on cars seem reliable.

Sure, but it’s a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.

Sure, but it’s a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.



A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of the building would sense it
is being removed. It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

On 08/10/17 11:14, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sure, but its a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.



A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of the building would sense it
is being removed. It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

"We are sorry, this ATM appears to have been in an earthquake, and is no
longer available to dispense cash"

Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM, then there would be
nothing to rob!




--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM, then there would be nothing
to rob!

Why don't they simply do away with money completely, there is (almost)
no need to carry cash now.

On 08/10/17 12:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM, then there would be
nothing to rob!

Why don't they simply do away with money completely, there is (almost)
no need to carry cash now.

Until you get a powercut...



--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

Huge wrote :
Because some people do not care to have their financial transactions tracked.

Near impossible for it not to be tracked these days, besides, I have
nothing to hide.

Huge presented the following explanation :
Fine. What's the URL of the webcam in your bathroom?

I lack a webcam in the bathroom and before you ask - none in the
bedroom.

Huge has brought this to us :
But you have nothing to hide. You must install one forthwith. I'll
donate one, if you like.

Which has what to do with the matter of where and when I spend my
money?

Huge expressed precisely :
Ahh, you *are* a ******. Most people who say things like "I have nothing
to hide" usually are. Combine that with editing your responses to remove
the context and it's pretty certain.

We were discussing financial transactions, YOU diverted that to webcams
in private spaces - which have nothing what so ever to do with the
privacy of personal finances.

So who is the fool?

On 08/10/2017 14:46, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Huge expressed precisely :
Ahh, you *are* a ******. Most people who say things like "I have nothing
to hide" usually are. Combine that with editing your responses to remove
the context and it's pretty certain.

We were discussing financial transactions, YOU diverted that to webcams
in private spaces - which have nothing what so ever to do with the
privacy of personal finances.

So who is the fool?

You did say you had *nothing* to hide.

I assume your exception is your modesty.

Tim Streater submitted this idea :
Nice try. You opened it up when you said "I have nothing to hide".
Subsequent responses to that were completely on-topic.


When financial matters are the topic of discussion, it is a fair
assumption that any reply to such will be restricted to financial
matters.

DerbyBorn wrote

Sure, but it’s a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.

A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of
the building would sense it is being removed.

But doesn’t help with it being looted in situ.

It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

Yes, but that’s a lot easier said than done with an ATM when
you don’t want the damned thing going off and ruining all
the money in it when the person reloading it is a bit careless.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/10/17 11:14, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sure, but its a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.


A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of the building would sense
it
is being removed. It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

"We are sorry, this ATM appears to have been in an earthquake, and is no
longer available to dispense cash"

Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM,

Because it makes more sense to print it in
the smartphones now with the *Pay systems.

then there would be nothing to rob!

And there isnt with the best *Pay system which is unrobable.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 08/10/17 12:11, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM, then there would be
nothing to rob!

Why don't they simply do away with money completely, there is (almost) no
need to carry cash now.

Until you get a powercut...

There arent all that many places where you
can spend cash when there is a power cut.

And you dont need to use an ATM to get that cash you
keep in your wallet for that very remote possibility anyway,

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-10-08, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher has brought this to us :
Why dont they simply print the money in the ATM, then there would be
nothing
to rob!

Why don't they simply do away with money completely, there is (almost)
no need to carry cash now.

Because some people do not care to have their financial transactions
tracked.

They are anyway when they use the ATM.

The Natural Philosopher expressed precisely :
Until you get a powercut...

I fail to see the connection, in a power cut, it would be equally
difficult to even use cash. Power will usually be soon back on, until
then I can wait.

Rod Speed brought next idea :
They are anyway when they use the ATM.

Quite right and no way in the modern world to avoid it completely.
Nothing you can do to stop it, so why try to?

You could of course try to find a cash in hand employer, never use a
bank and avoid all security cams. Maybe live in a cave?

100% of my income I never see as cash, it just appears in my accounts.
More than 99% of my expenditure is made without my touching any cash.
Such has been my situation now for decades.

Harry Bloomfield wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote

Until you get a powercut...

I fail to see the connection, in a power cut,
it would be equally difficult to even use cash.

Not with garage/yard/car boot sales.

Power will usually be soon back on,

Try telling that to the Puerto Rico island that has
been told that theirs will be off for a year now.

until then I can wait.

Harry Bloomfield wrote
Rod Speed wrote

They are anyway when they use the ATM.

Quite right and no way in the modern world to avoid it completely.

Some do, most obviously with drug dealers.

Nothing you can do to stop it,

You can actually, but it's a lot of work now.

so why try to?

Yeah, I couldn't care less who knows what I spend on what.

But then I'm not a drug dealer who needs to do that.

You could of course try to find a cash in hand employer,

That's quite easy to do if you don't mind the menial work.

never use a bank and avoid all security cams.

Maybe live in a cave?

You don't have to go quite that far, just couch surf.

100% of my income I never see as cash, it just appears in my accounts.
More than 99% of my expenditure is made without my touching any cash.
Such has been my situation now for decades.

I still do the garage/yard/car boot stuff using cash even tho I can pay
anyone who has mobile phone electronically. Its just not viable to
explain how that works when tearing around buying stuff before
the slack buggers who are too lazy to get out of their beds show up.

I used to have to pay cash at the cheapest fruit and veg place that
wouldn't accept cards for transactions of less than $10 but now the
latest owners who are very likely illegal immigrants are quite happy
to be paid using my phone.

There is still one of the very low end what you lot call pound stores
that has the same stupid arrangement, but I don't use them much.

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Rod Speed brought next idea :
They are anyway when they use the ATM.

Quite right and no way in the modern world to avoid it completely.
Nothing you can do to stop it, so why try to?

You could of course try to find a cash in hand employer, never use a
bank and avoid all security cams. Maybe live in a cave?

100% of my income I never see as cash, it just appears in my accounts.
More than 99% of my expenditure is made without my touching any cash.
Such has been my situation now for decades.

:-)

I have never used an ATM and only twice drawn cash from a bank. Sadly
full retirement and paid help is bringing this to an end.

--
Tim Lamb

Rod Speed explained on 08/10/2017 :
Not with garage/yard/car boot sales.

I don't frequent those!

Power will usually be soon back on,

Try telling that to the Puerto Rico island that has
been told that theirs will be off for a year now.

This is neither Pueto Rico, nor a third world country.

Tim Lamb was thinking very hard :
I have never used an ATM and only twice drawn cash from a bank. Sadly full
retirement and paid help is bringing this to an end.

I have not seen cash in a wage packet since I suppose the early 1970's.
Then, drawing from a bank counter was the only way. When cards came
along, I made good use of those. Now cash to me is almost redundant.

"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f3v1naFo27fU1
@mid.individual.net:

DerbyBorn wrote

Sure, but it’s a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.

A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of
the building would sense it is being removed.

But doesn’t help with it being looted in situ.

It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

Yes, but that’s a lot easier said than done with an ATM when
you don’t want the damned thing going off and ruining all
the money in it when the person reloading it is a bit careless.



A person reloading it doesn't tilt the machine. Anyway - a disarming system
could be activated.

On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 20:58:52 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Lamb was thinking very hard :
I have never used an ATM and only twice drawn cash from a bank. Sadly
full retirement and paid help is bringing this to an end.

I have not seen cash in a wage packet since I suppose the early 1970's.
Then, drawing from a bank counter was the only way. When cards came
along, I made good use of those. Now cash to me is almost redundant.

I made my first ATM cash withdrawal in October 1970.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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"DerbyBorn" wrote in message
2.222...
"Rod Speed" wrote in news:f3v1naFo27fU1
@mid.individual.net:

DerbyBorn wrote

Sure, but it’s a lot easier with those given that what
happens with a collision is much more dramatic
energy wise than some little kid kicking the dash
when he has just been told that they wont be going
to KFC as he has just demanded they do.

A tilt mechanism and a link to the structure of
the building would sense it is being removed.

But doesn’t help with it being looted in situ.

It needs to become a crime that gives no reward.

Yes, but that’s a lot easier said than done with an ATM when
you don’t want the damned thing going off and ruining all
the money in it when the person reloading it is a bit careless.



A person reloading it doesn't tilt the machine.

But does belt the machine around
when ramming in the bins of money.

Anyway - a disarming system could be activated.

Sure, but easy to forget to do that too.

And the turnip's line about earthquakes is even more of
a problem. Decent earthquake and the entire city's stock
of money in all the ATMs city wide is ruined in seconds.

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:11:54 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2017-10-08, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 20:58:52 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Lamb was thinking very hard :
I have never used an ATM and only twice drawn cash from a bank. Sadly
full retirement and paid help is bringing this to an end.

I have not seen cash in a wage packet since I suppose the early
1970's.
Then, drawing from a bank counter was the only way. When cards came
along, I made good use of those. Now cash to me is almost redundant.

I made my first ATM cash withdrawal in October 1970.

1973, here. On the campus at UKC. There was a NatWest machine in the
wall of the SU building (IIRC). You stuck a small punched card in the
machine, which kept it, and it gave you a tenner. I can't remember if
you had to enter a PIN, but I assume you must have. The card came back
in the post. I noticed that the card was the same as a slice of IBM
80-column punched card, so made some for myself from those, by copying
the NatWest one and cutting the copies up with scissors. They worked,
but I got a nice letter from the NatWest requesting that if I wanted
more cards, all I had to do was ask.

Same kind I used in 1970 (in the same physical machine!)

I think they had only just started using them then.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 09:10:30 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2017-10-09, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 08:11:54 +0000, Huge wrote:

On 2017-10-08, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 08 Oct 2017 20:58:52 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim Lamb was thinking very hard :
I have never used an ATM and only twice drawn cash from a bank.
Sadly full retirement and paid help is bringing this to an end.

I have not seen cash in a wage packet since I suppose the early
1970's.
Then, drawing from a bank counter was the only way. When cards came
along, I made good use of those. Now cash to me is almost redundant.

I made my first ATM cash withdrawal in October 1970.

1973, here. On the campus at UKC. There was a NatWest machine in the
wall of the SU building (IIRC). You stuck a small punched card in the
machine, which kept it, and it gave you a tenner. I can't remember if
you had to enter a PIN, but I assume you must have. The card came back
in the post. I noticed that the card was the same as a slice of IBM
80-column punched card, so made some for myself from those, by copying
the NatWest one and cutting the copies up with scissors. They worked,
but I got a nice letter from the NatWest requesting that if I wanted
more cards, all I had to do was ask.

Same kind I used in 1970 (in the same physical machine!)

I suspected it might have been.

In fact, the presence of that machine was a factor in me choosing NatWest
for my bank.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
The Natural Philosopher expressed precisely :
Until you get a powercut...

I fail to see the connection, in a power cut, it would be equally
difficult to even use cash. Power will usually be soon back on, until
then I can wait.

But don't all you poms have to have have coins to feed the meter?