The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Adam

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:
The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

odd. generally chlorine bleach or caustic soda does te trick

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Adam

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

I have used a tungsten carbide bit intended for drilling through tiles
as a way of cleaning off the top layer of grout and then added grout
reviver for a quick cosmetic improvement of ancient mangy grout.

Any that falls out as a result of being stressed needed replacement.

It is pretty tedious but you can do a decent area focussing on
horizontals first and then the verticals. Getting the angle just right
is key. And you need a decent grade of tungsten carbide - one cheap and
nasty one left dark residues but the real McCoy will cut clean.

Needs a fairly steady hand as the tool will scratch ceramic tiles if you
slip.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:
The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?


Tissue soaked in bleach pressed against the grouted areas, then covered
in cling film. Leave for 24 hours. Anything that survives that deserves
to live.


--
Cheers, Rob

On 2017-09-28, Tjoepstil wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:
The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

odd. generally chlorine bleach or caustic soda does te trick

I haven't tried caustic soda yet, but now that you mention it, I have
some in stock, so that'll be the next thing.

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

I was going to ask if you could still buy that without jumping through
a lot of hoops, but I see that various DIY/building merchants'
websites have it.

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Rake out (at least some of) the grout and re-grout it...

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.
I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?


Carbide/diamond segment saw on a multimaster type of tool does this
easily enough.

About 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Oscillating_tools

Or something like:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade






--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thursday, 28 September 2017 09:45:06 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:
The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Adam

You're wasting your time trying to clean it unless it's fairly new. Scrape the top off & regrout.


NT

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:11:38 +0100, Tjoepstil
wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

Hydrochloric Acid (brick acid) undiluted will instantly and
irrevocably mark many kitchen work surface materials as well as
permanently marking stainless steel.

On 28/09/17 13:58, wrote:
On Thursday, 28 September 2017 09:45:06 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:
The extractor fan installed last summer is doing a great job of
removing humidity from the bathroom, so none of the grunge is getting
any worse. I'm convinced that if I could get the bath/shower grout
back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Applying thick bleach with a paintbrush, normal bleach with a sprayer,
or normal bleach with a rag, & rinsing it off later: mainly whitens
the tiles, increasing the contrast.

Baking soda or washing soda, and a scrubbing sponge: no significant
improvement.

"Bon Ami" scouring powder and a sponge: slow improvement but very
labour-intensive & hurts my wrist (tendonitis).

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Adam

You're wasting your time trying to clean it unless it's fairly new. Scrape the top off & regrout.

thats what brick acid does. turns the top layer to soluble calcium chloride.

Which can be washed off.


NT



--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

On 28/09/17 14:32, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:11:38 +0100, Tjoepstil
wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

Hydrochloric Acid (brick acid) undiluted will instantly and
irrevocably mark many kitchen work surface materials as well as
permanently marking stainless steel.

We are talking about a tiled wall dear.
Now go back to sleep.



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 28/09/17 14:32, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:11:38 +0100, Tjoepstil
wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

Hydrochloric Acid (brick acid) undiluted will instantly and
irrevocably mark many kitchen work surface materials as well as
permanently marking stainless steel.

We are talking about a tiled wall dear.
Now go back to sleep.

My tiled walls have s/s coving at the bottom, so I am very glad of the
timely warning.


--

Roger Hayter

On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:06:11 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 28/09/17 14:32, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:11:38 +0100, Tjoepstil
wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

Hydrochloric Acid (brick acid) undiluted will instantly and
irrevocably mark many kitchen work surface materials as well as
permanently marking stainless steel.

We are talking about a tiled wall dear.
Now go back to sleep.

My tiled walls have s/s coving at the bottom, so I am very glad of the
timely warning.

My bath is old enamel and the trap is chrome plated brass - HCl just loves
chromium!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 2017-09-28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 28/09/17 14:32, Peter Parry wrote:
On Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:11:38 +0100, Tjoepstil
wrote:

On 28/09/17 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

Spraying distilled vinegar & leaving it to evaporate: no significant
improvement.

try brick acid, rubber gloves and a nailbrush or scrubbing brush

Hydrochloric Acid (brick acid) undiluted will instantly and
irrevocably mark many kitchen work surface materials as well as
permanently marking stainless steel.

We are talking about a tiled wall dear.
Now go back to sleep.

Actually that's relevant information. The walls are ceramic tile with
grout, the bath is enamelled steel, but the fittings (shower-bath
mixer attached through the bath tap holes, with a flexible hose up to
a movable shower head) are chrome-plated, & there's a chrome-plated or
stainless shampoo shelf (which I could unscrew & move out temporarily)
in one corner. The plug-hole fitting may also be chrome-plated (I'll
take a close look in a bit). So I guess I need to be careful not to
let it touch any of the metal stuff, & find an alternative (more
labour-intensive) way to clean in their vicinity?

On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Rake out (at least some of) the grout and re-grout it...

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.
I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?


Carbide/diamond segment saw on a multimaster type of tool does this
easily enough.

About 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Oscillating_tools

Or something like:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade

I've already got the tool and that kind of blade (from an Aldi set).
How hard is it to rake off some grout without damaging the tile?

(I suppose I could practice on the tiled back of the cupboard under
the sink, most of which is covered by stuff stored in there.)

On 2017-09-28, Martin Brown wrote:

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

I have used a tungsten carbide bit intended for drilling through tiles
as a way of cleaning off the top layer of grout and then added grout
reviver for a quick cosmetic improvement of ancient mangy grout.

Any that falls out as a result of being stressed needed replacement.

It is pretty tedious but you can do a decent area focussing on
horizontals first and then the verticals. Getting the angle just right
is key. And you need a decent grade of tungsten carbide - one cheap and
nasty one left dark residues but the real McCoy will cut clean.

Needs a fairly steady hand as the tool will scratch ceramic tiles if you
slip.

I'm afraid I'd klutz that up! I think John Rumm's suggestion sounds
like something I could control more steadily.

On Thursday, 28 September 2017 19:30:06 UTC+1, Adam Funk wrote:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade

I've already got the tool and that kind of blade (from an Aldi set).
How hard is it to rake off some grout without damaging the tile?

(I suppose I could practice on the tiled back of the cupboard under
the sink, most of which is covered by stuff stored in there.)

easy & fairly quick with a hand grout rake. Power tools are much more able to damage tiles, which slows down their use.


NT

Adam Funk wrote:

On 2017-09-28, Martin Brown wrote:

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

I have used a tungsten carbide bit intended for drilling through tiles
as a way of cleaning off the top layer of grout and then added grout
reviver for a quick cosmetic improvement of ancient mangy grout.

Any that falls out as a result of being stressed needed replacement.

It is pretty tedious but you can do a decent area focussing on
horizontals first and then the verticals. Getting the angle just right
is key. And you need a decent grade of tungsten carbide - one cheap and
nasty one left dark residues but the real McCoy will cut clean.

Needs a fairly steady hand as the tool will scratch ceramic tiles if you
slip.

I'm afraid I'd klutz that up! I think John Rumm's suggestion sounds
like something I could control more steadily.

I'm born clumsy, but I've managed to do it with minimal scratches on the
tile faces although the tool was an interference fit in some of the
grout lines. So it can be done, but you have to take it slowly and an
oscillating tool with variable speed is essential. Slow rather than
difficult. The grout is much softer than my (porcelain) tiles.

--

Roger Hayter

On 28/09/2017 19:25, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

back to a white state, I could keep it that way without much work.
But getting it back to white is the problem.

Rake out (at least some of) the grout and re-grout it...

I tested several attachments for my rotary tool (Dremel knock-off) on
a spare piece of tile. The ones that didn't scratch the tile also
wouldn't do anything to the grout.
I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?


Carbide/diamond segment saw on a multimaster type of tool does this
easily enough.

About 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Oscillating_tools

Or something like:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade

I've already got the tool and that kind of blade (from an Aldi set).
How hard is it to rake off some grout without damaging the tile?

As long as the blade is narrower than the gap between the tiles, then
there is no real problem IME. Keep the blade perpendicular to the tile,
and don't apply to much force.

Unlike a manual rake, if you do cut into the edge of a tile, it will be
left polished smooth rather than scratched (much as a rotary diamond
tile saw leave nice polished edges)

(I suppose I could practice on the tiled back of the cupboard under
the sink, most of which is covered by stuff stored in there.)

Indeed, get the practice done on the bits that don't show ;-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/09/2017 19:25, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/09/2017 09:33, Adam Funk wrote:

I'm willing to skim the top layer of grout off and replace it --- is
there a not too difficult way to do that? Any other suggestions?

Carbide/diamond segment saw on a multimaster type of tool does this
easily enough.

About 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Oscillating_tools

Or something like:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade

I've already got the tool and that kind of blade (from an Aldi set).
How hard is it to rake off some grout without damaging the tile?

As long as the blade is narrower than the gap between the tiles, then
there is no real problem IME. Keep the blade perpendicular to the tile,
and don't apply to much force.

Unlike a manual rake, if you do cut into the edge of a tile, it will be
left polished smooth rather than scratched (much as a rotary diamond
tile saw leave nice polished edges)

OK, you've convinced me to try it.

(I suppose I could practice on the tiled back of the cupboard under
the sink, most of which is covered by stuff stored in there.)

Indeed, get the practice done on the bits that don't show ;-)

That's good advice for almost any DIY.

On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/09/2017 19:25, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2017-09-28, John Rumm wrote:

Carbide/diamond segment saw on a multimaster type of tool does this
easily enough.

About 3/4 of the way down this page:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Oscillating_tools

Or something like:

https://www.saxtonblades.co.uk/fein-...d-sickle-blade

I've already got the tool and that kind of blade (from an Aldi set).
How hard is it to rake off some grout without damaging the tile?

As long as the blade is narrower than the gap between the tiles, then
there is no real problem IME. Keep the blade perpendicular to the tile,
and don't apply to much force.

Unlike a manual rake, if you do cut into the edge of a tile, it will be
left polished smooth rather than scratched (much as a rotary diamond
tile saw leave nice polished edges)

Thanks for the advice. I'm seeing progress, but it's slow work
because too much DIY with wrist action (not for fnarring) can make
tendonitis flare up, but faster than doing it all without power
(although I did get a little grout rake for some spots).

One good thing I noticed is that if I slip out of place a little, the
combination of tool & blade I'm using won't scratch the tile surface
if I'm not applying much pressure.