The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks a
bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from the bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient and
doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it on
the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any difference
when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the new position
would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were better for the fan
to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking panel over the vent and
cut a new hole for the extractor on the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

On 8/20/2017 9:37 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks a
bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from theÂ* bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient and
doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it on
the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any difference
when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the new position
Â*would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were better for the fan
to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking panel over the vent and
cut a new hole for the extractor on the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Not really enough information. When you say an apartment, do you mean
what we (this being a UK group) would call a flat? Does this same column
go through the flats above and below you? Pressurising it by adding your
own fan will just force your damp air out into other flats. You say it
goes up to the roof, but does it go out through the roof to a proper
vent with a cowl, or is it actually just a services duct?

If it does have a proper cowl in the roof, then the right solution might
be to fit a fan just below it, so that everyone's bathroom is
ventilated. Ideally fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.

On Sunday, 20 August 2017 21:55:04 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 8/20/2017 9:37 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks a
bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from theÂ* bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient and
doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it on
the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any difference
when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the new position
Â*would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were better for the fan
to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking panel over the vent and
cut a new hole for the extractor on the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Not really enough information. When you say an apartment, do you mean
what we (this being a UK group) would call a flat? Does this same column
go through the flats above and below you? Pressurising it by adding your
own fan will just force your damp air out into other flats. You say it
goes up to the roof, but does it go out through the roof to a proper
vent with a cowl, or is it actually just a services duct?

If it does have a proper cowl in the roof, then the right solution might
be to fit a fan just below it, so that everyone's bathroom is
ventilated. Ideally fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.

A dehumidifer would avoid such complications


NT

On 20/08/2017 21:37, Nick Odell wrote:
Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

My first thought is that I hope a fire never breaks out anywhere in that
apartment block.

The duct running from basement to roof with a grill into every bathroom
would act as a very effective chimney to spread flames and smoke through
the whole building.

--
Mike Clarke

On 20/08/17 21:54, newshound wrote:
On 8/20/2017 9:37 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks
a bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from the bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient
and doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of
the vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air
to be sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when
the extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it
on the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any
difference when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the
new position would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were
better for the fan to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking
panel over the vent and cut a new hole for the extractor on the
opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from
forcing damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but
I want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Not really enough information. When you say an apartment, do you mean
what we (this being a UK group) would call a flat? Does this same column
go through the flats above and below you? Pressurising it by adding your
own fan will just force your damp air out into other flats. You say it
goes up to the roof, but does it go out through the roof to a proper
vent with a cowl, or is it actually just a services duct?

If it does have a proper cowl in the roof, then the right solution might
be to fit a fan just below it, so that everyone's bathroom is
ventilated. Ideally fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.

Apologies for EstateAgentSpeak: yes, I mean a flat. The flat below has
the same layout and a vent in the same duct; the flat above is modeled
differently and the duct passes through the living room without any
opening but I couldn't say what happens in the top floor nor see the end
of the vent on the roof because of the physical layout and access/lack
of access up there.

After what you said about pressurising, it's crossed my mind that the
reason this has become more of a problem more recently might be because
someone else has already installed a fan somewhere else. In which case I
suppose we might be in a nuclear arms race to see which apartment -
sorry, flat - has the biggest, suckiest extractor.

Nick

On 20/08/17 23:38, wrote:
On Sunday, 20 August 2017 21:55:04 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 8/20/2017 9:37 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks a
bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from the bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient and
doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it on
the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any difference
when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the new position
would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were better for the fan
to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking panel over the vent and
cut a new hole for the extractor on the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Not really enough information. When you say an apartment, do you mean
what we (this being a UK group) would call a flat? Does this same column
go through the flats above and below you? Pressurising it by adding your
own fan will just force your damp air out into other flats. You say it
goes up to the roof, but does it go out through the roof to a proper
vent with a cowl, or is it actually just a services duct?

If it does have a proper cowl in the roof, then the right solution might
be to fit a fan just below it, so that everyone's bathroom is
ventilated. Ideally fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.

A dehumidifer would avoid such complications



That's something I hadn't thought of and is worth looking into. Thanks.

Nick

On 21/08/17 10:02, Mike Clarke wrote:
On 20/08/2017 21:37, Nick Odell wrote:
Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from
forcing damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but
I want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

My first thought is that I hope a fire never breaks out anywhere in that
apartment block.

The duct running from basement to roof with a grill into every bathroom
would act as a very effective chimney to spread flames and smoke through
the whole building.

Well, I did say that building regulations, as we know them, are
non-existent. I know an "architect"[1] over there so I'll ask them.

Nick
[1]In inverted commas because "architect" doesn't mean quite the same
over there as it does over here.

On Monday, 21 August 2017 10:02:46 UTC+1, Mike Clarke wrote:
The duct running from basement to roof with a grill into every bathroom
would act as a very effective chimney to spread flames and smoke through
the whole building.

Simple enough to have a fire valve in the wall duct to each fan.

Owain

On 20/08/2017 21:37, Nick Odell wrote:

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Do you really need the ventilation panel in the door?

On 8/21/2017 10:14 AM, Nick Odell wrote:
On 20/08/17 21:54, newshound wrote:
On 8/20/2017 9:37 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which
looks a bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from theÂ* bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient
and doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of
the vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air
to be sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when
the extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it
on the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any
difference when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in
the new positionÂ*Â* would obstruct it when the door is open. If it
were better for the fan to face the bath I could easily fit a
blanking panel over the vent and cut a new hole for the extractor on
the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from
forcing damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this
is all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things
but I want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick

Not really enough information. When you say an apartment, do you mean
what we (this being a UK group) would call a flat? Does this same
column go through the flats above and below you? Pressurising it by
adding your own fan will just force your damp air out into other
flats. You say it goes up to the roof, but does it go out through the
roof to a proper vent with a cowl, or is it actually just a services
duct?

If it does have a proper cowl in the roof, then the right solution
might be to fit a fan just below it, so that everyone's bathroom is
ventilated. Ideally fitted by someone who knows what they are doing.

Apologies for EstateAgentSpeak: yes, I mean a flat. The flat below has
the same layout and a vent in the same duct; the flat above is modeled
differently and the duct passes through the living room without any
opening but I couldn't say what happens in the top floor nor see the end
of the vent on the roof because of the physical layout and access/lack
of access up there.

After what you said about pressurising, it's crossed my mind that the
reason this has become more of a problem more recently might be because
someone else has already installed a fan somewhere else. In which case I
suppose we might be in a nuclear arms race to see which apartment -
sorry, flat - has the biggest, suckiest extractor.

Nick

Yes, quite possibly.

Without knowing more about the scale or ownership details it is
difficult to advise further. If there is just one occupier above and one
below, you might be able to talk to them, but not if it is Grenfell
scale. Is there a building owner? Maybe they could be persuaded with
money to fit a fan at roof level. Talking to an architect is a good idea.

On 8/21/2017 1:39 PM, GB wrote:
On 20/08/2017 21:37, Nick Odell wrote:

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Do you really need the ventilation panel in the door?



It is good practice to know where the replacement air is coming from.

On 21/08/2017 15:42, newshound wrote:
On 8/21/2017 1:39 PM, GB wrote:
On 20/08/2017 21:37, Nick Odell wrote:

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Do you really need the ventilation panel in the door?



It is good practice to know where the replacement air is coming from.

Round the edge of the door? Underneath? Most bathroom doors are not
airtight in the first place.

On 21/08/2017 13:17, wrote:
Simple enough to have a fire valve in the wall duct to each fan.

Assuming the walls of the duct are sufficiently fire resistant.

--
Mike Clarke

In article ,
Nick Odell writes:
The scenario: a 1960s apartment with a windowless bathroom which looks a
bit like this

http://www.iklimnet.com/hotel_design...oom_plan_6.jpg

Not shown on this stock plan is a hollow column which is on the wall
behind the door hinge and goes from floor to ceiling and continues up
and down from basement to roof carrying services between the floors.
There is a ventilation grille in this column on the side which faces
away from the bath and the opening door. There has never been an
extractor fan in this bathroom and frankly the vent is insufficient and
doesn't do very much to clear steam or prevent condensation.

My intention is to fit an extractor fan into the column in place of the
vent and to insert a ventilation panel into the door to allow air to be
sucked into the bathroom from elsewhere in the apartment when the
extractor fan is working.

Any obvious pitfalls?

It's been suggested that installing the fan on the side of the column
facing away from the bath would be less efficient than installing it on
the side facing the bath. I'm not convinced it would make any difference
when the bathroom door is closed but putting the fan in the new position
would obstruct it when the door is open. If it were better for the fan
to face the bath I could easily fit a blanking panel over the vent and
cut a new hole for the extractor on the opposite side.

Clearly the column is intended to ventilate this and everybody else's
bathrooms but are there likely to be any problems resulting from forcing
damp air out in this way?

For the avoidance of doubt no building regulations apply since this is
all taking place in a country which has never heard of the things but I
want to do a good, safe and efficient installation in any case.

Any thoughts?

These ducts through apartments usually have a variable speed
fan at the top to maintain negative pressure in the duct (or
sometimes a bank with several fans which get progressively
switched in as necessary to maintain negative pressure).
Thus they automatically adjust to the amount of air entering
the duct, and this ensures exhaust air from one apartment is
not entering another apartment.

My first thought would be that the roof fan has failed and
needs maintenance.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]