NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
news
NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.

I bet almost all of them didn’t have a clue about what
you were intending to do and you actually confused them
more than you would have done if you hadn't done that.

In article , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes
NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.


Who remembers ignition keys on the correct side (still is on LR
Defender) and indicator storks on the right?
--
bert

On 28/07/2017 21:24, bert wrote:
In article , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes
NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.


Who remembers ignition keys on the correct side (still is on LR
Defender) and indicator storks on the right?

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted the
problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've driven a
car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of thought when
you're not used to it doesn't it?

SteveW

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 28/07/2017 21:24, bert wrote:
In article , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes
NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.


Who remembers ignition keys on the correct side (still is on LR Defender)
and indicator storks on the right?

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted the
problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've driven a
car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of thought when
you're not used to it doesn't it?

I find it very handy because I am right handed like most people
and that hand is the easiest to use to move the stalk with a finger
of the hand that is holding the steering wheel when turning.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
First time I've driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes
a bit of thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

I find it very handy because I am right handed like most people
and that hand is the easiest to use to move the stalk with a finger
of the hand that is holding the steering wheel when turning.


I've not thought of it in terms of handedness. Having the indicator stalk on
the right does mean that in a RHD car, you can change gear and indicate at
the same time.

I'm not sure whether I hold the steering wheel with my dominant hand (right)
more than the other hand (left). Mostly I use both hands, apart from when
changing gear: that is the main reason for holding it less with my left
hand, not because I'm right-handed. Steering isn't one of those
high-precision actions like writing that I can only do with one hand. i
think I'm probably more ambidextrous than some people, in that I can pour
from a kettle, stir a cake in the mixing bowl and cut with scissors with
either hand equally easily. But I definitely can't write with my left hand!
(*).

When I drove a LHD car in the States, it confused the hell out me that the
indicator stalk was on the LHS, as for most modern RHD cars. Subconsciously
I'd expected it to be one of those things that was reversed between LHD and
RHD cars - don't know why.

I wonder whether the fact that the majority of cars made are LHD and that
having the indicator on the left was the main reason for RHD cars adopting
the opposite convention to previously - so that you *didn't* have to adjust
between driving LHD and RHD cars. It also means that they only have to make
and stock one steering column shroud rather than two mirror-image mouldings.


(*) I've heard it said that, on average, right-handed people are more
ambidextrous for low precision actions that left-handed people are, and that
left-handers can only do a lot of actions, even low-precision ones, with the
left hand. My mum may be the exception: she's left-handed but she can use a
knife and fork the conventional way round (ie fork in left and knife in
right) and also uses a mouse in her right hand and with the buttons the
normal way round. I can use a mouse in either hand, as long as the buttons
haven't been swapped over.

On Sat, 29 Jul 2017 15:45:14 +0100, "NY" wrote:

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
First time I've driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes
a bit of thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

I find it very handy because I am right handed like most people
and that hand is the easiest to use to move the stalk with a finger
of the hand that is holding the steering wheel when turning.


I've not thought of it in terms of handedness. Having the indicator stalk on
the right does mean that in a RHD car, you can change gear and indicate at
the same time.

Yes. Except UK cars are no longer built this way.

I'm not sure whether I hold the steering wheel with my dominant hand (right)
more than the other hand (left). Mostly I use both hands, apart from when
changing gear: that is the main reason for holding it less with my left
hand, not because I'm right-handed. Steering isn't one of those
high-precision actions like writing that I can only do with one hand. i
think I'm probably more ambidextrous than some people, in that I can pour
from a kettle, stir a cake in the mixing bowl and cut with scissors with
either hand equally easily. But I definitely can't write with my left hand!
(*).

When I drove a LHD car in the States, it confused the hell out me that the
indicator stalk was on the LHS, as for most modern RHD cars. Subconsciously
I'd expected it to be one of those things that was reversed between LHD and
RHD cars - don't know why.

Indicators are on the left, even in the UK, because cars are designed
for LHD and they don't change the layout here.

I wonder whether the fact that the majority of cars made are LHD and that
having the indicator on the left was the main reason for RHD cars adopting
the opposite convention to previously - so that you *didn't* have to adjust
between driving LHD and RHD cars. It also means that they only have to make
and stock one steering column shroud rather than two mirror-image mouldings.

Yes.

NY wrote
Rod Speed wrote

First time I've driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right.
Takes a bit of thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

I find it very handy because I am right handed like most people
and that hand is the easiest to use to move the stalk with a finger
of the hand that is holding the steering wheel when turning.

And I see now that I didnt say that clearly enough. I meant that
particularly with roundabouts where you can need to initially
indicate right and then indicate left very soon after, that with
the stalk on the right, you can just stick a finger on your right
hand out as you are actually starting to turn left and hook the
stalk as you turn the wheel with your right hand to change
which direction you are indicating or to cancel the indicator.

I've not thought of it in terms of handedness. Having the indicator stalk
on the right does mean that in a RHD car, you can change gear and indicate
at the same time.

Yes, tho I spose you can argue you should be indicating
before you change gears. Just gave one of the neighbours
kids a lift the other day and he commented that I indicate
quite late coming up to an intersection like his brother
does. He's right, most indicate much earlier than I do.

I'm not sure whether I hold the steering wheel with my dominant hand
(right) more than the other hand (left).

I know I do, quite often dont bother to use both hands,
particularly around town when I am changing down to
2nd at most intersections, manual gearbox.

Mostly I use both hands, apart from when changing gear: that is the main
reason for holding it less with my left hand, not because I'm
right-handed. Steering isn't one of those high-precision actions like
writing that I can only do with one hand. i think I'm probably more
ambidextrous than some people, in that I can pour from a kettle, stir a
cake in the mixing bowl

Yeah, me too.

and cut with scissors with either hand equally easily.

I dont do that so much, most because
the scissors are sort of handed.

But I definitely can't write with my left hand! (*).

Yeah, I'm completely hopeless at that.

The schools used to claim I'm completely hopeless
at writing with my right hand too, no one could ever
read it. I only print now and still no one can read it.

When I drove a LHD car in the States, it confused the hell out me that the
indicator stalk was on the LHS, as for most modern RHD cars.

I found it a bit of a nuisance when first changing from the 73 Golf
to the Hyundai Getz with the indicator stalk on different sides.

Subconsciously I'd expected it to be one of those things that was reversed
between LHD and RHD cars - don't know why.

Presumably you expected that because the manual gearbox moves,
even tho they mostly have automatics and column shifts with manuals.

I wonder whether the fact that the majority of cars made are LHD and that
having the indicator on the left was the main reason for RHD cars adopting
the opposite convention to previously - so that you *didn't* have to
adjust between driving LHD and RHD cars. It also means that they only have
to make and stock one steering column shroud rather than two mirror-image
mouldings.

Doesnt explain the Hyundais. Dunno what they do with their LHD versions
tho.

(*) I've heard it said that, on average, right-handed people are more
ambidextrous for low precision actions that left-handed people are,

Dunno, my dad was left handed and is from the era when
left handed kids were monstered into doing everything with
their right hands and is much more ambidextrous than me.

and that left-handers can only do a lot of actions, even low-precision
ones, with the left hand.

That wasnt true of my dad.

My mum may be the exception: she's left-handed but she can use a knife and
fork the conventional way round (ie fork in left and knife in right) and
also uses a mouse in her right hand and with the buttons the normal way
round. I can use a mouse in either hand, as long as the buttons haven't
been swapped over.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message news

On 28/07/2017 21:24, bert wrote:
In article , Mr Pounder Esquire
writes
NY wrote:
"tim..." wrote in message
news

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:38:37 +0100, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Graeme wrote:
In message , tim...
writes
"Andy Burns" wrote in message news:etjfnhF2

You never dialled by tapping the hook switch?

never double declutched

Never used a column change Never dipped headlights with a foot
switch Never used a starting handle Never seen a car battery
wired +ve earth Never seen separate door and ignition keys Never
suffered vacuum wipers

Has anyone mentioned choke lever yet? Quarter lights?

Those wind deflectors you fitted to the front of the driver's
window, too.

and "flap flap" indicators

Yes, mum's Moggie had those, but someone (not sure whether it was dad
or a previous owner) had had proper flashing indicators fitted.

And talk of those semaphore indicators reminds me of hand signals.
Who uses hand signals these days? The only time I use them is if I am
turning back on myself on a mini roundabout - I give a right hand
signal to supplement the right indicator to say to drivers who are
waiting on the side roads "I'm going all the way round, not just
turning through +90 degrees as you might expect".

Yes.
I have done this to avoid confusing other drivers.


Who remembers ignition keys on the correct side (still is on LR Defender)
and indicator storks on the right?

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted the
problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've driven a car
with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of thought when you're
not used to it doesn't it?


Yeah. Flashing the screenwash for the benefit of other drivers feels
embarrassing.

On 29/07/2017 06:56, Richard wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message news

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted
the problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've
driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of
thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?


Yeah. Flashing the screenwash for the benefit of other drivers feels
embarrassing.

I found that operating my windscreen washer wasn't anything like as good
to warn the idiot backing into me as a horn would have been.

--
Max Demian

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...

On 29/07/2017 06:56, Richard wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message news

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted the
problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've driven a
car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of thought when
you're not used to it doesn't it?


Yeah. Flashing the screenwash for the benefit of other drivers feels
embarrassing.

I found that operating my windscreen washer wasn't anything like as good to
warn the idiot backing into me as a horn would have been.

I bet you increased the flash rate before realising the futility. I owned a
couple of Renaults which had the horn on the stalk.

On Saturday, 29 July 2017 11:51:50 UTC+1, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/07/2017 06:56, Richard wrote:

Yeah. Flashing the screenwash for the benefit of other drivers feels
embarrassing.

I found that operating my windscreen washer wasn't anything like as good
to warn the idiot backing into me as a horn would have been.

On some old cars the washer could hit the car behind, and was used to tell people to back off.


NT

In article , Max
Demian writes
On 29/07/2017 06:56, Richard wrote:
"Steve Walker" wrote in message news

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was
away, because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I
sorted the problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time
I've driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit
of thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

Yeah. Flashing the screenwash for the benefit of other drivers feels
embarrassing.

I found that operating my windscreen washer wasn't anything like as
good to warn the idiot backing into me as a horn would have been.

Horns seem to have been returned to the centre of the steering wheel.
--
bert

On 29/07/2017 10:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted
the problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've
driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of
thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

It's actually the correct place for it - i.e., next to the door, so you
can indicate while changing gear (in a manual car, anyway).

Yup I have always preferred it that side (even in my current car which
is an auto)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 29/07/2017 10:12, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Steve Walker
wrote:

I had a call from my mother some months ago, while my father was away,
because she had a warning light on on her car - a Hyundai. I sorted
the problem out and then took it for a test drive. First time I've
driven a car with the indicator stalk on the right. Takes a bit of
thought when you're not used to it doesn't it?

It's actually the correct place for it - i.e., next to the door, so you
can indicate while changing gear (in a manual car, anyway).

Yup I have always preferred it that side (even in my current car which is
an auto)

When I got my first car which had its indicator on the LHS, I thought I'd
have the problem of not being able to indicate while changing gear. But now
I don't notice it. Maybe I've found that subconsciously I plan to start
indicating before I change gear or in between gear changes when previously
I'd have done the two actions simultaneously.

I think Ford changed several years before many other cars. A friend's dad's
Ford Escort had the indicator on the left while my dad's Hillman Hunter,
various BL cars and also my mum's Renault 6 (*) still had the indicator on
the right. I'm not sure when the change occurred. I *think* my first car, a
W-suffix 1980 Renault 5 (Mark 1), had the indicator on the right (certainly
it had the ignition key on the left) and my second B-prefix Renault 5 (Mark
2) had it on the left and the ignition key on the right. So maybe the change
occurred in the early 80s - my impression was that all manufacturers made
the change within a year of each other.

(*) Interesting that even cars made in a country that was itself LHD
modified the design for RHD cars.