I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in front
of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an exposed
bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I shouldn't put it
on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress and wiring closed off
inside the case with a small timber box? It would mean losing about an inch
of shelf space but would be far neater than hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

Bert Coules wrote:
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an
exposed bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I
shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress
and wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber box? It would
mean losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater than
hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.
Well it is not normal but why not?. Swap the switch plate for a blank
one with a cable outlet including some sort of cable grip, use some
FLEXIBLE sheathed cable to the new switch box location with a gland and
cable clamp into the box.

Bob, thanks for that.

...use some FLEXIBLE sheathed cable to the
new switch box location...

Given that the wiring will be totally enclosed (allowing for enough slack to
permit the bookcase to be moved slightly if it were ever necessary) couldn't
standard non-flexible cable be used?

Bert Coules wrote:
Bob, thanks for that.

...use some FLEXIBLE sheathed cable to the
new switch box location...

Given that the wiring will be totally enclosed (allowing for enough
slack to permit the bookcase to be moved slightly if it were ever
necessary) couldn't standard non-flexible cable be used?


No, because your bookcase will move by however a small amount and the
solid core cable will eventually fracture.

Bob,

OK, that makes sense. Many thanks.

In message , Bert
Coules writes

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch:

Bert, I cannot answer your question, and cannot recall the exact details
of your predicament, but have dealt with something similar recently,
although mine was in a hobby room, where looks are less important.

Like you, the perfect place for a large shelving unit meant the unit
just covered a light switch, and left little wall space between the unit
and a doorway. I solved the problem by covering the existing switch box
with a blank plate, and used an architrave switch, which is an ordinary
switch, but half the width. I was lucky - the wall is plasterboard on
studs, and the cable was long enough to reach the new position, which
was only a couple of inches from the old switch. Looks quite tidy, and
solved the problem perfectly.

--
Graeme

On Friday, 23 June 2017 11:38:22 UTC+1, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in front
of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an exposed
bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I shouldn't put it
on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress and wiring closed off
inside the case with a small timber box? It would mean losing about an inch
of shelf space but would be far neater than hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

OK if you fix the bookcase to the wall. If you don't want to I suppose you could put the switch lead on flex & some sort of plug, plus add cordgrip at the switch end.


NT

On 23/06/2017 11:38, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an
exposed bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I
shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress
and wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber box? It would
mean losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater than
hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

Is the switch on an external wall? If not would having the switch on the
other side of the wall, perhaps in a hall be pratical?


--
Michael Chare

---
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In article ,
Bert Coules wrote:
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an
exposed bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I
shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress
and wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber box? It
would mean losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater
than hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

If the bookcase is fixed to the wall etc, fine. If it can be moved, the
best way IMHO would to fit a suitable socket in place of the wall switch
and run a plug and cable to the new switch position. So if the bookcase is
moved, the plug will just pull out.

--
*A bicycle can't stand alone because it's two tyred.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Bob,

What would be the best way to join the flexible cable to the original solid
core in order to extend it? If I run solid throughout I could use Wago
connectors but they're not suitable, surely. Chocolate block? But is even
that ideal for joining different types of cable?

Many thanks.

Thanks Michael and Dave for your suggestions. In this instance, the other
side of the wall isn't practical and the situation is also not ideal for an
architrave switch unfortunately.

Dave Plowman wrote:

If the bookcase is fixed to the wall etc, fine. If it can be moved, the
best way IMHO would to fit a suitable socket in place of the wall switch
and run a plug and cable to the new switch position. So if the bookcase is
moved, the plug will just pull out.

The bookcase will be permanently (or as near permanently as makes no
difference) fixed to the wall. Even so, I like the plug and socket idea but
I'm afraid there won't be sufficient clearance for it. It would have
answered my other question, which is how to join flexible cable to solid
core (assuming that I do use flexible for the extended run to the new switch
position).

Graeme,

Thanks for your suggestion (for which I've also just erroneously thanked
Dave: apologies to you both).

Unfortunately, an architrave switch isn't really practical in this instance.

On 23/06/2017 15:34, Bert Coules wrote:
Bob,

What would be the best way to join the flexible cable to the original
solid core in order to extend it? If I run solid throughout I could use
Wago connectors but they're not suitable, surely. Chocolate block? But
is even that ideal for joining different types of cable?

The lever operated wago connectors can be used on solid and stranded.
You could also crimp, or arguably use a screw terminal since it remains
accessible by virtue of moving the bookcase.

(not convinced that the movement of a solid bookcase would be any
greater than say that generated by thermal cycling on a reasonably
heavily loaded circuit. Also while not "ideal" its not uncommon to see
hard wired sockets etc inside wooden kitchen furniture)


Many thanks.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On 23/06/2017 15:39, Bert Coules wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

If the bookcase is fixed to the wall etc, fine. If it can be moved, the
best way IMHO would to fit a suitable socket in place of the wall switch
and run a plug and cable to the new switch position. So if the
bookcase is
moved, the plug will just pull out.

The bookcase will be permanently (or as near permanently as makes no
difference) fixed to the wall. Even so, I like the plug and socket idea
but I'm afraid there won't be sufficient clearance for it. It would
have answered my other question, which is how to join flexible cable to
solid core (assuming that I do use flexible for the extended run to the
new switch position).


If you want a plug and socket solution, one that could work is a
variation on the way I normally wire under cabinet lights in a kitchen -
typically placing s remotely switched 2A or 5A 3 (round) pin socket high
up on the wall above the top line of the cabinet, so the wiring can be
tested an finished before the cabinets are installed. The cabinet lights
then just connect via flying lead and a plug.

You could adapt the process for your switching application. Replace the
existing switch with a socket:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BG828.html

Then a flying lead that plugs into that socket connects to the real
switch mounted on your cabinet. If you ever need to move the cabinet
then its switch can just be unplugged.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 15:34:41 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

Bob,

What would be the best way to join the flexible cable to the original
solid core in order to extend it? If I run solid throughout I could use
Wago connectors but they're not suitable, surely. Chocolate block? But
is even that ideal for joining different types of cable?

This is designed for the job.

https://goo.gl/ytKrFJ

--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:

This is designed for the job.

Thanks for that.

John,

(not convinced that the movement of a solid bookcase would be any greater
than say that generated by thermal cycling on a reasonably heavily loaded
circuit.

Thanks for that; I've been thinking along the same lines. I rather fancy
that a solid-core/stranded cable connection might well be more potentially
problematical than a continuous run of solid-core. After the initial
installation I can't see that there will be any movement to speak of.

Are you suggesting just making a hole in the bookcase, if not then one would
need to be damned sure it was firmly secured to the wall and a warning label
put somewhere obvious for any future occupant I'd imagine!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bert Coules" wrote in message
o.uk...
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an
exposed bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I
shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress and
wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber box? It would mean
losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater than hacking a
new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

Brian Gaff wrote:

...one would need to be damned sure it was firmly
secured to the wall and a warning label put
somewhere obvious for any future occupant I'd imagine!

Firmly secured it will be. A warning notice strikes me as overkill but it
could certainly be done. Thanks.

John,

A socket above the bookcase would certainly be possible though channeling
the cable for it into the wall would be a pretty unfortunate disruption.

I'm inclined to go with a straightforward extension of the solid-core cables
from the original switch position to the new one, with the run boxed in (and
perhaps a notice of what's been done, as suggested by Brian). The bookcase
will be a permanent fixture, almost an extension of the wall itself.

"Bert Coules" wrote in message
o.uk...
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in front of an
existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an exposed bit of wall but is
there any regulation-based reason why I shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase
itself, with the pattress and wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber
box? It would mean losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater than
hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

There are bookcases and then, I suppose, there are bookcases.
I had this once with a run of Ikea style Billy bookcases.
For both a light switch and for a switched double socket
lower down. Maybe not something you could do with a priceless
antique, or something of her mothers, but as the shelves
were adjustable and so presented no problem access wise it
was simply a case of cutting the requisite size holes in the
back.
Two frames were then made, ISTR 4mm ply top and bottom,
6 x 1 pine at the sides, wide enough to allow acess to
both switch and sockets. The sockets required an adaptor
as there wasn't sufficient clearance for plug leads otherwise.
The sides of these frames were disguised by pasting book
jackets onto them and they were screwed in place with IIRR
just the one screw at the bottom into the shelf.

michael adams

....

On 23/06/2017 11:38, Bert Coules wrote:
I'm grateful for all the advice in my previous light switch thread.

Another question has arisen: I'm positioning a large fixed bookcase in
front of an existing light switch: I was going to move the switch to an
exposed bit of wall but is there any regulation-based reason why I
shouldn't put it on the end of the bookcase itself, with the pattress
and wiring closed off inside the case with a small timber box? It would
mean losing about an inch of shelf space but would be far neater than
hacking a new hole in the wall.

Many thanks.

I have one suggestion. Although I don't know if this is what you had in
mind.

Swap the existing lightswitch for a flex outlet plate[1], do whatever
connections you want/need to being the flex outlet plate and run a flex
to your new switch that is on a plastic patress. Box the plastic patress
in if you want to.

[1] eg
http://www.screwfix.com/p/british-ge...te-white/21114

--
Adam

ARW wrote:

Swap the existing lightswitch for a flex outlet plate...

Unfortunately there isn't enough clearance behind the bookcase (10mm
maximum). My latest thought is to use chocolate blocks inside the existing
back box to extend the solid-core cabling with flexible. I can either
bring the flex out through a hole drilled in a blanking plate or perhaps
even (since the bookcase will fit flush to the wall and prevent any access)
leave the box open.

One more question, if I might. There are three cables to extend: two go to
the common socket of the light switch, the third to one of the live sockets.
Can I join the two common wires together at the chocolate block and run just
a single flex from there to the switch? The length of flex would be
approximately eight inches.

Many thanks.

Bert Coules wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

This is designed for the job.

Thanks for that.

You can get a similar item without the fuse. This makes no great
difference electrically, but is less confusing and possibly cheaper.


--

Roger Hayter

On 23/06/2017 17:16, Bert Coules wrote:
John,

A socket above the bookcase would certainly be possible though
channeling the cable for it into the wall would be a pretty unfortunate
disruption.

Is there space to put the socket where the light switch currently is?

(its really a a case of can you accept the protrusion of the small plug
behind the bookcase / boxing)

I'm inclined to go with a straightforward extension of the solid-core
cables from the original switch position to the new one, with the run
boxed in (and perhaps a notice of what's been done, as suggested by
Brian). The bookcase will be a permanent fixture, almost an extension
of the wall itself.




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/06/2017 19:16, Bert Coules wrote:
ARW wrote:

Swap the existing lightswitch for a flex outlet plate...

Unfortunately there isn't enough clearance behind the bookcase (10mm
maximum). My latest thought is to use chocolate blocks inside the
existing back box to extend the solid-core cabling with flexible. I
can either bring the flex out through a hole drilled in a blanking plate
or perhaps even (since the bookcase will fit flush to the wall and
prevent any access) leave the box open.

One more question, if I might. There are three cables to extend: two go
to the common socket of the light switch, the third to one of the live
sockets. Can I join the two common wires together at the chocolate block
and run just a single flex from there to the switch? The length of flex
would be approximately eight inches.

When you say "cables" do you mean wires? and for "sockets" do you mean
terminals?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Roger Hayter wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

This is designed for the job.

Thanks for that.

You can get a similar item without the fuse. This makes no great
difference electrically, but is less confusing and possibly cheaper.
^^^^^^^^^
less confusing to someone seeing it in the future, I mean, especially if
the fuse ends up in the switched live side.


--

Roger Hayter

John Rumm wrote:

When you say "cables" do you mean wires? and for "sockets" do you mean
terminals?

I do. Can I join the two common solid-core cables together in the back box
and run a single flexible cable the short distance from there to the common
terminal on the switch?

Roger, thanks for that. Unfortunately, the clearance at the back of the
bookcase is 10mm: not deep enough for a flex outlet.

John Rumm wrote:

Is there space to put the socket where the light switch currently is?

There is, but the clearance at the back of the bookcase is just deep enough
for that and nothing more.

It would certainly be possible to cut a hole in the back of the case to
permit a plug to be fitted, but I'd prefer not to if there's an alternative
method.

On 23/06/2017 20:02, Bert Coules wrote:
Roger, thanks for that. Unfortunately, the clearance at the back of the
bookcase is 10mm: not deep enough for a flex outlet.

A flush clock connector would have a very low profile.
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK0995.html

--
Mike Clarke

Mike Clarke wrote:

A flush clock connector would have a very low profile.

Thanks for that. I can't find the exact dimensions for that - it doesn't
seem to be listed in the pdf file which the page links to - but it certainly
does look slim.

Ah, I found it. It's not listed as a clock connector which is why my word
search didn't turn it up. It seems that the projection is 9mm, which is
just workable, though the flex would have to come straight out of the
connector and through a hole in the back of the bookcase, meaning that any
slack would have to be inside the case itself, which isn't ideal.

Bert Coules wrote:

Roger, thanks for that. Unfortunately, the clearance at the back of the
bookcase is 10mm: not deep enough for a flex outlet.

OK, the standard bottom flex outlet plate from MK (K1090) is 13mm,
perhaps a bit lower if you can chip some plaster away. But they do one
with a front flex outlet, about half way up and to one side which is
only 9mm thick, but I can't find it or even its part number, on sale.
The following is from Ebay, depends if the light switch box meets the
bookcase at a good place for the flex to enter!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GET-Ultima...IAAOSwn7JYC2--
--

Roger Hayter

Bert Coules wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

When you say "cables" do you mean wires? and for "sockets" do you mean
terminals?

I do. Can I join the two common solid-core cables together in the back box
and run a single flexible cable the short distance from there to the common
terminal on the switch?

If they are already joined in the *same* common terminal, yes.

--

Roger Hayter

Roger,

Thanks for that: it's a lot cheaper than the MK version which Mike Clarke
linked to!

The problem is not so much the location (though that isn't ideal) as the
fact that any slack in the flex (and it's surely desirable to have some)
would have to be inside the bookcase, taking up valuable space.

With connectors inside a back box, I could either not have a front plate at
all, or use either an ultra-thin blanking plate with a hole drilled in its
face or a conventional one with a hole in the bottom edge.

Roger Hayter wrote:

If they are already joined in the *same* common terminal, yes.

Yes, that's the present situation: two solid-core cables to the same common
terminal. I'm suggesting joining them in a separate connector and running a
flexible cable from there to the terminal. Like a sort of mini spur.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 19:47:29 +0100, Roger Hayter wrote:

Bert Coules wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

This is designed for the job.

Thanks for that.

You can get a similar item without the fuse. This makes no great
difference electrically, but is less confusing and possibly cheaper.

Yes, I was looking at the MK site and they don't seem to list one in that
range. Or I'd have linked to it!

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On Fri, 23 Jun 2017 20:02:37 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

Roger, thanks for that. Unfortunately, the clearance at the back of the
bookcase is 10mm: not deep enough for a flex outlet.

You can get some where the flex emerges downwards through a slight bulge
at the bottom. That might work.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
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Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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