New Woodburner Regulations
 

On 24/04/2017 09:18, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


The other pressure on this is a very rapid rise in new deployments of
wood burners in last few years, particularly in areas of highest
premature death rates from polution such as Barnett.


Anyone that remembers the smogs wouldn't buy a wood burner or an aga.

Its only the irresponsibles like harry.

New Woodburner Regulations
 

On 24/04/2017 14:57, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The C stands for compact. The tube is compact - in comparison with a 4ft
batten fitting.

There were smaller than 4ft tubes around before the 2D. Surely what most
understand as a CFL is a complete unit which can replace a tungsten bulb?
Of course it would have made far more sense to stay with the 2D principle
- as it would with LEDs. A separate PS.


PL lamps are CFL but require a separate ballast.

New Woodburner Regulations
 

On 24/04/2017 15:43, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

Surely what most
understand as a CFL is a complete unit which can replace a tungsten bulb?
Of course it would have made far more sense to stay with the 2D principle
- as it would with LEDs. A separate PS.

With LED lamps it's more likely the PS (dodgy or cooked capacitors etc)
that will fail before the actual lamps.

So unless you have a way of persuading manufacturers to use a *good*
separate power supply, is there much point?

If you buy a LED lamp rather than a LED light bulb you will get a
separate PSU most of the time. It won't be in the place that gets
hottest either.

New Woodburner Regulations
 

On 23/04/2017 22:21, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher


8

That's unusual. All te Die-sons I have come across didnt work. Well
that's why I came across them I suppose.

You must be what the Yanks call a dumpster-diver. (dumpster - skip)

Why d'ye want to recover broken Dysons? You suffering from
Dave-fixation syndrome?

He only ever saw them when his maid broke one.

New Woodburner Regulations
 

On 23/04/2017 21:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Of course being bagless the filters clog up with fine dust in weeks.

Then they stop working.

Not in our experience.

OTOH the little filter based one I have for the workshop - I got it on
freecycle, and it's never been much good. I got fed up the other day,
and took a knife to the filter. It's transformed. But doubtless not
HEPA... I wore a dustmask while I was using it where the floorboards
used to be.

Andy

New Woodburner Regulations
 

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The SL18 was quickly followed by the Thorn 2D lamps - same idea but
with separate reusable control gear. (Thorn eventually sold all
their lamp manufacture to GE, although they retained luminare
design.)

Can you explain to the likes of me how a fluorescent tube with
separate control gear is a CFL?


The C stands for compact. The tube is compact - in comparison with a 4ft
batten fitting.

There were smaller than 4ft tubes around before the 2D. Surely what most
understand as a CFL is a complete unit which can replace a tungsten bulb?

Most people do assume that, but that's not at all what a compact
fluorescent really means. It relates to tubes designed to run at
different (higher) pressure, higher temperature, and higher current
densities than the original fluorescent tubes, which is a way to
make smaller tubes efficient, but it's not only used with smaller
tubes.

Original tubes were designed to run at 40C at an ambient of 25C,
and the gas pressure designed to be optimal at 40C for best
efficiency. (They could be manufactured for other optimum
temperatures, e.g. special tubes made for use in industrial
refrigerators, but each had a fairly tight optimum temperature.)

Compact fluorescents are designed to run at, typically, 100C,
and have much higher loading (Watts/foot of tube length).
The larger temperature difference between switch-on and running
presents a challenge and so does significant variation in the
final temperature. In order to keep the mercury pressure nearer
to optimal over a larger range, they use an amalgam pellet which
absorbs and releases mercury depending on the temperature. This
pellet heating up and releasing mercury is partly the reason for
compact fluorescents having a noticable run-up from a cold start.
Some also rely on a cold limb to regulate the gas pressure (e.g.
all T5HE and T5HO tubes which are also compact fluorescents, the
cold part being the extra tube length behind the electrode at the
labeled end of the tube).

Actually, original fluorescent tubes also have a significant
run-up, but it's much slower, and not such a marked change, so it
was rarely noticed.

Of course it would have made far more sense to stay with the 2D principle
- as it would with LEDs. A separate PS.

Economics of volume production trumps that. Separate parts should
be cheaper, but they aren't when there are orders of magnitude
difference in production quantities.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

New Woodburner Regulations
 

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
charles wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
The SL18 was quickly followed by the Thorn 2D lamps - same idea but
with separate reusable control gear. (Thorn eventually sold all
their lamp manufacture to GE, although they retained luminare
design.)

Can you explain to the likes of me how a fluorescent tube with
separate control gear is a CFL?


The C stands for compact. The tube is compact - in comparison with a
4ft
batten fitting.

There were smaller than 4ft tubes around before the 2D. Surely what most
understand as a CFL is a complete unit which can replace a tungsten bulb?

Most people do assume that, but that's not at all what a compact
fluorescent really means. It relates to tubes designed to run at
different (higher) pressure, higher temperature, and higher current
densities than the original fluorescent tubes, which is a way to
make smaller tubes efficient, but it's not only used with smaller
tubes.

Original tubes were designed to run at 40C at an ambient of 25C,
and the gas pressure designed to be optimal at 40C for best
efficiency. (They could be manufactured for other optimum
temperatures, e.g. special tubes made for use in industrial
refrigerators, but each had a fairly tight optimum temperature.)

Compact fluorescents are designed to run at, typically, 100C,
and have much higher loading (Watts/foot of tube length).
The larger temperature difference between switch-on and running
presents a challenge and so does significant variation in the
final temperature. In order to keep the mercury pressure nearer
to optimal over a larger range, they use an amalgam pellet which
absorbs and releases mercury depending on the temperature. This
pellet heating up and releasing mercury is partly the reason for
compact fluorescents having a noticable run-up from a cold start.
Some also rely on a cold limb to regulate the gas pressure (e.g.
all T5HE and T5HO tubes which are also compact fluorescents, the
cold part being the extra tube length behind the electrode at the
labeled end of the tube).

Actually, original fluorescent tubes also have a significant
run-up, but it's much slower, and not such a marked change, so it
was rarely noticed.

Of course it would have made far more sense to stay with the 2D principle
- as it would with LEDs. A separate PS.

Economics of volume production trumps that. Separate parts should
be cheaper, but they aren't when there are orders of magnitude
difference in production quantities.

Corse the PS less part would be cheaper to produce.

New Woodburner Regulations
 

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 08:38:04 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

In article , The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 23/04/17 22:21, Tim Streater wrote:

No, they are popular because they work. On ours, I clean the filters
about every six months, but only because SWMBO insists, not because
they need it.

ROFLMAO!
Maybe in your spotless clinical house, but not out here in the country.

We *are* out in the country. Big field of wheat behind and to one side,
even bigger field of rape across the road.

Who was raped?

--
An ostrichs eye is bigger than its brain.