We have a conventional CH system about 30-years old, i.e. gas boiler,
water pump, and diverter value for radiators vs coil in hot-water tank.
Over the last few days the pump has been making a lot more noise and
it sounds to me as if there is air/gas in the pump. Two nights ago the
system failed with the boiler reporting insufficient flow. In the
morning I removed the large screw from the shaft of the pump but hardly
any gas came out, just the usual trickle of water. But it restarted
again with much less noise. But today it was noisy again and then
failed again.

My guess is that the gas must be coming from corrosion. I put inhibitor
in the system the last time it had any attention maybe 6 years ago so
perhaps it needs renewing at intervals? I also found that water in the
header tank was full of brown floccules. So my current thought is that
I should drain down and flush with clean water a couple of times.

Does a central heating cleaner such as Fernox F3 do any good? It seems
this should be in the system for at most a day or two, so that needs a
few more drain-down and refills, unfortunately.


--
Clive Page

On Monday, 30 January 2017 09:45:26 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
We have a conventional CH system about 30-years old, i.e. gas boiler,
water pump, and diverter value for radiators vs coil in hot-water tank.
Over the last few days the pump has been making a lot more noise and
it sounds to me as if there is air/gas in the pump. Two nights ago the
system failed with the boiler reporting insufficient flow. In the
morning I removed the large screw from the shaft of the pump but hardly
any gas came out, just the usual trickle of water. But it restarted
again with much less noise. But today it was noisy again and then
failed again.

My guess is that the gas must be coming from corrosion. I put inhibitor
in the system the last time it had any attention maybe 6 years ago so
perhaps it needs renewing at intervals? I also found that water in the
header tank was full of brown floccules. So my current thought is that
I should drain down and flush with clean water a couple of times.

Does a central heating cleaner such as Fernox F3 do any good? It seems
this should be in the system for at most a day or two, so that needs a
few more drain-down and refills, unfortunately.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ng_pump_repair


NT

On 30/01/2017 09:45, Clive Page wrote:
We have a conventional CH system about 30-years old, i.e. gas boiler,
water pump, and diverter value for radiators vs coil in hot-water tank.
Over the last few days the pump has been making a lot more noise and
it sounds to me as if there is air/gas in the pump. Two nights ago the
system failed with the boiler reporting insufficient flow. In the
morning I removed the large screw from the shaft of the pump but hardly
any gas came out, just the usual trickle of water. But it restarted
again with much less noise. But today it was noisy again and then
failed again.

My guess is that the gas must be coming from corrosion. I put inhibitor
in the system the last time it had any attention maybe 6 years ago so
perhaps it needs renewing at intervals? I also found that water in the
header tank was full of brown floccules. So my current thought is that
I should drain down and flush with clean water a couple of times.

Does a central heating cleaner such as Fernox F3 do any good? It seems
this should be in the system for at most a day or two, so that needs a
few more drain-down and refills, unfortunately.



Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?



Cleaning

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank. If the issue looks
fungal, then you can get agent from Fernox to tackle this.
It's a while ago I did this, but I thought cleaner should be run for a
week???
Recommend you put some sort of strainer on the end of your drain hose to
see what it catches (net curtain of similar is OK).
If you get loads of black crud, consider running another cleaning cycle
and also fitting a magnetic filter e. g. Magna-Clean

Refill, bleed and run, refill , bleed and run, then drain, refill and
add inhibitor as you do so. Add anti-fungal to header tank if you have
bothered.
Check that the float valve is working well on header tank - any doubts
replace.

This will give the system a chance.

By 30 years old, particularly if the system hasn't been maintained much,
you may have solid crud blocking pipes. On a vented system this usually
occurs around the tee off for the vent or for the make up water.

Phil

On 30/01/2017 10:32, thescullster wrote:
Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?

Yes, they do, so I think the pump is basically ok, and it's a fairly
recent replacement, maybe 6 - 10 years old.

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank.

Thanks for the advice. I have bailed out the header tank, and am about
to scrub it clean.

But the problem is now obvious: the pipe from the header tank to the CH
circuit seems to be very nearly blocked. I tried threading a spiral
pipe unblocker but it gets stuck at the second bend, which may or not be
the site of the problem. I don't know whether trying to trickle some CH
cleaner or even descaling solution down the pipe might work, or maybe
connect a hose from it to cold mains and blast it with some mains
pressure? A bit tricky to get a tight seal at the header-tank end.

Any ideas would be welcome.

--
Clive Page

On 30/01/2017 12:51, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/01/2017 10:32, thescullster wrote:
Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?

Yes, they do, so I think the pump is basically ok, and it's a fairly
recent replacement, maybe 6 - 10 years old.

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank.

Thanks for the advice. I have bailed out the header tank, and am about
to scrub it clean.

But the problem is now obvious: the pipe from the header tank to the CH
circuit seems to be very nearly blocked. I tried threading a spiral pipe
unblocker but it gets stuck at the second bend, which may or not be the
site of the problem. I don't know whether trying to trickle some CH
cleaner or even descaling solution down the pipe might work, or maybe
connect a hose from it to cold mains and blast it with some mains
pressure? A bit tricky to get a tight seal at the header-tank end.

Any ideas would be welcome.


Take it apart?
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Monday, 30 January 2017 12:51:47 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/01/2017 10:32, thescullster wrote:
Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?

Yes, they do, so I think the pump is basically ok, and it's a fairly
recent replacement, maybe 6 - 10 years old.

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank.

Thanks for the advice. I have bailed out the header tank, and am about
to scrub it clean.

But the problem is now obvious: the pipe from the header tank to the CH
circuit seems to be very nearly blocked. I tried threading a spiral
pipe unblocker but it gets stuck at the second bend, which may or not be
the site of the problem. I don't know whether trying to trickle some CH
cleaner or even descaling solution down the pipe might work, or maybe
connect a hose from it to cold mains and blast it with some mains
pressure? A bit tricky to get a tight seal at the header-tank end.

Any ideas would be welcome.

--
Clive Page

Blow the crap out with a hosepipe connected to mains water pressure.
You might have to disconnect some bits.
Make sure you don't over pressure anything in the system or blow crap into the system.

The pipe must be blocked virtually solid.
Bit worrying as to what it could be.
Normally there only water movement in that pipe is due to expansion of water in the system.

harry Wrote in message:
On Monday, 30 January 2017 12:51:47 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/01/2017 10:32, thescullster wrote:
Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?

Yes, they do, so I think the pump is basically ok, and it's a fairly
recent replacement, maybe 6 - 10 years old.

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank.

Thanks for the advice. I have bailed out the header tank, and am about
to scrub it clean.

But the problem is now obvious: the pipe from the header tank to the CH
circuit seems to be very nearly blocked. I tried threading a spiral
pipe unblocker but it gets stuck at the second bend, which may or not be
the site of the problem. I don't know whether trying to trickle some CH
cleaner or even descaling solution down the pipe might work, or maybe
connect a hose from it to cold mains and blast it with some mains
pressure? A bit tricky to get a tight seal at the header-tank end.

Any ideas would be welcome.

--
Clive Page

Blow the crap out with a hosepipe connected to mains water pressure.
You might have to disconnect some bits.
Make sure you don't over pressure anything in the system or blow crap into the system.

The pipe must be blocked virtually solid.
Bit worrying as to what it could be.
Normally there only water movement in that pipe is due to expansion of water in the system.


As noted earlier, there seems to be an interface level in both the
make up water feed and the hot vent pipes at which crud likes to
form in a vented system.
The nature of the stuff in a system I inherited was a solid
deposit that would no way be shifted by an air line. I reckon
that any cleaner capable of sorting this would have eaten through
anything else in the system.
So the area of piping around the fill pipe and vent had to be cut
out and replaced. Pipework and valve points were reduced to 1/4"
bore by the build up. The problem tends to create positive
feedback because the narrowing pipe bore leads to pump over via
the vent. This oxygenates/aerates the heating circuit water
accelerating the corrosion and sludging process.

Do you know if your system is suffering from pump over I. E. Hot
water discharging from the vent pipe back into the header tank?
The aeration of the header tank water can lead to pump noise due
to cavitation.
This effect may only occur under certain states of the system. To
check, hang a plastic cup under the vent return so the system
goes through all phases of operation.

In a 30 year old system with problems I would seriously consider
replacing accessible piping around the junction with vent and
fill pipes and also around the motorised valves (unless you can
strip this and convince yourself it is clear of blockage)

Take rads off and blast mains water through all piping. Remove
rads outside and blast water through while shaking and turning
rad until water is totally clear. Hook it all back up and then
run chemical cleaner through, flush a few times, refill and add
Fernox inhibitor. Don't forget the MagnaClean or similar
filter.
While the rads are off, fit new valves and TRVs for good measure.


Phil
--


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In article ,
harry writes:
On Monday, 30 January 2017 12:51:47 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
On 30/01/2017 10:32, thescullster wrote:
Maybe the pump's just plain knackered!
When the pump runs, do the motorised valves control the heating/hot
water as you would expect?

Yes, they do, so I think the pump is basically ok, and it's a fairly
recent replacement, maybe 6 - 10 years old.

Make sure you bail out the header tank, don't drain loads of cr@p
through the system. Then scrub out header tank.

Thanks for the advice. I have bailed out the header tank, and am about
to scrub it clean.

But the problem is now obvious: the pipe from the header tank to the CH
circuit seems to be very nearly blocked. I tried threading a spiral
pipe unblocker but it gets stuck at the second bend, which may or not be
the site of the problem. I don't know whether trying to trickle some CH
cleaner or even descaling solution down the pipe might work, or maybe
connect a hose from it to cold mains and blast it with some mains
pressure? A bit tricky to get a tight seal at the header-tank end.

Any ideas would be welcome.

--
Clive Page

Blow the crap out with a hosepipe connected to mains water pressure.
You might have to disconnect some bits.
Make sure you don't over pressure anything in the system or blow crap into the system.

The pipe must be blocked virtually solid.
Bit worrying as to what it could be.
Normally there only water movement in that pipe is due to expansion of water in the system.

If the system has been left with a continuous leak for some time, you
can find the area of the pipe which transitions from cold to hot forms
hard water scale when theres a slow trickle of fresh water entering
the system there.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]