All I want is to see the cost/unit and daily cost for typical
household bands of usage for a given region from various suppliers.

I don't want to have to give my address, existing provider, email
contact and a whole host of other information.

FWIW for gas in the East Mids area I'm paying 2.25p/kwh and 18p/day
inc VAT on an annual estimate of 19,000 kwh and that is likely to go
up.

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

No wonder folk find energy switching complex.


--
AnthonyL

On 29/01/2017 22:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , AnthonyL
wrote:

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

That'll depend on gas pressure.

Isn't the only variable in the calculation the calorific value of the gas?


Which is actually an interesting point. Is gas always supplied at a
guaranteed constant pressure? What if the pressure varies? Does the
meter take that into account?


I suspect that the cu ft indication is after the gas has been pressure
regulated in the meter.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , AnthonyL
wrote:

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

That'll depend on gas pressure.

Which is actually an interesting point. Is gas always supplied at a
guaranteed constant pressure? What if the pressure varies? Does the
meter take that into account?

You really think it varies significantly post-regulator? That would make a
nonsense of any volumetric meter reading and be positively dangerous for
many gas appliances.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 29/01/2017 22:21, alan_m wrote:
On 29/01/2017 22:13, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , AnthonyL
wrote:

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

That'll depend on gas pressure.

Isn't the only variable in the calculation the calorific value of the gas?


Which is actually an interesting point. Is gas always supplied at a
guaranteed constant pressure? What if the pressure varies? Does the
meter take that into account?


I suspect that the cu ft indication is after the gas has been pressure
regulated in the meter.

I am with you on this as it drives me mad the amount of variables
although I can now get within a couple of pence of my estimate with the
actual monthly bill they send me.
This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

On Sunday, 29 January 2017 21:58:14 UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
All I want is to see the cost/unit and daily cost for typical
household bands of usage for a given region from various suppliers.

I don't want to have to give my address, existing provider, email
contact and a whole host of other information.

mailinator.com

FWIW for gas in the East Mids area I'm paying 2.25p/kwh and 18p/day
inc VAT on an annual estimate of 19,000 kwh and that is likely to go
up.

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

calorific value of gas varies

No wonder folk find energy switching complex.


NT

In message , ss
writes

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^ My son has set up a VPN through which I am currently
connected. Having clicked the above link, a box appears saying British
Gas want to know my location. I click OK, and a little map appears,
showing where I live. I thought the whole point of the VPN was to
prevent anyone knowing where I am. I assumed that even if I clicked OK
as above, BG would get some random address anywhere. What have I
misunderstood?
--
Graeme

On 30/01/17 07:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , ss
writes

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^ My son has set up a VPN through which I am currently
connected. Having clicked the above link, a box appears saying British
Gas want to know my location. I click OK, and a little map appears,
showing where I live. I thought the whole point of the VPN was to
prevent anyone knowing where I am. I assumed that even if I clicked OK
as above, BG would get some random address anywhere. What have I
misunderstood?

No idea. Maybe you used that VPN to tell someone else where you lived.

I don't use a VPN and it has no idea where I am...


--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

On 30/01/2017 07:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , ss
writes

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^ My son has set up a VPN through which I am currently
connected. Having clicked the above link, a box appears saying British
Gas want to know my location. I click OK, and a little map appears,
showing where I live. I thought the whole point of the VPN was to
prevent anyone knowing where I am.

No, the primary point of the VPN is to allow information to be
transferred over the public internet in a way that prevents the
information being read during transit.

A side effect of that is that is that the IP address presented to web
servers etc will usually be that of the termination point of the VPN
rather than that of the computer at the far end of the VPN.

I assumed that even if I clicked OK
as above, BG would get some random address anywhere. What have I
misunderstood?

I think you are assuming that the web site is deducing your location
based solely on your IP address. Needless to say its a good deal more
complicated than that these days since all modern web browsers support
geo location functionality.

If you allow your browser to send your actual location, then any amount
of obfuscation that occurs later is rather too late in preventing your
location being passed on.

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on. Needless
to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its easy. Failing
that it may use a geo location service provider like google, lob it your
IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in the area that it knows of
(remember the street view cars also hoover up the access point names of
any wifi networks they find while driving - and so can match wifi
network names to places)


See:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/geolocation/


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/01/2017 07:17, Graeme wrote:
In message , ss
writes

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^ My son has set up a VPN through which I am currently
connected. Having clicked the above link, a box appears saying British
Gas want to know my location. I click OK, and a little map appears,
showing where I live. I thought the whole point of the VPN was to
prevent anyone knowing where I am. I assumed that even if I clicked OK
as above, BG would get some random address anywhere. What have I
misunderstood?

Same here on Firefox and Opera, doesn't work on Safari on a Mac. I think
this covers it:

http://security.stackexchange.com/qu...im-using-a-vpn

--
Cheers, Rob

Graeme wrote
ss wrote

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^

I'd have you publicly flogged for that unbalanced bracketing
if it wasn't for how much you had enjoyed that the last time...

My son has set up a VPN through which I am currently connected.

Are you one of those senile old farts that can't
even do the simplest things for yourself, anymore ?

Having clicked the above link, a box appears saying British Gas want to
know my location.

Its actually MI6 and Trump that want to know that.

I click OK, and a little map appears, showing where I live.

That's because Trump has had his goons watching your every scratch and
fart...

I thought the whole point of the VPN was to prevent anyone knowing where I
am.

That is certainly one of the reasons some choose to use them.

I assumed that even if I clicked OK as above, BG would get some random
address anywhere.

Nope.

What have I misunderstood?

Almost everything.

Clearly what your son has setup for you is pretty hopeless.

Presumably the problem is in your genes.

John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on. Needless
to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its easy. Failing
that it may use a geo location service provider like google, lob it your
IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in the area that it knows of
(remember the street view cars also hoover up the access point names of
any wifi networks they find while driving - and so can match wifi
network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

--
Chris Green
·

On 30/01/2017 09:50, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on. Needless
to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its easy. Failing
that it may use a geo location service provider like google, lob it your
IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in the area that it knows of
(remember the street view cars also hoover up the access point names of
any wifi networks they find while driving - and so can match wifi
network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

How well the location facilities work depend on a number of factors. On
a GPS enabled phone, they will usually be spot on. Without GPS, they are
usually still fairly accurate. With wifi connected PCs they are usually
also fairly good if there are a few networks visible. For a hard wired
desktop machine they may be quite poor in comparison.

If the web site in question is using a third party location provider
then its anybody's guess as to what information gets included into the
final mix. So for example having a GPS phone attached to your wifi, may
allow a third party location service to associate a physical location
with your ISPs IP. That may then be cached and used later when
responding to a query to locate your desktop machine even though itself
it can't provide GPS or wifi network information.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 09:50, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on. Needless
to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its easy. Failing
that it may use a geo location service provider like google, lob it your
IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in the area that it knows of
(remember the street view cars also hoover up the access point names of
any wifi networks they find while driving - and so can match wifi
network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

How well the location facilities work depend on a number of factors. On
a GPS enabled phone, they will usually be spot on. Without GPS, they are
usually still fairly accurate. With wifi connected PCs they are usually
also fairly good if there are a few networks visible. For a hard wired
desktop machine they may be quite poor in comparison.

My desktop is hard-wired, it *usually* thinks it's in the UK but that
seems mostly to depend on my browsing history (as noted above).

My laptop uses WiFi and takes a *long* time to come home after being
in France.


If the web site in question is using a third party location provider

It was the browser's idea of location rather than a web site's wasn't
it?

--
Chris Green
·

On 30/01/2017 11:53, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 09:50, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on. Needless
to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its easy. Failing
that it may use a geo location service provider like google, lob it your
IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in the area that it knows of
(remember the street view cars also hoover up the access point names of
any wifi networks they find while driving - and so can match wifi
network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

How well the location facilities work depend on a number of factors. On
a GPS enabled phone, they will usually be spot on. Without GPS, they are
usually still fairly accurate. With wifi connected PCs they are usually
also fairly good if there are a few networks visible. For a hard wired
desktop machine they may be quite poor in comparison.

My desktop is hard-wired, it *usually* thinks it's in the UK but that
seems mostly to depend on my browsing history (as noted above).

My laptop uses WiFi and takes a *long* time to come home after being
in France.


If the web site in question is using a third party location provider

It was the browser's idea of location rather than a web site's wasn't
it?

Kind of... firefox for example (IIUC) uses google geo location service
to answer location questions it receives from the web site.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Tim Streater writes:
In article , AnthonyL
wrote:

And how standard is the conversion from Cu Ft to kwh? Seemingly
another mystery figure that takes some extracting.

That'll depend on gas pressure.

and the constituents of the gas, and the temperature of the gas.

In practice, temperature is the main thing that changes it, and
thus you will see the value vary very slightly between summer and
winter.

Which is actually an interesting point. Is gas always supplied at a
guaranteed constant pressure?

Yes, that's exactly why there's a pressure regulator immediately before
the gas meter. (Being out of range is treated as an urgent call-out.)

What if the pressure varies? Does the meter take that into account?

No, nor density which is why temperature is factored in (density
changes with temperature at constant pressure).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 11:53, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 09:50, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on.
Needless to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its
easy. Failing that it may use a geo location service provider like
google, lob it your IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in
the area that it knows of (remember the street view cars also hoover
up the access point names of any wifi networks they find while
driving - and so can match wifi network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

How well the location facilities work depend on a number of factors.
On a GPS enabled phone, they will usually be spot on. Without GPS,
they are usually still fairly accurate. With wifi connected PCs they
are usually also fairly good if there are a few networks visible. For
a hard wired desktop machine they may be quite poor in comparison.

My desktop is hard-wired, it *usually* thinks it's in the UK but that
seems mostly to depend on my browsing history (as noted above).

My laptop uses WiFi and takes a *long* time to come home after being
in France.


If the web site in question is using a third party location provider

It was the browser's idea of location rather than a web site's wasn't
it?

Kind of... firefox for example (IIUC) uses google geo location service
to answer location questions it receives from the web site.

Re location services: I was a bit surprised, on Saturday, to discover that
my phone knew where my car was parked.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In message , Rod Speed
writes
Graeme wrote
ss wrote

This is the nearest I have got for other info:
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/EnergyU...son_Anonymous/

*Tangent Alert^

I'd have you publicly flogged for that unbalanced bracketing
if it wasn't for how much you had enjoyed that the last time...

Yes, I realised that after posting.

Presumably the problem is in your genes.

Says the descendent of a convict.

--
Graeme

On 30/01/2017 13:50, charles wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 11:53, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 30/01/2017 09:50, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

How your browser gets your actual location varies depending on what
information it has access to and what hardware its running on.
Needless to say if its on hardware with GPS available, then its
easy. Failing that it may use a geo location service provider like
google, lob it your IP, and the names of any WiFi access points in
the area that it knows of (remember the street view cars also hoover
up the access point names of any wifi networks they find while
driving - and so can match wifi network names to places)

It's basically crap!

I regularly get Google insisting that I'm in France several days after
I have returned from a trip there. It seems to use the data stored in
its history to guess where you are. So if you do lots of searches
for something in Chile (I did this recently) it will think you are in
Chile for a while.

If you clear out entries from the places.sqlite database file in the
browser configuration (Firefox, I guess others may be similar) then
your 'location' will revert to somewhere nearer home.

How well the location facilities work depend on a number of factors.
On a GPS enabled phone, they will usually be spot on. Without GPS,
they are usually still fairly accurate. With wifi connected PCs they
are usually also fairly good if there are a few networks visible. For
a hard wired desktop machine they may be quite poor in comparison.

My desktop is hard-wired, it *usually* thinks it's in the UK but that
seems mostly to depend on my browsing history (as noted above).

My laptop uses WiFi and takes a *long* time to come home after being
in France.


If the web site in question is using a third party location provider

It was the browser's idea of location rather than a web site's wasn't
it?

Kind of... firefox for example (IIUC) uses google geo location service
to answer location questions it receives from the web site.

Re location services: I was a bit surprised, on Saturday, to discover that
my phone knew where my car was parked.

Yup, I have noticed that on mine in the past. Seems like it makes
inferences, presumably like "he was driving, now seems to be walking,
must have left the car!"

(although the other day it seemed convinced I drove somewhere, and then
motor cycled back - not sure how it worked that out).


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/01/17 18:40, John Rumm wrote:
Yup, I have noticed that on mine in the past. Seems like it makes
inferences, presumably like "he was driving, now seems to be walking,
must have left the car!"

Or he is on the M25...


--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"