I have started this thread as a spin-off from 'Clock Radios' as it is
taking a digression

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:24:04 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

The point that seems to have been misses is getting CE approval. If the
equipment has a mains supply then th whole device needs to be submitted,
otherwise it's only the pwer unit. In addition different power units can be
suppled for different countries without changing the whole device.

I am still having problems with LED spotlights. These are MR16 12
Volt units. They carry the CE marking but the supplier says they are
not EMC compliant. I have been told various different things:

1. The supplier says that the bulbs do not require to be EMC
compliant, only power unit (as you seem to be saying).

2. Consumer helpline say that only 'low voltage' equipment needs to
be EMC compliant but they do not know what 'low voltage' means.

3. The EMC Directive
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030
suggests all 'apparatus' is covered.

4. The Telegraph suggests that EMC compliance is voluntary:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

Scott

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" . Like most Eurobabble rules it
is ignored by many.

On 06/01/2017 19:23, Scott wrote:
I have started this thread as a spin-off from 'Clock Radios' as it is
taking a digression

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:24:04 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

The point that seems to have been misses is getting CE approval.

CE Marking is not approval. It's a self-declaration by a manufacturer
or importer of compliance with all relevant EU directives, established
by testing to harmonised standards, or otherwise. In practice the
cynical view that CE stands for caveat emptor has more than a grain of
truth...

I am still having problems with LED spotlights. These are MR16 12
Volt units. They carry the CE marking but the supplier says they are
not EMC compliant.

If true, that would mean their sale or use in any member state is
unlawful. In the UK the enforcement body is trading standards.

I have been told various different things:

1. The supplier says that the bulbs do not require to be EMC
compliant, only power unit (as you seem to be saying).

I doubt that's true if the lamps contain any switch-mode electronics and
are sold separately.

2. Consumer helpline say that only 'low voltage' equipment needs to
be EMC compliant but they do not know what 'low voltage' means.

That's muddling EMC and the low-voltage directive (LVD). EMC applies
regardless of supply voltage. The LVD is concerned with eletrical
safety of mains voltage equipment. Low voltage is 50 - 1000 V AC (75 -
1500 V DC). Lower voltages are deemed ELV.

3. The EMC Directive
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030
suggests all 'apparatus' is covered.

Yes, with some exemptions.

4. The Telegraph suggests that EMC compliance is voluntary:

Piffle.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030

Was that meant to be a link to the the Telegraph?


5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC.

Yes, and the LVD if relevant. The manufacturer/inporter should have a
declaration of conformity showing what standards or other means they've
used to show conformance.

Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

No, but 'electromagnetically benign apparatus' - such as a simple
filament lamp, perhaps - is exempt, so cannot be non-compliant.

--
Andy

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 22:07:19 +0000, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" . Like most Eurobabble rules it
is ignored by many.

Cynicism always valid but on this occasion does not assist in
advancing an argument to take matters forward.

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 00:27:59 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

On 06/01/2017 19:23, Scott wrote:

[snip]

4. The Telegraph suggests that EMC compliance is voluntary:

Piffle.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030

Was that meant to be a link to the the Telegraph?

Yes, Apologies for lack of proof-reading.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...DAB-radio.html

On 07/01/2017 09:54, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 00:27:59 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

On 06/01/2017 19:23, Scott wrote:

[snip]

4. The Telegraph suggests that EMC compliance is voluntary:

Piffle.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030

Was that meant to be a link to the the Telegraph?

Yes, Apologies for lack of proof-reading.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...DAB-radio.html

I've read the article and I believe the Telegraph article is utterly wrong.

CE marking in itself implies the device conforms to all relevant rules
including EMC compliance.

An importer is treated as a manufacturer, where the importer should have
a technical file for the product and is responsible for ensuring CE
compliance.

On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 11:22:33 +0000, Fredxxx wrote:

On 07/01/2017 09:54, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2017 00:27:59 +0000, Andy Wade
wrote:

On 06/01/2017 19:23, Scott wrote:

[snip]

4. The Telegraph suggests that EMC compliance is voluntary:

Piffle.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...LEX:32014L0030

Was that meant to be a link to the the Telegraph?

Yes, Apologies for lack of proof-reading.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...DAB-radio.html

I've read the article and I believe the Telegraph article is utterly wrong.

CE marking in itself implies the device conforms to all relevant rules
including EMC compliance.

An importer is treated as a manufacturer, where the importer should have
a technical file for the product and is responsible for ensuring CE
compliance.

Thanks. I have asked them of the Declaration of Conformity so I await
the reply with interest.

On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

Like most Eurobabble rules it
is ignored by many.

And followed by many too.


NT

On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we do.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Sat, 07 Jan 2017 20:41:18 +0000 (GMT), charles
wrote:

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we do.

And half the people want to remain in the single market. And the
government says all EU laws will be retained at the start subject to
modification later.

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we do.

But no good reason to studiously observe regulations that wont be
around for long unless you are so anal that you can scoot around on
the floor with no pants on when your vacuum cleaner stops working.

On 07/01/2017 22:14, Rod Speed wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we do.

But no good reason to studiously observe regulations that wont be
around for long unless you are so anal that you can scoot around on
the floor with no pants on when your vacuum cleaner stops working.

Even Turkey has been invited to various standards committees. Why do you
think the UK will leave them?

I would expect there might be some deviation of laws, such as the resale
of used jam jars but little else.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
news
On 07/01/2017 22:14, Rod Speed wrote:


"charles" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we
do.

But no good reason to studiously observe regulations that wont be
around for long unless you are so anal that you can scoot around on
the floor with no pants on when your vacuum cleaner stops working.

Even Turkey has been invited to various standards committees.

Because at one time they were considering joining the EU.

Why do you think the UK will leave them?

It clearly did with its electrical wiring systems.

I would expect there might be some deviation of laws, such as the resale
of used jam jars but little else.

Bet a great raft of stuff does get binned myself.

On 07/01/17 23:01, Scott wrote:
the
government says all EU laws will be retained at the start subject to
modification later.

well that's only sensible.

No point in throwing babies out with bathwater.

As it becomes obvious that a given regulation has no real use and is
only designed to make you buy Bosh, chuck it out and buy a Henry instead.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 09:14:53 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"charles" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we do.

But no good reason to studiously observe regulations that wont be
around for long unless you are so anal that you can scoot around on
the floor with no pants on when your vacuum cleaner stops working.

No pants! I once saw an advert for naked cleaners. Are you starting
a new thread :-)

On 08/01/2017 04:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/01/17 23:01, Scott wrote:
the
government says all EU laws will be retained at the start subject to
modification later.

well that's only sensible.

No point in throwing babies out with bathwater.

As it becomes obvious that a given regulation has no real use and is
only designed to make you buy Bosh, chuck it out and buy a Henry instead.


That's a poor choice as henry vacs complied with the regs before they
were made and some Bosh ones didn't.
So the regs were to make you but henry and not bosch assuming there was
a conspiracy at all.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:41:01 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

On 08/01/2017 04:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/01/17 23:01, Scott wrote:
the
government says all EU laws will be retained at the start subject to
modification later.

well that's only sensible.

No point in throwing babies out with bathwater.

As it becomes obvious that a given regulation has no real use and is
only designed to make you buy Bosh, chuck it out and buy a Henry instead.


That's a poor choice as henry vacs complied with the regs before they
were made and some Bosh ones didn't.
So the regs were to make you but henry and not bosch assuming there was
a conspiracy at all.

Que?

On 08/01/2017 14:46, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 14:41:01 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

On 08/01/2017 04:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 07/01/17 23:01, Scott wrote:
the
government says all EU laws will be retained at the start subject to
modification later.

well that's only sensible.

No point in throwing babies out with bathwater.

As it becomes obvious that a given regulation has no real use and is
only designed to make you buy Bosh, chuck it out and buy a Henry instead.


That's a poor choice as henry vacs complied with the regs before they
were made and some Bosh ones didn't.
So the regs were to make you but henry and not bosch assuming there was
a conspiracy at all.

Que?


Spiel chocker.. buy henry.

On 07/01/2017 20:06, dennis@home wrote:


If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

There is nothing to stop the chinese using the same font/spacing.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.


Which will make absolutely no difference. If the UK has its own
conformity mark and a far east manufacturer wishes to ignore testing
there is nothing to stop them just printing the conformity mark on their
equipment.

The reason that so many suspect products have a CE mark is that the
chances of being caught are minimal and it doesn't matter to the
original far eastern manufacturer because they cannot be prosecuted.


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 08/01/2017 15:08, alan_m wrote:
On 07/01/2017 20:06, dennis@home wrote:


If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

There is nothing to stop the chinese using the same font/spacing.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.


Which will make absolutely no difference. If the UK has its own
conformity mark and a far east manufacturer wishes to ignore testing
there is nothing to stop them just printing the conformity mark on their
equipment.

The reason that so many suspect products have a CE mark is that the
chances of being caught are minimal and it doesn't matter to the
original far eastern manufacturer because they cannot be prosecuted.



Its not the responsibility of the manufacturer to ensure conformance,
its the importer that has that responsibility.
The importer is the one that will be prosecuted.

"Scott" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 09:14:53 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"charles" wrote in message
...
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 07/01/2017 18:43, wrote:
On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:07:27 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 19:23:14 +0000, Scott
wrote:

5. My understanding is that the CE marking denotes compliance with
EMC. Arey they allowed to mark non EMC compliant bulbs as CE?

CE simply stands for "Chinese Export" .

myth

If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

If its CE and wrong font its what many Chinese companies put on and may
as well mean Chinese export because it doesn't mean anything else.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.

but, we haven't yet and it is lilely to be at least 2 years before we
do.

But no good reason to studiously observe regulations that wont be
around for long unless you are so anal that you can scoot around on
the floor with no pants on when your vacuum cleaner stops working.

No pants! I once saw an advert for naked cleaners. Are you starting
a new thread :-)

Down, boy.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 17:07:46 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

On 08/01/2017 15:08, alan_m wrote:
On 07/01/2017 20:06, dennis@home wrote:


If it says CE and is in the correct font and spacing its the EUs
conformity mark.

There is nothing to stop the chinese using the same font/spacing.

Its all academic now as according to many posters on this group we are
opting out of the EU regulations.


Which will make absolutely no difference. If the UK has its own
conformity mark and a far east manufacturer wishes to ignore testing
there is nothing to stop them just printing the conformity mark on their
equipment.

The reason that so many suspect products have a CE mark is that the
chances of being caught are minimal and it doesn't matter to the
original far eastern manufacturer because they cannot be prosecuted.



Its not the responsibility of the manufacturer to ensure conformance,
its the importer that has that responsibility.
The importer is the one that will be prosecuted.

'Will' is turning out to be a considerable exaggeration in the
situation I am involved in. I have not as yet succeeded in getting
anyone to accept my complaint.

On 08/01/2017 19:41, Scott wrote:

Its not the responsibility of the manufacturer to ensure conformance,
its the importer that has that responsibility.
The importer is the one that will be prosecuted.

'Will' is turning out to be a considerable exaggeration in the
situation I am involved in. I have not as yet succeeded in getting
anyone to accept my complaint.


Trading standards if its a shop/uk business.
Amazon/ebay if its from there.
If you imported it personally from a chinese site then best of luck.

I recently complained when an ebayer sent me one of those horrible
un-fused mains leads and they refunded my order within a day.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 17:07:46 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

Its not the responsibility of the manufacturer to ensure conformance,
its the importer that has that responsibility.
The importer is the one that will be prosecuted.

It is the responsibility of the first importer into the EU. It is
quite surprising how many first importers are based in garages in
Latvia and Estonia