It seems really crazy that in our age we still cannot make some robot able
to dismantle this broken reactor and clean up the site, we are still just
hiding it. I guess it will stand as a monument to human stupidity for many
years to come.


What about the underground issues with radioactive fluids washing under the
site though.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

"One of the most ambitious projects in the history of engineering passes
a major milestone today as the arch shielding radioactive waste caused
by the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear power station accident has started sliding
into place"

"Chernobyl's New Safe Confinement (NSC) is the largest moveable land-
based structure ever built, with a span of 257 metres, a length of 162
metres, a height of 108 metres and a total weight of 36,000 tonnes
equipped"

"It will now be moved into its resting place over Chernobyl's reactor 4
which was destroyed in the accident 30 years ago"

"The sliding is done with help of a special skidding system that
consists of 224 hydraulic jacks to push the arch 60 centimetres each
stroke. It is anticipated that the total skid time will be around 40
hours of operation spread over a period of up to 5 days"

http://chnpp.gov.ua/en/default-en/10...tep-in-unique-
engineering-project-as-chernobyl-arch-slides-into-place

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On 16/11/16 09:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
It seems really crazy that in our age we still cannot make some robot able
to dismantle this broken reactor and clean up the site, we are still just
hiding it. I guess it will stand as a monument to human stupidity for many
years to come.


Why would we want to?

The easiest way to take care of Chernobyl is to contain it and then
LEAVE it until the radioactivity has died down. Its far safer where it
is than carting it somewhere else.


What about the underground issues with radioactive fluids washing under the
site though.

What issues?

Have you been reading the guardian (or listening to the guardian
perhaps) on the bog again Brian?

Guardian. The newspaper for people who think they are cleverer than they
actually are.

Brian



--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On 16-Nov-16 9:27 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
It seems really crazy that in our age we still cannot make some robot able
to dismantle this broken reactor and clean up the site, we are still just
hiding it. I guess it will stand as a monument to human stupidity for many
years to come.

They tried robots at the time of the accident. The radiation fried their
circuits. The simplest answer is to protect the site and come back when
the radiation has fallen to manageable levels, which is what they are
doing with this shield.


--
--

Colin Bignell

En el artículo , Brian Gaff
escribió:

What about the underground issues with radioactive fluids washing under the
site though.

They attempted freezing the soil a la Fukushima, gave up on that and
resorted to filling in the lower levels of the plant with concrete.
That included a chamber dug under the plant by miners for refrigeration
equipment.

They're constantly damping down the inside of the existing sarcophagus
with water spray to prevent radioactive dust rising, and that
contaminated water is finding its way into the ground.

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En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

The uranium that melted through the concrete floor reached the floor
below, spread out a bit - and so ceased to be critical - and then
solidified.

The pics of the "Elephant's Foot" are interesting, including the one of
some lunatic standing right next to it.

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles...of-chernobyls-
most-dangerous-radioactive-material-was-a-selfie

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On 16/11/16 12:10, Nightjar wrote:
On 16-Nov-16 9:27 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
It seems really crazy that in our age we still cannot make some robot
able
to dismantle this broken reactor and clean up the site, we are still
just
hiding it. I guess it will stand as a monument to human stupidity for
many
years to come.

They tried robots at the time of the accident. The radiation fried their
circuits. The simplest answer is to protect the site and come back when
the radiation has fallen to manageable levels, which is what they are
doing with this shield.


Yup. Of course the likes of harry always yell 'not a single power
station decommissioned yet' which is

- a lie, because several have been, and
- disingenuous, because its way easier to simply let them cool down for
50 years or more first...

Robots can be hardened against radiation are are routinely used for all
sorts of purposes inside reactors.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 16/11/16 12:29, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Brian Gaff
escribió:

What about the underground issues with radioactive fluids washing under the
site though.

They attempted freezing the soil a la Fukushima, gave up on that and
resorted to filling in the lower levels of the plant with concrete.
That included a chamber dug under the plant by miners for refrigeration
equipment.

They're constantly damping down the inside of the existing sarcophagus
with water spray to prevent radioactive dust rising, and that
contaminated water is finding its way into the ground.

Yawn.



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 11/16/2016 9:27 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
It seems really crazy that in our age we still cannot make some robot able
to dismantle this broken reactor and clean up the site, we are still just
hiding it. I guess it will stand as a monument to human stupidity for many
years to come.


What about the underground issues with radioactive fluids washing under the
site though.
Brian

The issue is not whether you can break it up into manageable lumps, it's
that this will inevitably mobilise radioactive dust. Far more sensible
to let it all decay quietly, which it will, while keeping the wind and
rain away with a big enclosure.

Keep the rain off and not much gets washed into the ground. Soil and
minerals are very good at immobilising radioactivity, look up Oklo.

And it is trivially easy to detect even harmless levels in rivers, water
supplies, etc.

En el artículo , Chris Hogg
escribió:

How much contaminated?

I don't know, but if they feel the need to damp it down and risk
contaminating ground water vs. leaving it alone, it's presumably pretty
nasty. Remember the reactor pressure vessel is wide open (lid blown
off) and there is no secondary containment.

Wikipedia says 30 tons of 'highly contaminated' dust.

Technical analysis, estimate of amount and type of contaminant, risk
assessment of the dust problem, plus proposed water (actually fine mist)
spray solution he

http://www.wmsym.org/archives/2000/pdf/47/47-7.pdf

The NSC will be negatively pressurised to prevent airborne particles
escaping into the environment when demolition of the existing
sarcophagus, then dealing with the debris, is under way.

http://chernobylgallery.com/chernoby...r/sarcophagus/

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