a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug
like "normal"..

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

TIA
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Jim K


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jim wrote:

a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug

I had one of those get jammed, after only a couple of years, new rads
are pretty cheap ...

O
n Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 6:17:24 PM UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
jim wrote:

a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug

I had one of those get jammed, after only a couple of years, new rads
are pretty cheap ...

I had same problem and couldn't get a similar size rad at all so after an hour of despair I decided to do this to bleed; release the rad from its hangers and tilt down past horizontal then pressurise the system and slightly undo the valve unions to release the air, until water comes out. Tighten up union then re-hang.

Was quite lucky that I had enough play in the pipes (but still had to briefly release unions when hung to reset valves to vertical then re-tighten) but if not you could leave unions semi loose to re-tilt it vertical and as long as the CH is pressurised (and leaking from unions) you wont lose the water level in rad.

Astonishingly it worked and got the water (felt by the heat) up to about 80% of the rad height.

Typical DIY type roller-coaster day, easy 5 minute bleed job turns into suicide inducing despair then (unusually for me) an uncannily successful result!

Don't try drilling the rad as they are mostly just thin sheet metal so nothing to cut a thread into unless you're lucky.

simon mitchelmore Wrote in message:
I had same problem and couldn't get a similar size rad at all so after an hour of despair I decided to do this to bleed; release the rad from its hangers and tilt down past horizontal then pressurise the system and slightly undo the valve unions to release the air, until water comes out. Tighten up union then re-hang.

Was quite lucky that I had enough play in the pipes (but still had to briefly release unions when hung to reset valves to vertical then re-tighten) but if not you could leave unions semi loose to re-tilt it vertical and as long as the CH is pressurised (and leaking from unions) you wont lose the water level in rad.

Astonishingly it worked and got the water (felt by the heat) up to about 80% of the rad height.

Typical DIY type roller-coaster day, easy 5 minute bleed job turns into suicide inducing despair then (unusually for me) an uncannily successful result!


Mmm how many times have you done that since though? this one is a
regular air locker. If it was "normal" I'd fit one of those "auto
bleed vent" jobbies....

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Jim K


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On 10/11/2016 22:58, jim wrote:
simon mitchelmore Wrote in message:
I had same problem and couldn't get a similar size rad at all so after an hour of despair I decided to do this to bleed; release the rad from its hangers and tilt down past horizontal then pressurise the system and slightly undo the valve unions to release the air, until water comes out. Tighten up union then re-hang.

Was quite lucky that I had enough play in the pipes (but still had to briefly release unions when hung to reset valves to vertical then re-tighten) but if not you could leave unions semi loose to re-tilt it vertical and as long as the CH is pressurised (and leaking from unions) you wont lose the water level in rad.

Astonishingly it worked and got the water (felt by the heat) up to about 80% of the rad height.

Typical DIY type roller-coaster day, easy 5 minute bleed job turns into suicide inducing despair then (unusually for me) an uncannily successful result!


Mmm how many times have you done that since though? this one is a
regular air locker. If it was "normal" I'd fit one of those "auto
bleed vent" jobbies....

I have a number of rads where the bleed valve has jammed, I have not yet
found a way to free them. However One of them needed bleeding, so I took
it off then took the rad to A metal basher. He cut a hole and welded in
an new valve, it works fine. I would replace the radiators but the sizes
are no longer available, so it would me an extensive reworking of the
piping.

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:11:09 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

How about ignoring the stuck bleed valve, and fitting a T to the pipework with a
bleed valve suitable placed nearby, maybe at the op of a vertical bit of pipe?


Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:11:09 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

How about ignoring the stuck bleed valve, and fitting a T to the pipework with a
bleed valve suitable placed nearby, maybe at the op of a vertical bit of pipe?



How is that going to bleed trapped air out of the top of a radiator?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:33:38 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

How is that going to bleed trapped air out of the top of a radiator?

http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Air_Bl...stallation.php
http://inspectapedia.com/heat/AirBleedValve111DJFs.jpg

Thomas Prufer

Thomas Prufer Wrote in message:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:33:38 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

How is that going to bleed trapped air out of the top of a radiator?

http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Air_Bl...stallation.php
http://inspectapedia.com/heat/AirBleedValve111DJFs.jpg

Thomas Prufer


Er... 2nd looks fxxked,
1st refers to a baseboard heating system (ie skirting height rads
to us). Not sure that would apply to this situation, as this rad
is the usual 600mm tall...

--
Jim K


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 12:33:38 -0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

How is that going to bleed trapped air out of the top of a radiator?

http://inspectapedia.com/heat/Air_Bl...stallation.php
http://inspectapedia.com/heat/AirBleedValve111DJFs.jpg

Thomas Prufer


In my experience the vast majority of domestic radiators are plumbed via
the two bottom ports, not "cross flow" across diagonally opposite ports.
With "normal" plumbing, your valve isn't gonna help.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/11/16 12:10, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 18:11:09 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

How about ignoring the stuck bleed valve, and fitting a T to the pipework with a
bleed valve suitable placed nearby, maybe at the op of a vertical bit of pipe?


Thomas Prufer

that doesn't get air trapped in the rad out again

Although it might stop it happening again.
--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

jim wrote:

a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug
like "normal"..

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

TIA


Mum and Dad had one with the flats rounded off, and the bleed valve was
(annoyingly) facing the wall, so you couldn't even try to get the
pointy-nosed pliers in. But new radiators don't cost much nowadays.

In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
jim wrote:

a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug
like "normal"..

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

TIA


Mum and Dad had one with the flats rounded off, and the bleed valve was
(annoyingly) facing the wall, so you couldn't even try to get the
pointy-nosed pliers in. But new radiators don't cost much nowadays.

I have 3 radiators with the bleed screw at the back. No problem with access
using a proper radiator key.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

charles wrote:

I have 3 radiators with the bleed screw at the back. No problem with
access using a proper radiator key.

unless it jams solid and/or gets rounded-off

charles wrote:
In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
jim wrote:

a rad bleed valve is knacked & it's on one of those rads where
it's tapped straight into the rad, not as part of a screw in plug
like "normal"..

What are the odds of successfully drilling & tapping a new bleed
valve into the rad? Or is it time for a new "normal" rad? Or
something else?

TIA


Mum and Dad had one with the flats rounded off, and the bleed valve was
(annoyingly) facing the wall, so you couldn't even try to get the
pointy-nosed pliers in. But new radiators don't cost much nowadays.

I have 3 radiators with the bleed screw at the back. No problem with access
using a proper radiator key.


It was only a problem when the head rounded off, and a key wouldn't turn
it any more. Mum/Dad shouldn't have let it get that bad, but don't
really pay enough attention to that sort of thing :-)

"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
news
I have 3 radiators with the bleed screw at the back. No problem with
access
using a proper radiator key.


It was only a problem when the head rounded off, and a key wouldn't turn
it any more. Mum/Dad shouldn't have let it get that bad, but don't really
pay enough attention to that sort of thing :-)

The problem arises when the screw thread for loosening the valve gets
corroded and the metal of the square head is so soft that it round off
before you can exert sufficient force to loosen the valve. If you've
squirted WD40 into the thread and that hasn't helped, there's not a lot you
can do if the valve is stuck more firmly than the strength of the head.

I had a similar problem, of not being able to supply enough force before
something else failed, when I came to release the spare wheel on my car to
change a flat tyre. The wheel was held in a wire cage under the floor which
was secured by a long bolt through the floor of the boot which threaded onto
a captive nut in the cage. Now any sensible manufacturer would have given
that bolt a hexagonal head of the same size as the wheel nuts, so you could
use the wheelbrace to undo it. But Peugeot had give the bolt a deep groove
and you used the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a very crude flat-headed
screwdriver. This was asking for trouble: if the thread and nut start to
bind, and WD40 doesn't free it, you can't get enough purchase on the "screw
head" before the wheelbrace "screwdriver" slips out of the head. Grrrrr. I
felt a right wimp having to call out the RAC for this, when the rest of the
wheel-changing process is a doddle.

I've also had it with rawlplug-type wall fastenings. The screws that were
supplied with the rawlplugs were made of such soft metal that the cross-head
started to round off before I'd been able to screw the screws far enough
into the rawlplugs to fasten the shelves securely onto the wall. I had to
drill out each screwhead, pull the shelves off the wall and then grip the
shank of each screw with Mole grips to extract it, before I could use some
better screws made of something stronger than cream cheese :-) Given that
fact that the original screws were a golden colour, I wonder if they were
made of brass rather than hardened steel that had been given a brass
coasting, as I assumed when I bought them. If they were brass, they were as
useful as a chocolate teapot. Fortunately B&Q refunded my money and said
that I was not the first person to complain about them.

NY wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
news
I have 3 radiators with the bleed screw at the back. No problem with
access
using a proper radiator key.


It was only a problem when the head rounded off, and a key wouldn't
turn it any more. Mum/Dad shouldn't have let it get that bad, but
don't really pay enough attention to that sort of thing :-)

The problem arises when the screw thread for loosening the valve gets
corroded and the metal of the square head is so soft that it round off
before you can exert sufficient force to loosen the valve. If you've
squirted WD40 into the thread and that hasn't helped, there's not a lot
you can do if the valve is stuck more firmly than the strength of the head.

I think also that people tend to overtighten things. Said mum and dad
are always crushing tap washers. I think there's a lot to be said for
thinking about every tiny thing you do, just because it will save
trouble later. Of course, you may then become a bit of an obsessive :-)

The problem with this one single radiator valve they had that faced the
wall was that once it could no longer be opened with the key, there was
no room to try anything else.

I had a similar problem, of not being able to supply enough force before
something else failed, when I came to release the spare wheel on my car
to change a flat tyre. The wheel was held in a wire cage under the floor
which was secured by a long bolt through the floor of the boot which
threaded onto a captive nut in the cage. Now any sensible manufacturer
would have given that bolt a hexagonal head of the same size as the
wheel nuts, so you could use the wheelbrace to undo it. But Peugeot had
give the bolt a deep groove and you used the flattened end of the
wheelbrace as a very crude flat-headed screwdriver. This was asking for
trouble: if the thread and nut start to bind, and WD40 doesn't free it,
you can't get enough purchase on the "screw head" before the wheelbrace
"screwdriver" slips out of the head. Grrrrr. I felt a right wimp having
to call out the RAC for this, when the rest of the wheel-changing
process is a doddle.

You wonder if the people who design some things give any thought to the
poor sods who have to use them :-)

I've also had it with rawlplug-type wall fastenings. The screws that
were supplied with the rawlplugs were made of such soft metal that the
cross-head started to round off before I'd been able to screw the screws
far enough into the rawlplugs to fasten the shelves securely onto the
wall. I had to drill out each screwhead, pull the shelves off the wall
and then grip the shank of each screw with Mole grips to extract it,
before I could use some better screws made of something stronger than
cream cheese :-) Given that fact that the original screws were a golden
colour, I wonder if they were made of brass rather than hardened steel
that had been given a brass coasting, as I assumed when I bought them.
If they were brass, they were as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Fortunately B&Q refunded my money and said that I was not the first
person to complain about them.

There's nothing worse than cross-head screws made out of cheese :-)

On 11/11/16 13:10, NY wrote:
Given that fact that the original screws were a golden colour, I wonder
if they were made of brass rather than hardened steel that had been
given a brass coasting, as I assumed when I bought them. If they were
brass, they were as useful as a chocolate teapot. Fortunately B&Q ref

Brass is not soft. Its hard.

'Golden' screws are zinc + passivation on steel.

And, by the sound of it steel as mild as tesco's cheddar...

--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler