I touched one of my electrical sockets the other day and could feel
electricity (they have metal covers). It wasn't powerful enough to hurt
like it did when I touched the live wire to the cooker, but it was
fairly strong and I could feel the 50hz.

Been trying all day today and I can't electrocute myself this time, darn
it. What could the fault possibly have been? I've unscrewed the thing
and everything seems to be firmly attached inside including the earth
loop. The adjacent socket didn't have the same problem, although I
wondered whether I might have been touching something else that's live
and was just creating a circuit by touching the socket. But nothing
seems a likely candidate.

Any ideas greatly appreciated. (Obviously I'm keen to sort this out and
don't really take electrical safety lightly!)

I touched one of my electrical sockets the other day and could feel
electricity (they have metal covers). It wasn't powerful enough to hurt
like it did when I touched the live wire to the cooker, but it was
fairly strong and I could feel the 50hz.
snip
Any ideas greatly appreciated. (Obviously I'm keen to sort this out and
don't really take electrical safety lightly!)

Do you know what sort of electricity supply you have to your premises ?
(are you fed from overhead lines or cables clipped along a row of houses
or is the cable underground for as far as the eye can see)

Bear in mind that electricity companies are not legally obliged to
provide an earth, and in many cases may not be able to provide one for
one of several reasons:

- structures of a temporary nature (portacabins etc)
- farms or where livestock are held
- overhead lines often don`t have an earth provision
- same goes for clipped (sometimes known as cleated or mural) wiring
- network conditions may not allow... one area nearby has a "tidal" earth
where the area is essentially built on sand. When the tide comes in you
get a great earth, but when it goes out again...

Do you have any sort of safety devices fitted, like an RCD ? - if you
have an older type of device it might be worth getting that replaced for
a start (my knowledge is a little weak in this area).

When you had the front of the socket off, did you notice any damage to
the insulation ? (sometimes cables can be pressed hard against each other
damaging the insulation)

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Colin Wilson wrote:
Do you know what sort of electricity supply you have to your premises ?
(are you fed from overhead lines or cables clipped along a row of houses
or is the cable underground for as far as the eye can see)

No overhead lines around here -- very urban. The city's main substation
is less than a mile away.

Bear in mind that electricity companies are not legally obliged to
provide an earth, and in many cases may not be able to provide one for
one of several reasons:

It's a converted mid-victorian terrace flat. The wiring in the flat is
great but the part downstairs where the metres are is very old and dodgy
so there could be anything going on.

- same goes for clipped (sometimes known as cleated or mural) wiring

Is that something old? Could be that if so.

Do you have any sort of safety devices fitted, like an RCD ? - if you
have an older type of device it might be worth getting that replaced for
a start (my knowledge is a little weak in this area).

No I don't have an RCD but I thinking I really need one. They are just
installed in series before the consumer unit aren't they, sounds like an
easy job?

When you had the front of the socket off, did you notice any damage to
the insulation ? (sometimes cables can be pressed hard against each other
damaging the insulation)

I'll have another check tomorrow when I'm more sober.......

Thanks for your help

No overhead lines around here -- very urban. The city's main substation
is less than a mile away.

Doesn`t mean the mains in the area aren`t old and provide you with an
earth...

It's a converted mid-victorian terrace flat. The wiring in the flat is
great but the part downstairs where the metres are is very old and dodgy
so there could be anything going on.

Are you paying rent, or is it privately owned ? - i`m wondering whether a
landlord might have any responsibility for wiring. The submain will
probably belong to the landlord and not the electricity company, and it
isn`t unknown for these to fail. As the electricity supplier isn`t
obliged to provide an earth, it will probably be the landlords
responsibility to make sure adequate provision is in place. Not sure what
the hell you`d need to do it its privately owned :-}

- same goes for clipped (sometimes known as cleated or mural) wiring
Is that something old? Could be that if so.

You`d see it clipped along the front of the houses adjacent i`d guess...

No I don't have an RCD but I thinking I really need one. They are just
installed in series before the consumer unit aren't they, sounds like an
easy job?

Where`s your consumer unit (fuse board) - i`m guessing its in the flat.

The ideal way would probably be to fit a new consumer unit that can split
the load into RCD protected and non-RCD protected (lights are generally
better off non-RCD protected from what I remember of sparking, but its
been a while :-} )

If you are paying rent though, i`d report it to the landlord and ask him
to get it checked out.

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No I don't have an RCD but I thinking I really need one. They are just
installed in series before the consumer unit aren't they, sounds like an
easy job?

Where`s your consumer unit (fuse board) - i`m guessing its in the flat.

The ideal way would probably be to fit a new consumer unit that can split
the load into RCD protected and non-RCD protected (lights are generally
better off non-RCD protected from what I remember of sparking, but its
been a while :-} )

If you're in a 1st floor flat then you dont really need an RCD for
anything other than the shower. The RCD is required for socket outlets
that are reasonably expected to supply portable equipment for use
outdoors. Not all that likely in an upstairs flat.


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

If you're in a 1st floor flat then you dont really need an RCD for
anything other than the shower. The RCD is required for socket outlets
that are reasonably expected to supply portable equipment for use
outdoors. Not all that likely in an upstairs flat.

What about leakage through the consumer to any bonded pipework etc ?

At least the RCD would trip rather than still being potentially fatal.

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"Haddock" wrote in message
...

I touched one of my electrical sockets the other day and could feel
electricity (they have metal covers). It wasn't powerful enough to hurt
like it did when I touched the live wire to the cooker, but it was
fairly strong and I could feel the 50hz.

Been trying all day today and I can't electrocute myself this time, darn
it. What could the fault possibly have been? I've unscrewed the thing
and everything seems to be firmly attached inside including the earth
loop. The adjacent socket didn't have the same problem, although I
wondered whether I might have been touching something else that's live
and was just creating a circuit by touching the socket. But nothing
seems a likely candidate.

Any ideas greatly appreciated. (Obviously I'm keen to sort this out and
don't really take electrical safety lightly!)

If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have been
static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being drawn away to
earth through the socket cover.


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If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have been
static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being drawn away
to
earth through the socket cover.

and in particular brown nylon y-fronts.
If this is what you're wearing then go back and lick the cooker wires and
get out of the gene pool.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 21:53:06 UTC, "Suz" wrote:


If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have been
static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being drawn away
to
earth through the socket cover.

and in particular brown nylon y-fronts.

Much safer wearing green ones with yellow stripes....

--
Bob Eager
begin by not using Outlook Express...

In article , BigWallop
writes

"Haddock" wrote in message
...

I touched one of my electrical sockets the other day and could feel
electricity (they have metal covers). It wasn't powerful enough to hurt
like it did when I touched the live wire to the cooker, but it was
fairly strong and I could feel the 50hz.

Been trying all day today and I can't electrocute myself this time, darn
it. What could the fault possibly have been? I've unscrewed the thing
and everything seems to be firmly attached inside including the earth
loop. The adjacent socket didn't have the same problem, although I
wondered whether I might have been touching something else that's live
and was just creating a circuit by touching the socket. But nothing
seems a likely candidate.

Any ideas greatly appreciated. (Obviously I'm keen to sort this out and
don't really take electrical safety lightly!)

If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have been
static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being drawn away to
earth through the socket cover.

Unlikely to be static because:-
I could feel the 50hz.
I have not yet come across 50Hz static.

I would be tempted to check that both sockets are properly earthed, both
the one you touched and the adjacent one. Checking that they are both at
the same potential with an ohm meter would be a good start. Try it on ac
volts first of all. It is not unheard of for earth wire to become
disconnected elsewhere in the circuit and this would not at first be
apparent as it would not stop appliances from working.
Best of luck and take care.




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-- Bill

In uk.d-i-y, BigWallop wrote:

If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have been
static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being drawn away to
earth through the socket cover.

No chance. Static builds up to si high a voltage that even with several
megaohms in the path to earth, it discharges damn quickly, and won't give
any kind of "sustained 50Hz tingle" like wot our original poster got. (And
if there was that kind of resistance in the path to earth, the socket's
earth connection's not exactly in order!).

From the details given, there's a (possibly intermittent) fault which needs
sorting out. It's not clear from what we've heard whether the socket was
the source of the 'tingle', with mains current passing through the OP's
body on its way to earth, or its 'sink' - for example, if there's a
floorboard nail which is just about contact with a live (only), and the OP
stands on it, the surrounding floorboards won't give a decent path to
earth so our man won't feel anything; but touching a well-earthed point
- the socket cover if all the wiring's in order - creates a path to earth
which our man can feel. (In such a case the strength of the 'tingle' is
much dependant on how effective a contact he has with the source: do a
trick like this in bare feet and you might not wake up at all :-(

Other uglies can happen with TV/video/sat etc. kit: some of these have
two-pin mains connectors, and then internal circuitry which makes the
aerial outer float to halfway between the live and neutral voltages. The
resistance is high enough not to make the amount of current which flows
dangerous to life, but you still feel a real and unpleasant tingle if
you become the earth path for this voltage.

I'd definitely want to know what caused the 'tingle': what's an unpleasant
weirdness on one occasion can become something much more dangerous next
time.

Stefek

wrote:


Other uglies can happen with TV/video/sat etc. kit: some of these have
two-pin mains connectors, and then internal circuitry which makes the
aerial outer float to halfway between the live and neutral voltages.
The resistance is high enough not to make the amount of current which
flows dangerous to life, but you still feel a real and unpleasant
tingle if
you become the earth path for this voltage.


My DVD player does this. If you touch the metal casing you get a very
faint tingle. The metal mag-mount aerial I used to have on a mobile
phone used to do it too if the phone was plugged into the charger, even
if the phone itself was off.

I assume that the casing/0v DC side of these things isn't really 0v. A
normal 4-diode rectifier won't give a flat 0v DC but more of a ----
which means if the 0v isn't really 0v relative to your own body's
potential you'll feel the pulsing.

Interestingly, since I put a TV card in the computer (in another room)
and connected the aerial lead into that (earthed chassis) the DVD player
which is hooked up to the TV which is hooked up to the same aerial
arrangement no longer gives me that tingle. If I remove the aerial lead
from the PC the effect comes back!

In uk.d-i-y, R W wrote:

Interestingly, since I put a TV card in the computer (in another room)
and connected the aerial lead into that (earthed chassis) the DVD player
which is hooked up to the TV which is hooked up to the same aerial
arrangement no longer gives me that tingle. If I remove the aerial lead
from the PC the effect comes back!

Yes - you're then passing a small leakage current from your DVD player to
the house earth through the aerial lead and the chassis of your PeeCee.
(And if the DVD is on an RCD socket, that leakage is bringing the RCD a
little closer to its tripping threshold; though the current is likely
to be under a milliamp, so on its own it's a long way from causing an
RCD trip.

I'd be surprised if the circuitry responsible for the leakage was as far
'inside' as a bridge rectifier on the low-voltage side, though: more
likely suppression components on the live side of a switch-mode PSU.
But I'm a software type by profession, not an EE, so this is hobbyist-level
guesswork rather than certified circuit designer's opinion ;-)

Stefek

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
If it was just a tingle, for a second or so, then it could just have
been static building up on your clothes (nylon underwear) and being
drawn away to earth through the socket cover.


But you don't get a tingle from static - it's a sharp shock which then
stops. A 'leak' of any sort from the mains carries on.

--
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn