Our new worktop (one of those black high-gloss finishes) has swollen a
little, around a joint next to the sink. The swelling isn't too bad, but
with the surface being high-gloss, when you stand back and survey the new
kitchen, it stands out like the Matterhorn would if you moved it to East
Anglia.
The joint was obviously not sealed adequately (just one of many poorly-done
jobs by our builder). Is it too late to do anything about it? I'm sure it
is, but I may as well ask!
Thanks.

On 29/12/2003 Steve a wrote :
Our new worktop (one of those black high-gloss finishes) has swollen a
little, around a joint next to the sink. The swelling isn't too bad, but
with the surface being high-gloss, when you stand back and survey the new
kitchen, it stands out like the Matterhorn would if you moved it to East
Anglia.

You certainly will not be able to improve it, though might be able to
prevent it getting worse....

I would be inclined to lift the sink out, spread silicon sealant around
the cut edge to seal it, then cleanup and reseal the sink.

If the house is still under guarantee have the builder replace the
entire worktop FOC.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org

"Steve" wrote:

Our new worktop (one of those black high-gloss finishes) has swollen a
little, around a joint next to the sink. The swelling isn't too bad, but
with the surface being high-gloss, when you stand back and survey the new
kitchen, it stands out like the Matterhorn would if you moved it to East
Anglia.
The joint was obviously not sealed adequately (just one of many poorly-done
jobs by our builder). Is it too late to do anything about it? I'm sure it
is, but I may as well ask!
Thanks.

Why too late? Get the builder back and demand he replaces the worktop
and fixes it properly this time. If the worktop is being damaged by
his poor fitting, then why should you suffer.

Do not try and fix this yourself yet as this will give the builder the
excuse that you broke the seal etc and you are at fault. Either way
act fast before it gets worse.

Richard

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message
. uk...
On 29/12/2003 Steve a wrote :
Our new worktop (one of those black high-gloss finishes) has swollen a
little, around a joint next to the sink. The swelling isn't too bad, but
with the surface being high-gloss, when you stand back and survey the
new
kitchen, it stands out like the Matterhorn would if you moved it to East
Anglia.

You certainly will not be able to improve it, though might be able to
prevent it getting worse....

I would be inclined to lift the sink out, spread silicon sealant around
the cut edge to seal it, then cleanup and reseal the sink.

If the house is still under guarantee have the builder replace the
entire worktop FOC.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (Lap)
http://www.ukradioamateur.org


Do you know what it's made from? or what make it is?

Thanks

Chris

"Richard" wrote in message

Why too late? Get the builder back and demand he replaces the worktop
and fixes it properly this time. If the worktop is being damaged by
his poor fitting, then why should you suffer.

I guess you're right, but we really don't want all the hassle and mess all
over again, and besides that, the builder was a friend of a friend, and the
job was a cash-in-hand one. Do I actually have any comeback, legally?
My friend is now an ex-friend (he is the builder's labourer), and to be
honest I would prefer not to have them back in our house, though I'll have
to talk this over with my wife... we may call him yet.

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:00:42 -0000, "Steve"
wrote:


"Richard" wrote in message

Why too late? Get the builder back and demand he replaces the worktop
and fixes it properly this time. If the worktop is being damaged by
his poor fitting, then why should you suffer.

I guess you're right, but we really don't want all the hassle and mess all
over again, and besides that, the builder was a friend of a friend, and the
job was a cash-in-hand one. Do I actually have any comeback, legally?

You would really need to check with Trading Standards at the local
authority about that. One obvious problem is that presumably you
don't have a receipt.?? This may make life difficult if you needed
to prove that he did the work. On the other hand, if this was a cash
job and the people concerned are not declaring it for tax purposes,
then they probably would not want to see the matter raised in a court
of law.


My friend is now an ex-friend (he is the builder's labourer), and to be
honest I would prefer not to have them back in our house, though I'll have
to talk this over with my wife... we may call him yet.


This may turn out to be the biggest issue. They made a mess of the
job once, what is to say that they would not do so again.

My gut feel would be to chalk this one up to experience and get the
worktop replaced by a competent kitchen fitter if you can't DIY it.

While on the subject of the builder, is the rest of the work
satisfactory? Was anything done that requires a Building Regulations
application or planning permission? If so was that obtained? I
only make the point because if there was no paper trail with regard to
payment then could it have happened in other ways as well? This is
important, not so much because I am in any way an advocate in
involving officialdom in things but because you could have a problem
if you want to sell the property later and the documentation if it was
required is not in place. This can be resolved, but in view of the
kitchen situation, time may be important.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 02:00:42 -0000, "Steve"
wrote:

I guess you're right, but we really don't want all the hassle and mess all
over again, and besides that, the builder was a friend of a friend, and the
job was a cash-in-hand one. Do I actually have any comeback, legally?
My friend is now an ex-friend (he is the builder's labourer), and to be
honest I would prefer not to have them back in our house, though I'll have
to talk this over with my wife... we may call him yet.

One of the things I am beginning to learn by experience is not to do
jobs for friends. It's not that the job won't be done to an acceptable
standard, but I find it makes it all too easy to provide a discount
"for a mate", and I end up paying the price.

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader
will result in your own email address being instantly
added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to
contact me try changing the prefix in the given email
address to my newsgroup posting name.....

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

My gut feel would be to chalk this one up to experience and get the
worktop replaced by a competent kitchen fitter if you can't DIY it.

Yes, this is what we're going to do. This morning, the swelling doesn't look
as bad - perhaps it has dried out a little. Its still there, but we're going
to seal the joint better, and accept it. When we chose this worktop, we
figured on having to replace it sooner than a normal worktop anyway (though
not after 2 months!) as it does seem to scratch rather easily if you're not
careful. We'll get someone reputable next time.

While on the subject of the builder, is the rest of the work
satisfactory? Was anything done that requires a Building Regulations
application or planning permission?

No building regs or permissions were required for anything we've had done,
as far as we know- it was all minor works really. A wall was knocked down,
but it wasn't a supporting one. The back doorway was enlarged to take a
large window, and a window opening was extended to the floor to take patio
doors.

Most of the work is fine, but there are some details that have disappointed
us.
The builder made a channel in the floor to take the new wiring. I expressed
concern about it at the time, but he said he'd place metal capping over it
before concreting it in.
I later had to chisel off an area of this concrete when tiling the floor,
and guess what... no metal capping. The wires are about 40mm below the
surface of the tiles.
The wiring to the mains-sockets is just plastered into the wall. I've since
been told they should be in conduit. Its too late now!

Thanks for your reply Andy.

"Chris" wrote in message

Do you know what it's made from? or what make it is?

Its some sort of chipboard I think, with a very high-gloss laminate. Its by
Axiom Worksurface Solutions.
Wife has suggested trying an iron, protected by cloth, to try to smooth out
the swelling, but I'm not sure about that.

"Harry Bloomfield" wrote in message

You certainly will not be able to improve it, though might be able to
prevent it getting worse....

I would be inclined to lift the sink out, spread silicon sealant around
the cut edge to seal it, then cleanup and reseal the sink.

The problem isn't around the sink. Its the joining of the worktop to the
breakfast-bar, which is an inch or two from the side of the sink.
As I've just said in another reply, my wife has suggested using an iron, but
I thnk I'd prefer to leave it alone. The swelling seems a little better than
yesterday.

"Steve" wrote
| While on the subject of the builder, is the rest of the work
| satisfactory? Was anything done that requires a Building Regulations
| application or planning permission?
| No building regs or permissions were required for anything we've had done,
| as far as we know- it was all minor works really. #

* A wall was knocked down,
* The back doorway was enlarged to take a large window,
* a window opening was extended to the floor to take patio doors.

AIUI all these may or will require a Building Regs application in England
and Wales (eg the windows will depend on whether you use a FENSA registered
contractor who can self-certify)

Owain

One of the things I am beginning to learn by experience is not to do
jobs for friends. It's not that the job won't be done to an acceptable
standard, but I find it makes it all too easy to provide a discount
"for a mate", and I end up paying the price.

PoP

A lesson I learned a long time ago but occasionally have weak moments and
say yes

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:58:13 -0000, "Steve"
wrote:

The problem isn't around the sink. Its the joining of the worktop to the
breakfast-bar, which is an inch or two from the side of the sink.
As I've just said in another reply, my wife has suggested using an iron, but
I thnk I'd prefer to leave it alone. The swelling seems a little better than
yesterday.

I don't rate your chances that high of rescuing this worktop. Once it
has suffered from water ingress then swelling is a natural reaction.

One possible thing which could be tried for a swollen worktop would be
to use some G cramps holding a stout piece of timber either side so as
to compress it back into shape as it dries out.

However, it's probable you don't have the necessary access to the
worktop area you need to facililtate this repair.

Your average kitchen worktop isn't that expensive so I'd go down the
route of replacing rather than repairing. Bad time of year to be
considering that though - you'd probably be cutting outside and with
the cold climate that isn't the greatest idea.

PoP

Replying to the email address given by my news reader
will result in your own email address being instantly
added to my anti-spam database! If you really want to
contact me try changing the prefix in the given email
address to my newsgroup posting name.....

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 13:50:31 -0000, "Steve"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

My gut feel would be to chalk this one up to experience and get the
worktop replaced by a competent kitchen fitter if you can't DIY it.

Yes, this is what we're going to do. This morning, the swelling doesn't look
as bad - perhaps it has dried out a little. Its still there, but we're going
to seal the joint better, and accept it.

Certainly I wouldn't use the iron idea, or certainly not steam.
Chipboard swells wih moisture which is what has happened here. I
suspect that the best you can hope for is to stabilise the situation.
I'm wondering whether getting something into the gap that will soak
into the board without swelling it but will exclude the water would
work. I'm thinking of something like a thinned out spirit based
varnish or something like that. I would practice on the end of some
scrap chipboard before you try this though. There may be better
solutions as well.

An iron with steam does work really well on natural wood surfaces that
have been compressed in some way. I've just been cutting some beech
worktops for a desk for my office and there are one or two very slight
indent marks on the surface. A steam iron and a teatowel did a great
job of fixing this. The grain swells and recovers the original
shape.

However, this is not what you need for your worktop. I would also be
concerned about the laminate cracking when heat is applied after the
mechanical movement that has happened.



When we chose this worktop, we
figured on having to replace it sooner than a normal worktop anyway (though
not after 2 months!) as it does seem to scratch rather easily if you're not
careful. We'll get someone reputable next time.

A high gloss laminate is going to show every blemish unfortunately.




While on the subject of the builder, is the rest of the work
satisfactory? Was anything done that requires a Building Regulations
application or planning permission?

No building regs or permissions were required for anything we've had done,
as far as we know- it was all minor works really. A wall was knocked down,
but it wasn't a supporting one. The back doorway was enlarged to take a
large window, and a window opening was extended to the floor to take patio
doors.

If new windows or doors were fitted, then they must conform to certain
standards for heat loss (double glazed, probably low emissivity glass)
and for the doors be toughened or laminated. This is in part I and
part L1 of the Building Regulations, IIRC. To comply, you either
have to employ a contractor who is registered with FENSA, or submit a
building notice to the local authority building control. You can
check with FENSA as to whether the builder is registered.

In all likelihood, the window and door used is technically compliant -
you could check with the manufacturer - but strictly speaking, if the
builder was not FENSA registered, you need to do a regularisation
exercise at the local authority. Realistically, nobody is likely to
come around and clap you in irons if you don't; - the rub comes when
you try to sell the house. You will be asked by a buyer's solicitor
whether any controlled works have been done, and will have to answer
that they have. A surveyor might spot it anyway.

Most of the work is fine, but there are some details that have disappointed
us.
The builder made a channel in the floor to take the new wiring. I expressed
concern about it at the time, but he said he'd place metal capping over it
before concreting it in.
I later had to chisel off an area of this concrete when tiling the floor,
and guess what... no metal capping. The wires are about 40mm below the
surface of the tiles.

They need to be at least 50mm to not need metal capping - and it does
need to be substantial.


The wiring to the mains-sockets is just plastered into the wall. I've since
been told they should be in conduit. Its too late now!

As long as the cables run vertically or horizontally the whole way
from the sockets you don't need to have conduit or covering. It is
also permissible to run cables buried only in plaster in vertical
bands 150mm from room corners and horizontal ones 150mm from the tops
of walls. You can't use the corresponding band 150mm up from the
floor (i.e. behind where skirtings go.)

In fact, solid metal conduits require that the ratings of cables are
recalculated because the conduit reduces the rate at which heat can be
dissipated from the cables.



Thanks for your reply Andy.


..andy

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