Let me start by saying that central heating systems are a black art to
me. Ours is a conventional oil fired boiler supplying DHW and three
traditional wet radiator zones. Two zones are working, but the third is
not, and has not been used for two or possibly three years.

The zone valves are Honeywell, with a silver box on top, and having read
that the protruding lever should have resistance when the heating is
off, and no resistance when on, I have found the offending valve. There
are three valves in total, presumably one for each zone. Just one pump,
too.

I've taken the top off the silver box (one screw) and can see the
actuator, but beyond that? Will tapping the actuator or the valve or
anything else release it? I guess it is stuck because it hasn't been
used. Can the actuator be changed without water pouring out?
--
Graeme

If you select "images" after typing honeywell 3 port actuator into
Yahoo, it should make things fairly clear.

I believe the synchronous motor holds the valve position against the
stop by means of a constant "stall current" which affects the
reliability of the motor. The motor is available as a seperate item.


AB


On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 13:43:49 +0100, Graeme
wrote:


Let me start by saying that central heating systems are a black art to
me. Ours is a conventional oil fired boiler supplying DHW and three
traditional wet radiator zones. Two zones are working, but the third is
not, and has not been used for two or possibly three years.

The zone valves are Honeywell, with a silver box on top, and having read
that the protruding lever should have resistance when the heating is
off, and no resistance when on, I have found the offending valve. There
are three valves in total, presumably one for each zone. Just one pump,
too.

I've taken the top off the silver box (one screw) and can see the
actuator, but beyond that? Will tapping the actuator or the valve or
anything else release it? I guess it is stuck because it hasn't been
used. Can the actuator be changed without water pouring out?

In message , Archibald
Tarquin Blenkinsopp writes
If you select "images" after typing honeywell 3 port actuator into
Yahoo, it should make things fairly clear.

My valves are 2 port not 3 port, but I see what you mean. Thank you.

Thinking about it, just changing the actuator is not going to help if
the valve itself has stuck. Bugger.

--
Graeme

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Archibald Tarquin
Blenkinsopp writes
If you select "images" after typing honeywell 3 port actuator into
Yahoo, it should make things fairly clear.

My valves are 2 port not 3 port, but I see what you mean. Thank you.

Thinking about it, just changing the actuator is not going to help if the
valve itself has stuck. Bugger.

Well if you cannot open it manually then it is buggered. I assume that the
programmer and stat are calling for heat.



--
Adam

On 11-Sep-16 1:43 PM, Graeme wrote:

Let me start by saying that central heating systems are a black art to
me. Ours is a conventional oil fired boiler supplying DHW and three
traditional wet radiator zones. Two zones are working, but the third is
not, and has not been used for two or possibly three years.

The zone valves are Honeywell, with a silver box on top, and having read
that the protruding lever should have resistance when the heating is
off, and no resistance when on, I have found the offending valve. There
are three valves in total, presumably one for each zone. Just one pump,
too.

I've taken the top off the silver box (one screw) and can see the
actuator, but beyond that? Will tapping the actuator or the valve or
anything else release it? I guess it is stuck because it hasn't been
used. Can the actuator be changed without water pouring out?

If you unclip the silver box (probably twist it) you will see the top of
the valve. There's probably a prong sticking up. You should be able to
free it up. It may well stay free until next summer.


You can get kits to change the innards of the valve, but it does require
draining down the system.

In message , ARW
writes
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

Thinking about it, just changing the actuator is not going to help if
the valve itself has stuck. Bugger.

Well if you cannot open it manually then it is buggered.

But which part? The actuator or the valve?

I assume that the programmer and stat are calling for heat.

Yes.
--
Graeme

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 14:02:31 +0100
Graeme wrote:

In message , Archibald
Tarquin Blenkinsopp writes
If you select "images" after typing honeywell 3 port actuator into
Yahoo, it should make things fairly clear.

My valves are 2 port not 3 port, but I see what you mean. Thank you.

Thinking about it, just changing the actuator is not going to help if
the valve itself has stuck. Bugger.


Let's go back to basics.

You say that you have identified the offending valve. Do you mean
that it should be powered, therefore open, and so should have no
resistance on the manual lever, but that it does have resistance,
indicating that it is still closed?

If so, can you move the lever against the resistance, thereby opening
the valve? There should be a little catch so that you can lock it in
the open position. Does doing this allow hot water through the zone?

If not, why do you think this is the defective valve?

Approaching this logically should give us the answer.

Do you have a voltmeter, and the ability to use it safely? I am not
being funny, I don't want you to electrocute yourself.

--
Davey.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , ARW
writes
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

Thinking about it, just changing the actuator is not going to help if
the valve itself has stuck. Bugger.

Well if you cannot open it manually then it is buggered.

But which part? The actuator or the valve?

I assume that the programmer and stat are calling for heat.

Yes.

Well the simple test is to try the actuator whilst it is removed from the
valve and see what happens.

TBH if after removing the actuator, the valve spindle will not turn with the
help of a pair of pliers then that is your answer.



--
Adam

In message , Davey
writes

Let's go back to basics.

Excellent.

You say that you have identified the offending valve. Do you mean
that it should be powered, therefore open, and so should have no
resistance on the manual lever, but that it does have resistance,
indicating that it is still closed?

It does have resistance whether or not the system is calling for heat.

If so, can you move the lever against the resistance, thereby opening
the valve? There should be a little catch so that you can lock it in
the open position. Does doing this allow hot water through the zone?

Yes! Why didn't I realise that? Anyway, yes, little catch locked, and
rads heating. I could live with that, at least for a while. This zone
heats four rads in what was our shop, attached to the side of our house.
The shop is closed and the space will be my 'hobby room', so remembering
to use that little catch to heat the place is acceptable if not perfect.

Do you have a voltmeter, and the ability to use it safely? I am not
being funny, I don't want you to electrocute yourself.

grin I'm no electrician but yes, I have a small multimeter, and can
use it for fairly straightforward stuff.
--
Graeme

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 14:53:23 +0100
Graeme wrote:


You say that you have identified the offending valve. Do you mean
that it should be powered, therefore open, and so should have no
resistance on the manual lever, but that it does have resistance,
indicating that it is still closed?

It does have resistance whether or not the system is calling for heat.


Which indicates that the actuator is not functioning, for whatever
reason, but the valve should be ok.

If so, can you move the lever against the resistance, thereby opening
the valve? There should be a little catch so that you can lock it in
the open position. Does doing this allow hot water through the
zone?

Yes! Why didn't I realise that? Anyway, yes, little catch locked,
and rads heating. I could live with that, at least for a while.
This zone heats four rads in what was our shop, attached to the side
of our house. The shop is closed and the space will be my 'hobby
room', so remembering to use that little catch to heat the place is
acceptable if not perfect.


Good so far! Now we need to find out why the actuator is not working.

Do you have a voltmeter, and the ability to use it safely? I am not
being funny, I don't want you to electrocute yourself.

grin I'm no electrician but yes, I have a small multimeter, and
can use it for fairly straightforward stuff.

You will really need a wiring diagram at this point. I expect that the
valve and wiring look something like the one shown in the 'S' Plan:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/documents/All/pdf/974.pdf


This shows that the Brown and Blue wires are the power for the valve,
so IF you can get the probes for the meter to these terminals, you
should see 240 V AC across them. If they are unreachable, then find
where the wires go to, there will most likely be a junction box of some
kind within a few feet. Try there for the same thing, and report back.

http://www.honeywelluk.com/documents...Issue%2016.pdf

shows various Plans.

--
Davey.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 15:30:40 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 14:53:23 +0100
Graeme wrote:


You say that you have identified the offending valve. Do you mean
that it should be powered, therefore open, and so should have no
resistance on the manual lever, but that it does have resistance,
indicating that it is still closed?

It does have resistance whether or not the system is calling for heat.


Which indicates that the actuator is not functioning, for whatever
reason, but the valve should be ok.

If so, can you move the lever against the resistance, thereby opening
the valve? There should be a little catch so that you can lock it in
the open position. Does doing this allow hot water through the
zone?

Yes! Why didn't I realise that? Anyway, yes, little catch locked,
and rads heating. I could live with that, at least for a while.
This zone heats four rads in what was our shop, attached to the side
of our house. The shop is closed and the space will be my 'hobby
room', so remembering to use that little catch to heat the place is
acceptable if not perfect.


Good so far! Now we need to find out why the actuator is not working.

Do you have a voltmeter, and the ability to use it safely? I am not
being funny, I don't want you to electrocute yourself.

grin I'm no electrician but yes, I have a small multimeter, and
can use it for fairly straightforward stuff.

You will really need a wiring diagram at this point. I expect that the
valve and wiring look something like the one shown in the 'S' Plan:
http://www.honeywelluk.com/documents/All/pdf/974.pdf


This shows that the Brown and Blue wires are the power for the valve,
so IF you can get the probes for the meter to these terminals, you
should see 240 V AC across them. If they are unreachable, then find
where the wires go to, there will most likely be a junction box of some
kind within a few feet. Try there for the same thing, and report back.

http://www.honeywelluk.com/documents...Issue%2016.pdf

shows various Plans.


Exactly right.
If the lever moves back very slowly when released then the wet part of
the valve is OK

If there is 240vAC across the motor when the system is calling for
heat on that zone then the motor is shagged.

Does your valve have a removable head? The early ones didn't.
In either case I wouldn't buy a replacement head or valve, as the
synchronous motor is obtainable by itself. Generic ones should be
under £10 delivered, I think I got my last ones from BES.

If there isn't 240vAC across the motor then you need to look at the
thermostat and switches that are dedicated to that zone only.




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 16:17:54 +0100
Graham. wrote:

If there isn't 240vAC across the motor then you need to look at the
thermostat and switches that are dedicated to that zone only.


And that's where a correct wiring diagram will make all the difference.
Remember that not all setups are wired correctly, though, as I found
out earlier this year.

Good luck.

--
Davey.

On 11/09/16 13:43, Graeme wrote:

Let me start by saying that central heating systems are a black art to
me. Ours is a conventional oil fired boiler supplying DHW and three
traditional wet radiator zones. Two zones are working, but the third is
not, and has not been used for two or possibly three years.

The zone valves are Honeywell, with a silver box on top, and having read
that the protruding lever should have resistance when the heating is
off, and no resistance when on, I have found the offending valve. There
are three valves in total, presumably one for each zone. Just one pump,
too.

I've taken the top off the silver box (one screw) and can see the
actuator, but beyond that? Will tapping the actuator or the valve or
anything else release it? I guess it is stuck because it hasn't been
used. Can the actuator be changed without water pouring out?


Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose a shaft
that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious plier work has been
done on it, by which time the actuator may have enough guts to turn it

If not its drain down and replace the lot time :-(

--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

On 11/09/16 14:53, Graeme wrote:
Anyway, yes, little catch locked, and rads heating.

Ok actuator is ****ed, get a new one and fit. No need to drain


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose a
shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious plier work
has been done on it, by which time the actuator may have enough guts
to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual lever
to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn it.

--
Davey.

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:27:20 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 11/09/16 14:53, Graeme wrote:
Anyway, yes, little catch locked, and rads heating.

Ok actuator is ****ed, get a new one and fit. No need to drain

Or there is no power getting to the actuator, in which case a new one
won't work either.

--
Davey.

Graeme Wrote in message:
In message , Davey
writes

Let's go back to basics.

Excellent.

You say that you have identified the offending valve. Do you mean
that it should be powered, therefore open, and so should have no
resistance on the manual lever, but that it does have resistance,
indicating that it is still closed?

It does have resistance whether or not the system is calling for heat.

If so, can you move the lever against the resistance, thereby opening
the valve? There should be a little catch so that you can lock it in
the open position. Does doing this allow hot water through the zone?

Yes! Why didn't I realise that? Anyway, yes, little catch locked, and
rads heating. I could live with that, at least for a while. This zone
heats four rads in what was our shop, attached to the side of our house.
The shop is closed and the space will be my 'hobby room', so remembering
to use that little catch to heat the place is acceptable if not perfect.

Just remember that when latched like that the internal microswitch
won't be closed so it will rely on one of the other zones (or the
DHW) to be calling for heat for the boiler & pump to
run.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , Graham.
writes

Just remember that when latched like that the internal microswitch
won't be closed so it will rely on one of the other zones (or the
DHW) to be calling for heat for the boiler & pump to
run.

I realised that, backwards :-) When I had finished fiddling yesterday,
I forgot to unlatch the little lever and realised later that the heating
for that zone had come on, with the DHW. Doh.
--
Graeme

Graeme Wrote in message:
In message , Graham.
writes

Just remember that when latched like that the internal microswitch
won't be closed so it will rely on one of the other zones (or the
DHW) to be calling for heat for the boiler & pump to
run.

I realised that, backwards :-) When I had finished fiddling yesterday,
I forgot to unlatch the little lever and realised later that the heating
for that zone had come on, with the DHW. Doh.
--
Graeme


Is there a separate thermostat, timer, or programmer for the
shop zone?
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 11/09/2016 23:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose a
shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious plier work
has been done on it, by which time the actuator may have enough guts
to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual lever
to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn it.


Not necessarily. If the wet part is stiff, the actuator may not have
enough grunt to shift it - even though you can do it with the manual lever.

The OP needs to remover the actuator, see whether it moves when it's not
on the valve, and make sure that the valve's spindle is free to turn.

Chances are that the actuator's motor has died, but it *could* just be a
partially seized valve. If so, rotating it to and fro a few times with
pliers may well free it up.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:18:31 +0100
Roger Mills wrote:

On 11/09/2016 23:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose a
shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious plier
work has been done on it, by which time the actuator may have
enough guts to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual
lever to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn it.


Not necessarily. If the wet part is stiff, the actuator may not have
enough grunt to shift it - even though you can do it with the manual
lever.

The OP needs to remover the actuator, see whether it moves when it's
not on the valve, and make sure that the valve's spindle is free to
turn.

Chances are that the actuator's motor has died, but it *could* just
be a partially seized valve. If so, rotating it to and fro a few
times with pliers may well free it up.

Before that, he needs to check that the actuator is actually getting
power.

--
Davey.

In message , Graham.
writes
Graeme Wrote in message:
In message , Graham.
writes

Just remember that when latched like that the internal microswitch
won't be closed so it will rely on one of the other zones (or the
DHW) to be calling for heat for the boiler & pump to
run.

I realised that, backwards :-) When I had finished fiddling yesterday,
I forgot to unlatch the little lever and realised later that the heating
for that zone had come on, with the DHW. Doh.

Is there a separate thermostat, timer, or programmer for the
shop zone?

There is a separate timer/programmer for each zone, but not thermostat.
I turned the shop zone programmer off and, there being no other call for
heat, the boiler stopped. What I said above is not quite true - it was
the downstairs heating coming on which caused the shop heating to also
come on.
--
Graeme

On 12/09/2016 12:12, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:18:31 +0100
Roger wrote:

On 11/09/2016 23:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose a
shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious plier
work has been done on it, by which time the actuator may have
enough guts to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual
lever to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn it.


Not necessarily. If the wet part is stiff, the actuator may not have
enough grunt to shift it - even though you can do it with the manual
lever.

The OP needs to remover the actuator, see whether it moves when it's
not on the valve, and make sure that the valve's spindle is free to
turn.

Chances are that the actuator's motor has died, but it *could* just
be a partially seized valve. If so, rotating it to and fro a few
times with pliers may well free it up.

Before that, he needs to check that the actuator is actually getting
power.


ICBW but I thought he'd already confirmed that.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:52:04 +0100
Roger Mills wrote:

On 12/09/2016 12:12, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:18:31 +0100
Roger wrote:

On 11/09/2016 23:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose
a shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious
plier work has been done on it, by which time the actuator may
have enough guts to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual
lever to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn
it.


Not necessarily. If the wet part is stiff, the actuator may not
have enough grunt to shift it - even though you can do it with the
manual lever.

The OP needs to remover the actuator, see whether it moves when
it's not on the valve, and make sure that the valve's spindle is
free to turn.

Chances are that the actuator's motor has died, but it *could* just
be a partially seized valve. If so, rotating it to and fro a few
times with pliers may well free it up.

Before that, he needs to check that the actuator is actually getting
power.


ICBW but I thought he'd already confirmed that.

Which post? I missed it if he did. I saw that he said he had a meter
available.

--
Davey.

In message , Davey
writes

And that's where a correct wiring diagram will make all the difference.
Remember that not all setups are wired correctly, though, as I found
out earlier this year.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not ignoring you, just waiting for
the weather to turn. Seems a pity to be doing indoor stuff on days like
today.
--
Graeme

In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 12/09/2016 12:12, Davey wrote:
Before that, he needs to check that the actuator is actually getting
power.

ICBW but I thought he'd already confirmed that.

Not yet, but will do.
--
Graeme

On 13/09/2016 00:21, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 22:52:04 +0100
Roger wrote:

On 12/09/2016 12:12, Davey wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 11:18:31 +0100
Roger wrote:

On 11/09/2016 23:48, Davey wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 23:25:28 +0100
The Natural wrote:

Remove the silver box off teh actual valve and you should expose
a shaft that should turn., Often it doesnt till some serious
plier work has been done on it, by which time the actuator may
have enough guts to turn it

But he has already said that it works fine when using the manual
lever to operate it, so the actuator should also be able to turn
it.


Not necessarily. If the wet part is stiff, the actuator may not
have enough grunt to shift it - even though you can do it with the
manual lever.

The OP needs to remover the actuator, see whether it moves when
it's not on the valve, and make sure that the valve's spindle is
free to turn.

Chances are that the actuator's motor has died, but it *could* just
be a partially seized valve. If so, rotating it to and fro a few
times with pliers may well free it up.

Before that, he needs to check that the actuator is actually getting
power.


ICBW but I thought he'd already confirmed that.

Which post? I missed it if he did. I saw that he said he had a meter
available.


He's now saying he didn't - so I must have imagined it. I did say ICBW .
. .
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , Davey
writes

And that's where a correct wiring diagram will make all the difference.
Remember that not all setups are wired correctly, though, as I found
out earlier this year.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not ignoring you, just waiting for
the weather to turn. Seems a pity to be doing indoor stuff on days like
today.


Normally the sort of job you can do in August:-)

We hit 30 deg today Linconshire

--
Adam

In message , ARW
writes
"Graeme" wrote in message
...

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not ignoring you, just waiting
for the weather to turn. Seems a pity to be doing indoor stuff on
days like today.

Normally the sort of job you can do in August:-)

We hit 30 deg today Linconshire

Even up here in Aberdeenshire we hit 26 which is good for mid summer!
--
Graeme

In message , Davey
writes

This shows that the Brown and Blue wires are the power for the valve,
so IF you can get the probes for the meter to these terminals, you
should see 240 V AC across them. If they are unreachable, then find
where the wires go to, there will most likely be a junction box of some
kind within a few feet. Try there for the same thing, and report back.

Right. Removed the whole actuator assembly from the valve, and the
valve spindle turns easily. Held the actuator and applied power - I'm
assuming the actuator should actuate, but it didn't so either the
actuator is dead or there is a wiring problem.

There is indeed a nearby junction box and, within, the four wires from
the actuator are connected to a four wire cable which runs to the
programmer. The wires within the junction box are all neatly connected
and insulated, so cannot get probes in, to test. Would it be OK to cut
the wires, remove the four connectors and replace with a chocolate
block, which will fit within the junction box?


--
Graeme

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 11:36:59 +0100
Graeme wrote:

In message , Davey
writes

This shows that the Brown and Blue wires are the power for the valve,
so IF you can get the probes for the meter to these terminals, you
should see 240 V AC across them. If they are unreachable, then find
where the wires go to, there will most likely be a junction box of
some kind within a few feet. Try there for the same thing, and
report back.

Right. Removed the whole actuator assembly from the valve, and the
valve spindle turns easily. Held the actuator and applied power -
I'm assuming the actuator should actuate, but it didn't so either the
actuator is dead or there is a wiring problem.

There is indeed a nearby junction box and, within, the four wires
from the actuator are connected to a four wire cable which runs to
the programmer. The wires within the junction box are all neatly
connected and insulated, so cannot get probes in, to test. Would it
be OK to cut the wires, remove the four connectors and replace with a
chocolate block, which will fit within the junction box?



Personally, I see no problem, but I'm not a qualified electrician! What
you describe is how mine is done.

Can you find the other ends of the wires that feed the junction box, at
the programmer end, and check the wires for power there? That might find
a problem, closer to its actual location.
Or maybe test the wires at the actuator?

I reckon at this point that the actuator is probably dead, but it's
worth checking as far as possible first, just in case it's not that.

--
Davey.

On 18/09/2016 11:36, Graeme wrote:
In message , Davey
writes

This shows that the Brown and Blue wires are the power for the valve,
so IF you can get the probes for the meter to these terminals, you
should see 240 V AC across them. If they are unreachable, then find
where the wires go to, there will most likely be a junction box of some
kind within a few feet. Try there for the same thing, and report back.

Right. Removed the whole actuator assembly from the valve, and the valve
spindle turns easily. Held the actuator and applied power - I'm assuming
the actuator should actuate, but it didn't so either the actuator is
dead or there is a wiring problem.

There is indeed a nearby junction box and, within, the four wires from
the actuator are connected to a four wire cable which runs to the
programmer. The wires within the junction box are all neatly connected
and insulated, so cannot get probes in, to test. Would it be OK to cut
the wires, remove the four connectors and replace with a chocolate
block, which will fit within the junction box?



Don't see why not. If - as seems likely - you end up needing to replace
the actuator, you'll need to break those connections anyway.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Davey
writes

Personally, I see no problem, but I'm not a qualified electrician! What
you describe is how mine is done.

I went ahead without waiting for a reply. Five wires, not four, one
being earth. Anyway, now joined via a choc block and 240v indeed across
the brown and blue wires.

Tried applying power whilst the actuator was off the valve, and nothing,
so looks like a new actuator. Oh well, at least the wiring connections
will be easy, now.

Will report back when actuator purchased and fitted.
--
Graeme

On 18/09/2016 13:20, Graeme wrote:
In message , Davey
writes

Personally, I see no problem, but I'm not a qualified electrician! What
you describe is how mine is done.

I went ahead without waiting for a reply. Five wires, not four, one
being earth. Anyway, now joined via a choc block and 240v indeed across
the brown and blue wires.

Tried applying power whilst the actuator was off the valve, and nothing,
so looks like a new actuator. Oh well, at least the wiring connections
will be easy, now.

Will report back when actuator purchased and fitted.

If you fancy taking it apart you may find that you only need to replace
the motor - obtainable from the likes of Screwfix for about 16 quid.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-sy...questid=290766
[Read the reviews for further info.]
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 18/09/2016 13:20, Graeme wrote:

Will report back when actuator purchased and fitted.

If you fancy taking it apart you may find that you only need to replace
the motor - obtainable from the likes of Screwfix for about 16 quid.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-sy...questid=290766
[Read the reviews for further info.]

Yes, I had thought about that, but the area just below the motor itself
seems stuffed full of little parts ready to ping around the room, never
to be seen again. I'll have another look, though. Having got this far
....
--
Graeme

On 18/09/2016 17:44, Graeme wrote:
In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 18/09/2016 13:20, Graeme wrote:

Will report back when actuator purchased and fitted.

If you fancy taking it apart you may find that you only need to
replace the motor - obtainable from the likes of Screwfix for about 16
quid.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-sy...questid=290766
[Read the reviews for further info.]

Yes, I had thought about that, but the area just below the motor itself
seems stuffed full of little parts ready to ping around the room, never
to be seen again. I'll have another look, though. Having got this far ...

I don't think you've got a lot to lose! If you can't mend it, you'll
have to buy another actuator anyway, so you may as well see whether you
can get the motor out without everything flying apart. [The motor itself
comes with a reduction gearbox whose output shaft rotates very slowly -
so that will all get replaced. Is that what you mean by little parts?]

Once you've got the motor out, test it by applying power directly to it
before buying a new one - in case the fault isn't the motor itself (but
it almost certainly is).
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:39:06 +0100
Graeme wrote:

In message , Davey
writes

And that's where a correct wiring diagram will make all the
difference. Remember that not all setups are wired correctly,
though, as I found out earlier this year.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm not ignoring you, just waiting
for the weather to turn. Seems a pity to be doing indoor stuff on
days like today.

Coincidentally, my boiler started to run yesterday, but stopped after a
few seconds. It did not run again all evening or night.
Today, I started by checking that it did indeed run of the CH was
turned on, which it did, so the boiler is ok.
Proceeded to do electrical checks, and eventually found that the
cylinder 'stat was stuck Off, I had to turn it all the way to max. to
make it work. It's now working, but I'll get a replacement. It's now
working, but I'll get a replacement, it's clearly not happy any more.

It's not always the valve!

--
Davey.

In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 18/09/2016 17:44, Graeme wrote:

Yes, I had thought about that, but the area just below the motor itself
seems stuffed full of little parts ready to ping around the room, never
to be seen again. I'll have another look, though. Having got this far ...

I don't think you've got a lot to lose!

Interesting. Just removed the motor, and wired it to a 13 amp plug, and
it works. Huge torque and slow final output. I couldn't stall it with
my fingers. So, replaced motor and tried again, still with just the
motor attached to a plug, but not attached to the valve itself. It
works.

Put the complete actuator back on the valve, and nothing, yet 240v
registered by meter, which tells me something is broken in the
electrical 'gubbins' mounted above the valve but below the motor. I
imagine there is some sort of micro switch within, which is buggered?

Time to replace?

--
Graeme

On 24/09/2016 17:45, Graeme wrote:
In message , Roger Mills
writes
On 18/09/2016 17:44, Graeme wrote:

Yes, I had thought about that, but the area just below the motor itself
seems stuffed full of little parts ready to ping around the room, never
to be seen again. I'll have another look, though. Having got this far
...

I don't think you've got a lot to lose!

Interesting. Just removed the motor, and wired it to a 13 amp plug, and
it works. Huge torque and slow final output. I couldn't stall it with my
fingers. So, replaced motor and tried again, still with just the motor
attached to a plug, but not attached to the valve itself. It works.

Put the complete actuator back on the valve, and nothing, yet 240v
registered by meter, which tells me something is broken in the
electrical 'gubbins' mounted above the valve but below the motor. I
imagine there is some sort of micro switch within, which is buggered?

Time to replace?


If it's a 2-port valve - which I believe it is - the only micro-switch
should be the one which closes when the valve is fully open. There's not
one in the motor circuit - the motor is connected directly to the brown
and blue external wires. [You should be able to verify that from the
internal connections, having removed and replaced the motor].

So the motor works when you connect the mains directly to it. What I'm
not clear about is how you tested it having re-installed the motor. With
the motor installed and connected internally, and with the actuator OFF
the valve, the motor should run when you connect mains across the brown
and blue external wires and should rotate the internals against the
return spring to the 'valve open' position, and the motor should then stall.

What actually happens when you do that?

Are the internals free to move? If, with no power applied, you move the
manual lever to the 'open' position, can you feel some resistance, and
hear the gears whirling? When you let go of the lever, does the spring
move it all back to the closed position?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

In message , Roger Mills
writes

Are the internals free to move? If, with no power applied, you move the
manual lever to the 'open' position, can you feel some resistance, and
hear the gears whirling? When you let go of the lever, does the spring
move it all back to the closed position?

Back to basics. The motor, when removed from the actuator assembly,
works perfectly when connected to an ordinary domestic 13 amp plug.
Plenty of torque - I cannot stop it turning, with my fingers.

The valve stem, with actuator assembly removed, turns easily with
fingers. The radiators then work with another zone calling for heat.

Looking at another zone valve, the wiring is correct.

There is a five core cable (including earth) from the programmer to the
zone valve. Using a meter, there is 240v across the brown/blue, whether
or not the programmer is on (calling for heat) or not BUT the motor,
hanging loose from the actuator head, does not turn whether or not the
programmer is on.

There is a little micro switch within the actuator - pressing that in
with a screwdriver blade causes the oil fired non combi boiler to fire,
even if the programmer is off. However, clicking the micro switch in
does not power the motor, whether or not the programmer is on or off.

Ignoring the earth, the wiring is thus :

Four cores from the programmer to the junction box. Blue, brown, black
and second black.

Another four cores from the junction box to the actuator. Blue, brown,
grey and orange.

They are connected at the junction box :

From To
programmer Actuator

Black Brown

Black Orange

Brown Grey

Blue Blue

The brown and blue wires on the actuator side connect to the motor, so
not connected directly to the incoming 240v (brown/blue) from the
programmer.

However, there is something else odd. Looking at another actuator, when
the motor runs, a little tab moves and presses the micro switch to fire
the boiler, but on the defective actuator, the tab does not move far
enough to press the micro switch, when using the manual lever.
Something has 'slipped'?

I suppose next stage should be to swap actuators.

--
Graeme