There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity
meter it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a
1kW heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas
meter seems very difficult for the end user.

--
Clive Page

Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity
meter it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a
1kW heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas
meter seems very difficult for the end user.

I think the old meters recorded 100s of cubic feet and modern ones use
Cubic metres so the ratio is nearer to 3:1 but still ought to flag up a
problem with alert consumers if they bother to read the bill. Cost
changes could be obfuscated by annual budget plans and energy price
hikes though.

Almost impossible to check a gas meter calibration other than rig the
boiler to be on full blast with no modulation and run it for so many
minutes and compare the gas volume measured with the rated heat output
of the boiler. lots of scope for error in the measurements and
calculations so would only pick up gross errors. The only fault
mechanisms in mechanical gas meters that I can think of would give
errors in favour of the consumer.
Modern electronic ones would have been tested to death in development
and likely to either just stop working or run for ever.
I believe so called smart meters (and maybe earlier electronic ones)
have batteries that need changing every few years. They are possibly
clever enough to send back battery data to the energy provider though.

Mechanical meters are changed every 10 years or so - mine was done a
couple of years ago as was the leccy meter. Both non smart types.

On 22/08/2016 10:31, Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

You are missing a bit of information. Meters which use cubic feet
display consumption in units of 100 cu ft. So a mistake between metric
and imperial is a ratio of 2.83.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity
meter it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a
1kW heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas
meter seems very difficult for the end user.

Well, for a rough value of roughly, the rating of your boiler or gas
cooker in kW lets you do much the same with gas as you can do with
electricity.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 22/08/2016 10:31, Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity meter
it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a 1kW
heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas meter
seems very difficult for the end user.


But imperial gas meter readings don't actually represent cubic feet -
they represent *hundreds* of cubic feet because the last two smaller
digits are always ignored. So a reading of 1 on an imperial meter
actually corresponds to about 2.83 M^3. A large enough error - but
nowhere near your factor of 35.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Monday, 22 August 2016 10:31:56 UTC+1, Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice.

Gas meters read in 100s of Cubic Feet, so the bill is only out by a factor of 2.83
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gas-mete...ll-calculation

Ofgem estimates approx 10,000 households may be affected.

Owain

It is but I'd hope it was metres against yards or something or a wrong
equation used somewhere to bring it to the needed measurement, something
that you could not really judge without seeing the program in use.
I'd imagine the new folk who used to be called Weights and measures should
be involved if this was amajor cock up, or the watchdog.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large by
a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what actually
went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at all, and no
reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet or
metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy way
for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording roughly
the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity meter it's
not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a 1kW heater,
then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas meter seems very
difficult for the end user.

--
Clive Page

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but since
there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult task.
I wonder from reading all the misleading wibbles about his if its as
simple as that the wrong conversion method was used for a meter in one
premises as it was recorded as type a and was type be or whatever, with
people changing suppliers all the time it would be easy for such errors to
occur. Besides I'd imagine that gas meters need checking more often than
Electric ones.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Graham." wrote in message
...

Mechanical meters are changed every 10 years or so - mine was done a
couple of years ago as was the leccy meter. Both non smart types.

I must have been out when mine was due for a change,
and the time before that,
and the time before that,
and maybe the time before that too.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Mechanical meters are changed every 10 years or so - mine was done a
couple of years ago as was the leccy meter. Both non smart types.

I must have been out when mine was due for a change,
and the time before that,
and the time before that,
and maybe the time before that too.
--

%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 10:58:35 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 22/08/2016 10:31, Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity meter
it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a 1kW
heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas meter
seems very difficult for the end user.


But imperial gas meter readings don't actually represent cubic feet -
they represent *hundreds* of cubic feet because the last two smaller
digits are always ignored. So a reading of 1 on an imperial meter
actually corresponds to about 2.83 M^3. A large enough error - but
nowhere near your factor of 35.

Here's my gas meter complete with explanations. As I can measure to
fractions of a cu ft I have (with the help of this group) confirmed
that the shower usage is in the right order.

--
AnthonyL

In article ,
Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa.

Not really. The problem was the supplier didn't convert correctly -
according to the type of meter.

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

--
Davey.

On 22/08/2016 10:31, Clive Page wrote:
There has been a news story this weekend about EON overcharging a number
of customers because their gas meters measured cubic metres when they
should have measured cubic feet, or maybe vice-versa. These stories are
all confused and hard to believe, especially because the ratio of these
units is around 35.3:1, and anyone who had a bill to small or too large
by a factor of 35 would surely notice. Does anyone understand what
actually went on here - the newspaper and website reports don't help at
all, and no reporter seems clued up enough to investigate or explain.

The imperial meters measure in "units" of 100 cu.ft, so the difference
is a factor of about 2.8

I can check easily enough whether my gas meter is recording cubic feet
or metres and corresponds to what is on the bill, but is there any easy
way for the consumer to check that a gas meter is actually recording
roughly the right number of cubit feet/metres? With an electricity
meter it's not too hard: turn everything off but one appliance such as a
1kW heater, then run it for a set length of time. But checking a gas
meter seems very difficult for the end user.


You could look at a high gas user like a boiler, check its input power
in kW and convert to an expected gas rate in m^3/hr or 100cu.ft/hr.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Gas_units




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the way
to Edinburgh.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
Graham. wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the way
to Edinburgh.

never stopped there, always in too much of a hurry. But, come the end of
next month.....

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:45:33 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100 "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the way
to Edinburgh.

Is there, now? We have only every stopped there for fuel (although I hear
the public loos are of a very high standard).

The A697 is much nicer than the A1...



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 22/08/16 17:07, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:45:33 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100 "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the way
to Edinburgh.

Is there, now? We have only every stopped there for fuel (although I hear
the public loos are of a very high standard).

The A697 is much nicer than the A1...



My drive is on the way to Edinburgh. I always stop there, and turn round..

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On Monday, 22 August 2016 15:45:32 UTC+1, Graham. wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine but
since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a difficult
task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we also
have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a British Gas
employee living down the street, but no mains gas supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several decades
ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the way
to Edinburgh.


Gasworks still exist.
They make coke for smelting iron ore.
The surplus gas is often used to generate electricity.
I visited one a few years back.
On top of the retorts it was like a scene from hell.
Amazed they could get anyone to work there.

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 17:10:49 +0100
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 22/08/16 17:07, Bob Eager wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 15:45:33 +0100, Graham. wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 14:29:23 +0100, Davey
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:56:43 +0100 "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well I had a bloke a couple of years ago wanting to change mine
but since there is no gas supply here that would indeed be a
difficult task.

I would love it if somebody came to change our gas meter, as we
also have no gas supply. It's in the next village, and we have a
British Gas employee living down the street, but no mains gas
supply here.

There used to be a local gas factory, but that closed several
decades ago. We still have the pipe out the back of the house.

There is a Gasworks museum in Biggar, a place we often stop on the
way to Edinburgh.

Is there, now? We have only every stopped there for fuel (although
I hear the public loos are of a very high standard).

The A697 is much nicer than the A1...



My drive is on the way to Edinburgh. I always stop there, and turn
round..


...and then head back southwards?

-
Davey.