Mould... again!
 

Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.
--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

More to the point, there has to be spores coming from somewhere and why is
the back getting wet?

Bleach?

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould although
the wall is unblemished.

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.
--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Mould... again!
 

On 19-Aug-16 3:25 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

Presumably, there's a source of moisture in the room?

Mould... again!
 

In message , GB
writes
On 19-Aug-16 3:25 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

Presumably, there's a source of moisture in the room?

Connected. It's a granny annexe but used for the last 2 years by the son
of some friends. No tumble drier so any clothes air dried.
Ventilation/opening windows seems a foreign language. We did give him a
dehumidifier.

Anyway, he has moved in with 2 friends so we a just sorting out the
issues.


--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 17:13:18 +0100, GB
wrote:

On 19-Aug-16 3:25 PM, Tim Lamb wrote:
Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

Presumably, there's a source of moisture in the room?

Not necessarily. In the far SW, where I live, the humidity is always
high because of proximity to the sea and the predominant wind being
SW. Black mould will grow on walls and other surfaces where there is
little or no air movement, such as behind cupboards, wardrobes,
mirrors, pictures etc. without there being a specific source of
moisture in the room.

Hmm.. may be a down side to underfloor heating where there is little air
circulation due to minimal convection.


--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

In message , Chris Hogg
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

I have yet to be disappointed with HG mould spray. Obviously
chlorine-based from the smell, but it seems to keep mould away for a
lot longer than simple bleach, so I suspect it contains more than just
bleach. http://tinyurl.com/hwqfost

OK. I'll pass that on to the domestic management dept.:-)


--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Interesting. I suppose I could encourage a bit more air movement by
moving it forward of the skirting as well.

--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

On Friday, 19 August 2016 15:26:46 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:

Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

No liquid product is going to stop condensation. You must have RH very close to dew point for this to happen with CWI. Reduce RH.


NT

Mould... again!
 

In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Interesting. I suppose I could encourage a bit more air movement by
moving it forward of the skirting as well.

That's the wrong reason.
You need thermal insulation between the wall and the back of the
wardrobe, and there must be no air gap between the wall and the
thermal insulation (doesn't matter about between the insulation
and the wardrobe).

I would buy an 8x4 sheet of 25mm celotex/kingspan or equivalent.
Fix it to the wall behind the wardrobe, making sure any gap around
the edge is filled so it's air-tight against the wall (or condensation
will form behind it and run out the bottom).

Also, avoid piling any fabric against the rear of the wardrobe, as it
will form an addition layer of porous insulation and risk getting damp
at the back.

This will prevent the rear of the wardrobe dropping below the dew point
in the room, and suffering from condensation.

The other options are move the wardrobe so it's not against an outside
wall, or get the outside wall insulated.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Mould... again!
 

On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Interesting. I suppose I could encourage a bit more air movement by
moving it forward of the skirting as well.

That's the wrong reason.
You need thermal insulation between the wall and the back of the
wardrobe, and there must be no air gap between the wall and the
thermal insulation (doesn't matter about between the insulation
and the wardrobe).

I would buy an 8x4 sheet of 25mm celotex/kingspan or equivalent.
Fix it to the wall behind the wardrobe, making sure any gap around
the edge is filled so it's air-tight against the wall (or condensation
will form behind it and run out the bottom).

Also, avoid piling any fabric against the rear of the wardrobe, as it
will form an addition layer of porous insulation and risk getting damp
at the back.

This will prevent the rear of the wardrobe dropping below the dew point
in the room, and suffering from condensation.

The other options are move the wardrobe so it's not against an outside
wall, or get the outside wall insulated.

It's already insulated. More is going to make minimal difference. It's time to address the cause & get RH down.


NT

Mould... again!
 

In message ,
writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Interesting. I suppose I could encourage a bit more air movement by
moving it forward of the skirting as well.

That's the wrong reason.
You need thermal insulation between the wall and the back of the
wardrobe, and there must be no air gap between the wall and the
thermal insulation (doesn't matter about between the insulation
and the wardrobe).

I would buy an 8x4 sheet of 25mm celotex/kingspan or equivalent.
Fix it to the wall behind the wardrobe, making sure any gap around
the edge is filled so it's air-tight against the wall (or condensation
will form behind it and run out the bottom).

Also, avoid piling any fabric against the rear of the wardrobe, as it
will form an addition layer of porous insulation and risk getting damp
at the back.

This will prevent the rear of the wardrobe dropping below the dew point
in the room, and suffering from condensation.

The other options are move the wardrobe so it's not against an outside
wall, or get the outside wall insulated.

It's already insulated. More is going to make minimal difference. It's
time to address the cause & get RH down.

I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and
can easily be sold to the boss:-) I think she would now prefer to junk
it and go for a clothes hanging rack.

It is possible that partly dried clothes will have been hung in what is
virtually an airtight space.

There is no convenient place for a tumble drier unless I stick one in
the bedroom.

Female residents would open windows!

--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Fri, 19 Aug 2016 15:25:03 +0100, Tim Lamb
wrote:

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

Line outside back of wardrobe with expanded polystyrene tiles or
polystyrene insulating lining paper.

Interesting. I suppose I could encourage a bit more air movement by
moving it forward of the skirting as well.

That's the wrong reason.
You need thermal insulation between the wall and the back of the
wardrobe, and there must be no air gap between the wall and the
thermal insulation (doesn't matter about between the insulation
and the wardrobe).

I would buy an 8x4 sheet of 25mm celotex/kingspan or equivalent.
Fix it to the wall behind the wardrobe, making sure any gap around
the edge is filled so it's air-tight against the wall (or condensation
will form behind it and run out the bottom).

Also, avoid piling any fabric against the rear of the wardrobe, as it
will form an addition layer of porous insulation and risk getting damp
at the back.

This will prevent the rear of the wardrobe dropping below the dew point
in the room, and suffering from condensation.

The other options are move the wardrobe so it's not against an outside
wall, or get the outside wall insulated.

It's already insulated. More is going to make minimal difference. It's
time to address the cause & get RH down.

I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap condensation, worsening mould.


NT

Mould... again!
 

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it. Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation. The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others. If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).

Mould... again!
 

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 15:04:19 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it.

on uninsulated walls or insulated?

Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation.

Like any plastic, polystyrene foam is vapour permeable. Currently condensation can evaporate readily.

The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others.

indeed

If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).

Yes, or other measures that also reduce RH. Some people for example seem to have no idea how to cook without creating masses of water vapour and wasted gas.


NT

Mould... again!
 

On 20/08/16 15:23, wrote:
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 15:04:19 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it.

on uninsulated walls or insulated?

Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation.

Like any plastic, polystyrene foam is vapour permeable. Currently condensation can evaporate readily.

Like almost all plastics polystyrene foam is not permeable



--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

Mould... again!
 

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 07:23:13 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 15:04:19 UTC+1, Peter Parry wrote:

Worked every time I've done it.

on uninsulated walls or insulated?

Both, the problem the OP described is common and is caused by the
environment around the back of the wardrobe where there is reduced air
circulation and a marginal drop in temperature. Normally the amounts
of condensation are small and just enough to allow localised mould
growth.

His proposed solution of removing the wardrobe and hanging clothes on
a rail may be ineffective as the clothes, if resting against the wall,
will create the same conditions and allow the same mould growth he is
seeing on the wardrobe but on the clothes instead.

Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation.

Like any plastic, polystyrene foam is vapour permeable. Currently condensation can evaporate readily.

Polystyrene allows about 2% of vapour to pass which is why even a thin
layer such as polystyrene "wallpaper" on the wardrobe is enough to
solve the localised problem. If the present condensation could
evaporate readily the mould wouldn't grow. As it is it can't,
condensation is forming not in large amounts but enough to create a
sufficiently damp local environment for mould to flourish. Quite
probably there will be no patent water noticeable on either the wall
or wardrobe.

The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others.

indeed

If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).

Yes, or other measures that also reduce RH. Some people for example seem to have no idea how to cook without creating masses of water vapour and wasted gas.

I agree that poor ventilation in many houses, especially those
retrofitted with double glazed windows combined with a lack of
understanding about damp is a problem.

Mould... again!
 

On 20-Aug-16 3:04 PM, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it. Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation. The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others. If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).


I was surprised that the OP mentioned that there is mould on the
wardrobe, but not on the wall. Any explanations?

Mould... again!
 

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 18:00:11 UTC+1, GB wrote:

I was surprised that the OP mentioned that there is mould on the
wardrobe, but not on the wall. Any explanations?

maybe the wardrobe back is more nutritious to mould.


NT

Mould... again!
 

In message , GB
writes
On 20-Aug-16 3:04 PM, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap
condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it. Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation. The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others. If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).


I was surprised that the OP mentioned that there is mould on the
wardrobe, but not on the wall. Any explanations?

I rather wonder if damp clothes have been hung. The door is fairly close
fitting so the air can't circulate. There is grey powdery mould on the
wall side of the hardboard and discolouration on the white finished
inside.





--
Tim Lamb

Mould... again!
 

"GB" wrote in message
...
On 20-Aug-16 3:04 PM, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 02:31:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, 20 August 2016 09:26:18 UTC+1, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 19 August 2016 22:49:26 UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message , Peter Parry
writes


I think attaching insulation to the wardrobe back can't do any harm and

It can. Apart from being work unlikely to succeed it can trap
condensation, worsening mould.

Worked every time I've done it. Polystyrene insulation is closed cell
so it can't "trap" condensation. The problem isn't water dripping from
walls but warm air cooling as it gets between the colder wall and
warmer wardrobe. This creates a slight film of condensation which is
enough to allow mould growth either on the wall or the wardrobe. You
commonly see this occurring in a room used to dry clothes or a
North/East facing corner of a room which tends to be cooler than
others. If clothes are dried in the room the answer is to get a
proper dehumidifier in the room and run it while clothes are drying
and for a time afterwards (It also speeds up the clothes drying).


I was surprised that the OP mentioned that there is mould on the wardrobe,
but not on the wall. Any explanations?

Presumably the mould likes the surface treatment on the back of the wardrobe
better.

Mould... again!
 

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 18:00:05 +0100, GB
wrote:


I was surprised that the OP mentioned that there is mould on the
wardrobe, but not on the wall. Any explanations?

As Tim has said - damp clothes put in wardrobe. It may also be that a
previous occupant has had a similar problem and used mould resistant
paint on the wall.

Mould... again!
 

On 19/08/2016 15:25, Tim Lamb wrote:
Cheap flatpack wardrobe fitted close to but not touching exterior
insulated cavity wall.

The hardboard backing sheet has some discolouration due to mould
although the wall is unblemished.

If this was in a barn, I would slap on some Cuprinol 5* or some such. Is
there an effective product for interior (bedroom) use.

The thing that puzzles me, is that the exterior wall would normally be
colder and attract any condensing water vapour. I presume the wall is
truly dry?

I'm left wondering if this is more down to the hardboard absorbing
moisture without being "wet" yet to a sufficient level to allow mould
growth.

The consolation is that any mould treatment would also be absorbed by
the hardboard!