Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought the
best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now, would be to try
and work out how it's all wired together, and then work out possible
causes. I've only so far had time for a quick look, but something has
struck me as odd. They have two motorised zone valves, but there is no
room thermostat anywhere. I'd always thought that each zone valve
responded to a thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has
two zone valves, but no room thermostat?

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I think
I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat - the timer
output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised valve, so it's
basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if the timer output
is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler; however, it's a
mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/ delicate :-)

I see from other posts that not having a room thermostat is valid, if
you rely on the boiler to respond appropriately, however, mum and dad
are likely to turn it high in Winter, which seems to be a bad idea in
this configuration. It would be easy to add a room stat into this
wiring, I think.

I was a bit confused because mains sockets and plugs have been used to
make some of the connections. So what I thought was the main power feed
to the whole thing (because it is right next to the boiler) is, in fact,
just the connector coming down with the power from the motorised valves.

Anyway, it's obvious now that a knackered CH motorised valve will keep
it all going regardless of what the timer etc. does, since they have an
uninterrupted feed from the mains. So this is what I need to check. I
suppose having it open all the time the heating is on doesn't help. The
actual valve underneath it feels stiff, so it may just need freeing up.

But the whole thing is a bit ropey. The heart of it is a terminal block
dangling in the void space. I need to at least put it in a box, or
something.

On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:59:48 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat -
the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised
valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if
the timer output is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler;
however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/
delicate :-)

Are you saying that the timer also controls the pump, so you have:
a) Nothing at all;
b) Everything at once, valve, pump & boiler?

And how does the Hot Water side of it work?

Just curious. Well done getting to where you are now.

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:59:48 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat -
the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised
valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if
the timer output is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler;
however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/
delicate :-)

Are you saying that the timer also controls the pump, so you have:
a) Nothing at all;
b) Everything at once, valve, pump & boiler?

Yes, the timer is /supposed/ to control everything. It has outputs for
CH on and HW on. These are supposed to activate the motorised valves,
which act as relays for the pump and boiler.

And how does the Hot Water side of it work?

The timer output for HW goes to the cylinder stat, which then goes to
the HW motorised valve.

The timer output for CH just goes to the CH motorised valve.

Just curious. Well done getting to where you are now.

On 16/08/2016 18:43, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Davey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:59:48 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat -
the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised
valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if
the timer output is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler;
however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/
delicate :-)

Are you saying that the timer also controls the pump, so you have:
a) Nothing at all;
b) Everything at once, valve, pump & boiler?

Yes, the timer is /supposed/ to control everything. It has outputs for
CH on and HW on. These are supposed to activate the motorised valves,
which act as relays for the pump and boiler.

They actually do a bit more than that! They enable the CH and HW to be
controlled independently of each other, so that you can neither, either,
or both on at any point of time. If you *just* had a relay without the
valve, *both* the CH and HW would be on whenever the boiler and pump run.


And how does the Hot Water side of it work?

The timer output for HW goes to the cylinder stat, which then goes to
the HW motorised valve.

Good. That's what it is supposed to do.

The timer output for CH just goes to the CH motorised valve.


Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote:
On 16/08/2016 18:43, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Davey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 17:59:48 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat -
the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised
valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if
the timer output is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler;
however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/
delicate :-)

Are you saying that the timer also controls the pump, so you have:
a) Nothing at all;
b) Everything at once, valve, pump & boiler?

Yes, the timer is /supposed/ to control everything. It has outputs for
CH on and HW on. These are supposed to activate the motorised valves,
which act as relays for the pump and boiler.

They actually do a bit more than that! They enable the CH and HW to be
controlled independently of each other, so that you can neither, either,
or both on at any point of time. If you *just* had a relay without the
valve, *both* the CH and HW would be on whenever the boiler and pump run.


Yes, I was over simplifying.


And how does the Hot Water side of it work?

The timer output for HW goes to the cylinder stat, which then goes to
the HW motorised valve.

Good. That's what it is supposed to do.

Yes, that bit of the wiring makes sense.

The timer output for CH just goes to the CH motorised valve.


Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought the
best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now, would be to try
and work out how it's all wired together, and then work out possible
causes. I've only so far had time for a quick look, but something has
struck me as odd. They have two motorised zone valves, but there is no
room thermostat anywhere. I'd always thought that each zone valve
responded to a thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has
two zone valves, but no room thermostat?

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I think
I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat - the timer
output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised valve, so it's
basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if the timer output
is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler; however, it's a
mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/ delicate :-)

snip

It also ensures that the boiler does not light until at least one valve
is open. A few seconds might not matter for an old, relatively massive
boiler, but it could be harmful if the valve actually failed to open at
all.



--

Roger Hayter

Roger Hayter wrote:
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought the
best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now, would be to try
and work out how it's all wired together, and then work out possible
causes. I've only so far had time for a quick look, but something has
struck me as odd. They have two motorised zone valves, but there is no
room thermostat anywhere. I'd always thought that each zone valve
responded to a thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has
two zone valves, but no room thermostat?

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I think
I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat - the timer
output for the CH goes straight to activate the motorised valve, so it's
basically acting as a relay. I can understand this if the timer output
is not capable of driving the pump and the boiler; however, it's a
mechanical timer, so I don't think it's /that/ delicate :-)

snip

It also ensures that the boiler does not light until at least one valve
is open. A few seconds might not matter for an old, relatively massive
boiler, but it could be harmful if the valve actually failed to open at
all.


I was thinking more of not having the valve at all, since it's wired
direct to the timer (and at first I thought it must always be open), but
then I realised that you can't then have the HW timed on by itself. As
usual, these things make more sense when I've had a chance to think
about them :-)

On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


NT

On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:00:24 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought
the best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now,
would be to try and work out how it's all wired together, and
then work out possible causes. I've only so far had time for a
quick look, but something has struck me as odd. They have two
motorised zone valves, but there is no room thermostat anywhere.
I'd always thought that each zone valve responded to a
thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has two zone
valves, but no room thermostat?

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat
- the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the
motorised valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can
understand this if the timer output is not capable of driving the
pump and the boiler; however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't
think it's /that/ delicate :-)

snip

It also ensures that the boiler does not light until at least one
valve is open. A few seconds might not matter for an old,
relatively massive boiler, but it could be harmful if the valve
actually failed to open at all.


I was thinking more of not having the valve at all, since it's wired
direct to the timer (and at first I thought it must always be open),
but then I realised that you can't then have the HW timed on by
itself. As usual, these things make more sense when I've had a
chance to think about them :-)


I would suggest that you study some of the standard Plans, C, S, etc,
and see which of them most suits your setup, with an added Room 'Stat.
Then use the best one as a guide to how you rewire yours. The design
work has been done already, what you have to do is select the best
implementation of this work.

--
Davey.

wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.


NT

Davey wrote:
On Wed, 17 Aug 2016 10:00:24 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Roger Hayter wrote:
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought
the best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now,
would be to try and work out how it's all wired together, and
then work out possible causes. I've only so far had time for a
quick look, but something has struck me as odd. They have two
motorised zone valves, but there is no room thermostat anywhere.
I'd always thought that each zone valve responded to a
thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has two zone
valves, but no room thermostat?

Well, I've had the floorboards up, and made a few drawings, and I
think I've got my head round it now. There is no room thermostat
- the timer output for the CH goes straight to activate the
motorised valve, so it's basically acting as a relay. I can
understand this if the timer output is not capable of driving the
pump and the boiler; however, it's a mechanical timer, so I don't
think it's /that/ delicate :-)

snip

It also ensures that the boiler does not light until at least one
valve is open. A few seconds might not matter for an old,
relatively massive boiler, but it could be harmful if the valve
actually failed to open at all.


I was thinking more of not having the valve at all, since it's wired
direct to the timer (and at first I thought it must always be open),
but then I realised that you can't then have the HW timed on by
itself. As usual, these things make more sense when I've had a
chance to think about them :-)


I would suggest that you study some of the standard Plans, C, S, etc,
and see which of them most suits your setup, with an added Room 'Stat.
Then use the best one as a guide to how you rewire yours. The design
work has been done already, what you have to do is select the best
implementation of this work.


Good idea. The manual has one that's pretty close, I think.

"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)


--
--
Chris French

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:14:04 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Chris French wrote:

"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and
valve - particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you
don't have to disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but
wireless anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling
house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)



I replaced the batteries when I moved into this house in late 2010, and
they are still working fine.

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:14:04 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Chris French wrote:

"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and
valve - particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you
don't have to disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but
wireless anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling
house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)



I replaced the batteries when I moved into this house in late 2010, and
they are still working fine.


Doesn't sound too bad, then. I always think wireless things are going
to use a lot of power. And at least if it does run out, it will just be
exactly what they have now. I've seen some that have a battery power
warning light. Maybe they all do. Do they just have a receiver that
you wire in where the normal stat would go?

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 09:42:37 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Davey wrote:
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 00:14:04 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Chris French wrote:

"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and
valve - particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you
don't have to disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since
the living room is directly below the main terminal block, but
wireless anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling
house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)



I replaced the batteries when I moved into this house in late 2010,
and they are still working fine.


Doesn't sound too bad, then. I always think wireless things are
going to use a lot of power. And at least if it does run out, it
will just be exactly what they have now. I've seen some that have a
battery power warning light. Maybe they all do. Do they just have a
receiver that you wire in where the normal stat would go?

Mine isn't wireless, though. Sorry if there was confusion. It's wired
functionally to the controls, but gets its power from the battery. It
always seemed an odd way to do it, but then I believe it's made by
Siemens, who do know a thing or two about electrical stuff.
But as for wireless things and power, my oil tank level monitor is
wireless, and it's been there for a couple of years or more now, and
still works. The receiver is plugged into the mains. I believe that the
transmitter uses a button battery.

--
Davey.

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


NT

On 18/08/16 13:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


I have had those problems but overall its still worth having one if you
are competent to reset it every time there is e.g. a lightning storm!

And replace batteries annually.


NT



--
€œSome people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of €¨an airplane.€�

Dennis Miller

On 18/08/2016 13:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*? I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

My kitchen UFH zone is controlled by a wireless stat, as is the whole
radiator circuit at my holiday flat. The batteries last a *long* time -
like 2 or 3 years - and give plenty of warning when they get low.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 18/08/2016 09:42, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:


Doesn't sound too bad, then. I always think wireless things are going to
use a lot of power. And at least if it does run out, it will just be
exactly what they have now. I've seen some that have a battery power
warning light. Maybe they all do. Do they just have a receiver that you
wire in where the normal stat would go?

They just need a receiver at a convenient location - often near the
boiler so that very little wiring is required. The receiver units are
mains powered, with just the remote stat and display unit being battery
powered.

Being wireless, you can easily experiment with the best position for the
remote stat - or even move it from room to room depending on your
priority at any given time.

[OK, the room where the stat is shouldn't have a TRV on its radiator so,
in theory, if you move the stat to a different room you should then
remove the thermostatic head from that room's TRV. I don't always bother!]
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 18/08/16 16:12, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless
CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*? I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

My kitchen UFH zone is controlled by a wireless stat, as is the whole
radiator circuit at my holiday flat. The batteries last a *long* time -
like 2 or 3 years - and give plenty of warning when they get low.

Mine only lasted a year at best.

Long distance and plenty of foil backed P-board in the way

Main unit packed up after 6 years. No idea why.


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 16:11:47 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*?

What a stupid question. Would a name and address help somehow?

I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

If you're too thick to even understand "Just reporting experience" then there's no point discussing.


NT

On 18/08/2016 18:50, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 16:11:47 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*?

What a stupid question. Would a name and address help somehow?


It's a perfectly valid question! How can you report experience if you
don't have any - or are unable to cite any concrete evidence from anyone
else?!

I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

If you're too thick to even understand "Just reporting experience" then there's no point discussing.


That sounds like the response of someone who is skating on very thin
ice! You cannot back up your assertions, so you become abusive.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Thursday, 18 August 2016 20:21:30 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 18:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 16:11:47 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*?

What a stupid question. Would a name and address help somehow?


It's a perfectly valid question! How can you report experience if you
don't have any - or are unable to cite any concrete evidence from anyone
else?!

I don't intend to drag in other people that have no interest.

I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

If you're too thick to even understand "Just reporting experience" then there's no point discussing.


That sounds like the response of someone who is skating on very thin
ice! You cannot back up your assertions, so you become abusive.

No, it's getting real. You're getting like Jim the village idiot.


NT

On 19/08/2016 12:55, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 20:21:30 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 18:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 16:11:47 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*?

What a stupid question. Would a name and address help somehow?


It's a perfectly valid question! How can you report experience if you
don't have any - or are unable to cite any concrete evidence from anyone
else?!

I don't intend to drag in other people that have no interest.

I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

If you're too thick to even understand "Just reporting experience" then there's no point discussing.


That sounds like the response of someone who is skating on very thin
ice! You cannot back up your assertions, so you become abusive.

No, it's getting real. You're getting like Jim the village idiot.


NT

I *do* have first-hand experience of wireless stats, and they work fine.
By your own admission, you have no such experience - but are still
willing to condemn them out of hand.

I think we'll let others be the judge of which of us is the bigger idiot!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 18/08/2016 13:26, wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.

I have had two recently, and as long as you're willing to change the
battery every other year they are absolutely fine. I have loads of
warning to change the batteries.

Shame you have become closed to considering Wireless CH stats. You
should consider your old experience a rare one-off event and things have
also moved on.

On Friday, 19 August 2016 14:41:23 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/08/2016 12:55, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 20:21:30 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 18:50, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 16:11:47 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.


If not yours, *whose*?

What a stupid question. Would a name and address help somehow?


It's a perfectly valid question! How can you report experience if you
don't have any - or are unable to cite any concrete evidence from anyone
else?!

I don't intend to drag in other people that have no interest.

I suspect that you're reporting prejudice rather
than experience.

If you're too thick to even understand "Just reporting experience" then there's no point discussing.


That sounds like the response of someone who is skating on very thin
ice! You cannot back up your assertions, so you become abusive.

No, it's getting real. You're getting like Jim the village idiot.

I *do* have first-hand experience of wireless stats, and they work fine.

Until they don't. They have a failure rate like every appliance

By your own admission, you have no such experience -

No, I've learnt from others'

but are still
willing to condemn them out of hand.

I'm not going to choose a low reliability option. Fitted stats last decades more reliably.

I think we'll let others be the judge of which of us is the bigger idiot!


NT

On Friday, 19 August 2016 14:47:27 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 18/08/2016 13:26, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 18 August 2016 00:12:16 UTC+1, Chris French wrote:
"Dan S. MacAbre" Wrote in message:
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 20:21:00 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

Bad! But it's trivial to insert a room stat between timer and valve -
particularly if you use a wireless stat so that you don't have to
disturb the decorations by inserting new wiring.

I'll definitely do that. Wiring it wouldn't be too bad, since the
living room is directly below the main terminal block, but wireless
anything is always nicer.

Not if you want reliability. And to not come home to a boiling house every time the batteries go down.


Oh, right. I'd imagined one plugged into a spare mains outlet.

The thermostat unit tends to be battery powered, certainly ours in
the old house was. But I think NT is being rather pessimistic. We
never had any problems with reliability, or batteries running out
( I used to put in new ones each Autumn)

Just reporting experience. Not my experience, I'd never buy a wireless CH stat.

I have had two recently, and as long as you're willing to change the
battery every other year they are absolutely fine. I have loads of
warning to change the batteries.

Shame you have become closed to considering Wireless CH stats. You
should consider your old experience a rare one-off event and things have
also moved on.

I've just asked and the one in question was from 2014 or 15.


NT

On 19/08/2016 15:14, wrote:
On Friday, 19 August 2016 14:41:23 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:


I *do* have first-hand experience of wireless stats, and they work fine.

Until they don't. They have a failure rate like every appliance


Of course they do - like boilers and zone valves, etc. My experience
suggests that wireless stats don't fail any more frequently than other
components in the system


I'm not going to choose a low reliability option. Fitted stats last decades more reliably.


Would you care to clarify what you mean by "fitted stats". Are you
referring to the mechanical type using a bi-metallic strip to control
the switch?

What is your view of non-wireless digital stats - most of which are
"programmable stats" because they also provide timed switching? Although
the contacts are hard-wired into the control system, the devices
themselves are invariably battery powered, and a lot of the logic is
common to that used in wireless stats. Would you reject these, too?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought the
best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now, would be to try
and work out how it's all wired together, and then work out possible
causes. I've only so far had time for a quick look, but something has
struck me as odd. They have two motorised zone valves, but there is no
room thermostat anywhere. I'd always thought that each zone valve
responded to a thermostat. Is there any valid configuration that has
two zone valves, but no room thermostat?

It was the CH zone valve microswitch. Thanks to all who responded. In
case anyone's interested, the normally-closed microswitch had broken its
rather flimsy pegs, and was dangling free. For now, it's JB-Welded into
position, and seems to be working. I'll add a room stat to it soon -
mum and dad like the heating on even in summer, so a room stat might
save a bit of money :-)

On Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:39:42 +0100
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote:

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
My mum and Dad's boiler wants to stay on all the time. I thought
the best thing to do, besides just switching it off for now, would
be to try and work out how it's all wired together, and then work
out possible causes. I've only so far had time for a quick look,
but something has struck me as odd. They have two motorised zone
valves, but there is no room thermostat anywhere. I'd always
thought that each zone valve responded to a thermostat. Is there
any valid configuration that has two zone valves, but no room
thermostat?

It was the CH zone valve microswitch. Thanks to all who responded.
In case anyone's interested, the normally-closed microswitch had
broken its rather flimsy pegs, and was dangling free. For now, it's
JB-Welded into position, and seems to be working. I'll add a room
stat to it soon - mum and dad like the heating on even in summer, so
a room stat might save a bit of money :-)

Glad it got identified.

--
Davey.