My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax. With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the bond is stronger.

On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?

--
Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its
logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

Ayn Rand.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:59:56 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to

+1. Cement needs to stay damp for a number of days to gain strength. OTOH if it's stone, lime would be a bit better.


NT

On 09/08/2016 22:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?

Did the OP mention any other kind?

Isn't principle constituent OPC lime?

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:59:56 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround,
The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of
mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a
bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad
thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to

+1. Cement needs to stay damp for a number of days to gain strength.

Mortar doesnt, and isnt there for strength anyway.

OTOH if it's stone, lime would be a bit better.

On 09/08/16 22:59, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

But with average bricks you simply use a wetter mortar nix on the basis
that some of the water will suck into the brick anyway.


--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 10/08/16 00:52, Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/08/2016 22:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?

Did the OP mention any other kind?

Isn't principle constituent OPC lime?
No.

The principle constitituent is Portland cement

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On Wednesday, 10 August 2016 00:52:08 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/08/2016 22:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?

Did the OP mention any other kind?

Isn't principle constituent OPC lime?

Drivel.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

It doesn't want to be bone dry.
But wetting it too much will cause unsightly cementy stains to appear on the face of the stonework as excess water runs down the face & spoil the appearance.

So, all a matter of degree.

Cementy marks can be removed with brickwork cleaner. (After cement has set).
Be cautious as it's acid and can affect some stone (limestone).

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:59, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are and block are a lot more sucky.

But with average bricks you simply use a wetter mortar nix on the basis
that some of the water will suck into the brick anyway.

The consistency of the mortar is entirely determined by how it needs to be
when doing the laying and that is determined by how it sags in use.

The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?


You know who....

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 10/08/16 07:52, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:59, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are and block are a lot more sucky.

But with average bricks you simply use a wetter mortar nix on the basis
that some of the water will suck into the brick anyway.

The consistency of the mortar is entirely determined by how it needs to be
when doing the laying and that is determined by how it sags in use.

Exactly. if the bricks suck, you make it wetter so that once the bricks
HAVE sucked, you get the right consistency.

Have you actually ever laid a course of bricks?







--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

Mike Lander wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

It is when I do it! Though it depends a bit on wind, temperature and
humidity.


--

Roger Hayter

Mike Lander wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Mike Lander wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything
porous like bricks that it is to attach to

That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are

If it *never* happens why would brick manufacturers or suppliers give
instructions on how and when to do it?

"Only with high suction rate bricks in warm
weather conditions should dunking (or wetting) of the bricks be
considered. If it is undertaken the bricks should not be
soaked and only clean fresh water should be used to avoid soluble salt
contamination"

http://www.ibstock.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ibstock-TIS-A5-BRICKWORK-MORTARS.pdf

http://www.etbricks.co.uk/index.php?p=articles-dampening-bricks-before-laying

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/08/16 07:52, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:59, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are and block are a lot more sucky.

But with average bricks you simply use a wetter mortar nix on the basis
that some of the water will suck into the brick anyway.

The consistency of the mortar is entirely determined by how it needs to be
when doing the laying and that is determined by how it sags in use.

Exactly. if the bricks suck, you make it wetter so that once the bricks
HAVE sucked, you get the right consistency.

You don't in fact do anything of the sort because no bricks suck very much.

Have you actually ever laid a course of bricks?

Lot more than one course thanks.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Mike Lander wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Mike Lander wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything
porous like bricks that it is to attach to

That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are

If it *never* happens why would brick manufacturers or suppliers give
instructions on how and when to do it?

"Only with high suction rate bricks in warm weather conditions should
dunking (or wetting) of the bricks be considered.

Because they dont have a clue.

None of ours bother and we can have 10 days over 100F
with winds that make if feel like a ****ing furnace.

If it is undertaken the bricks should not be soaked and only clean fresh
water should be used to avoid soluble salt contamination"

http://www.ibstock.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ibstock-TIS-A5-BRICKWORK-MORTARS.pdf

http://www.etbricks.co.uk/index.php?p=articles-dampening-bricks-before-laying

On 10/08/16 10:27, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/08/16 07:52, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:59, Mike Lander wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 19:45, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone" firesurround, The
instructions are not very clear. For setting the hearth on a bed of mortar
it is a bit ambiguous as to whether wetting the stone is a good or a bad
thing - it refers to one or the other drawing the moisture out of the
mortar without it being clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

mortar needs to stay wet to set properly, so wet anything porous like
bricks that it is to attach to



That isn't how bricklaying and blocklaying is done.

actually, it is if the bricks are really sucky.

They never are and block are a lot more sucky.

But with average bricks you simply use a wetter mortar nix on the basis
that some of the water will suck into the brick anyway.

The consistency of the mortar is entirely determined by how it needs to be
when doing the laying and that is determined by how it sags in use.

Exactly. if the bricks suck, you make it wetter so that once the bricks
HAVE sucked, you get the right consistency.

You don't in fact do anything of the sort because no bricks suck very much.

Have you actually ever laid a course of bricks?

Lot more than one course thanks.


I doubt it, because I have laid with bricks that suck a HUGE amount












--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 10/08/16 10:44, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/08/16 10:27, Mike Lander wrote:

Have you actually ever laid a course of bricks?

Lot more than one course thanks.


I doubt it, because I have laid with bricks that suck a HUGE amount


Have a guess who you are replying to ...

--
Adrian C

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip


I doubt it, because I have laid with bricks that suck a HUGE amount


Me too, especially with reclaimed bricks that might well have been
locally made a long time ago.


--

Roger Hayter

On 10/08/16 11:34, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip


I doubt it, because I have laid with bricks that suck a HUGE amount


Me too, especially with reclaimed bricks that might well have been
locally made a long time ago.


Yup. Te difference between an 'engineering' brick and a cheap'n'nasty
soft brick that 'looks traditional' is immense.


--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

On 10/08/16 11:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 10/08/16 11:34, Roger Hayter wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snip


I doubt it, because I have laid with bricks that suck a HUGE amount


Me too, especially with reclaimed bricks that might well have been
locally made a long time ago.


Yup. Te difference between an 'engineering' brick and a cheap'n'nasty
soft brick that 'looks traditional' is immense.


http://www.etbricks.co.uk/index.php?...-before-laying

has chapter and verse on brick variability and the need for soaking,
wetting or WHY.


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 22:46:22 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/08/16 22:38, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 19:45:39 UTC+1, DerbyBorn wrote:
My son-in-law has bought a "build it yourself" "stone"
firesurround, The instructions are not very clear. For setting the
hearth on a bed of mortar it is a bit ambiguous as to whether
wetting the stone is a good or a bad thing - it refers to one or
the other drawing the moisture out of the mortar without it being
clear as toy wheter this is a good or bad thing.

What would you suggest?

If you wet the stone it won't absorb much water. The idea is that no
dust will serve to work as a release agent as in mold release wax.
With wet surfaces the lime carries around any dust particles and the
bond is stronger.


Who mentioned lime?

I did.