I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.

Sharpening by hand is a slow process especially getting the 25deg. sharpening angle. We had a 16" horizontal oil fed grinder for that purpose but when it could not be economically repaired we resorted to using one of the now popular water cooled models typified by the Tormek type of systems.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/tormek

Surprisingly we found it quite good though fiddly to set up. The leather honing wheel we did not like preferring to hand hone the final 35deg. angle on an India stone. The Tormek models can work out quite expensive especially if you go for loads of different jigs. I have seen similar models cheaper but cannot say how effective they are having only experienced the Tormek system.

Richard

On 03/03/2016 22:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Sharpening by hand is a slow process especially getting the 25deg. sharpening angle. We had a 16" horizontal oil fed grinder for that purpose but when it could not be economically repaired we resorted to using one of the now popular water cooled models typified by the Tormek type of systems.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/tormek

Surprisingly we found it quite good though fiddly to set up. The leather honing wheel we did not like preferring to hand hone the final 35deg. angle on an India stone. The Tormek models can work out quite expensive especially if you go for loads of different jigs. I have seen similar models cheaper but cannot say how effective they are having only experienced the Tormek system.

Richard

As I wont be doing this to often due to usage I cant really justify an
expense although some of those tools look good, hopefully I can think of
a jig that will get the bulk of the correction angles done quickly and
then finish on the hand honing guide.

On 03/03/2016 23:23, ss wrote:
On 03/03/2016 22:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Sharpening by hand is a slow process especially getting the 25deg.
sharpening angle. We had a 16" horizontal oil fed grinder for that
purpose but when it could not be economically repaired we resorted to
using one of the now popular water cooled models typified by the
Tormek type of systems.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/tormek

Surprisingly we found it quite good though fiddly to set up. The
leather honing wheel we did not like preferring to hand hone the final
35deg. angle on an India stone. The Tormek models can work out quite
expensive especially if you go for loads of different jigs. I have
seen similar models cheaper but cannot say how effective they are
having only experienced the Tormek system.

Richard

As I wont be doing this to often due to usage I cant really justify an
expense although some of those tools look good, hopefully I can think of
a jig that will get the bulk of the correction angles done quickly and
then finish on the hand honing guide.


I've got a little device driven by an electric drill which has a small
grind-stone (2, actually - coarse and fine) and a magnetic holder to
hold the chisel at the right angle. Only cost a few quid, but I can't
remember where I got it. [I looked on-line so as to be able to point you
to a URL, but to no avail].

It only does one angle, but is quite fast. At school, I was taught to
sharpen chisels with two angles - with a steeper angle near the tip -
but current perceived wisdom seems to suggest that this is unnecessary.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Friday, 4 March 2016 10:38:09 UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

I've got a little device driven by an electric drill which has a small
grind-stone (2, actually - coarse and fine) and a magnetic holder to
hold the chisel at the right angle. Only cost a few quid, but I can't
remember where I got it. [I looked on-line so as to be able to point you
to a URL, but to no avail].

It only does one angle, but is quite fast. At school, I was taught to
sharpen chisels with two angles - with a steeper angle near the tip -
but current perceived wisdom seems to suggest that this is unnecessary.

It gets some of the bulk out the way, sometimes useful, and makes resharpening quicker. As I've found one can break a lot of 'rules' when grinding and still come out good.


NT

On 04/03/2016 10:37, Roger Mills wrote:
On 03/03/2016 23:23, ss wrote:
On 03/03/2016 22:49, Tricky Dicky wrote:
Sharpening by hand is a slow process especially getting the 25deg.
sharpening angle. We had a 16" horizontal oil fed grinder for that
purpose but when it could not be economically repaired we resorted to
using one of the now popular water cooled models typified by the
Tormek type of systems.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/tormek

Surprisingly we found it quite good though fiddly to set up. The
leather honing wheel we did not like preferring to hand hone the final
35deg. angle on an India stone. The Tormek models can work out quite
expensive especially if you go for loads of different jigs. I have
seen similar models cheaper but cannot say how effective they are
having only experienced the Tormek system.

Richard

As I wont be doing this to often due to usage I cant really justify an
expense although some of those tools look good, hopefully I can think of
a jig that will get the bulk of the correction angles done quickly and
then finish on the hand honing guide.


I've got a little device driven by an electric drill which has a small
grind-stone (2, actually - coarse and fine) and a magnetic holder to
hold the chisel at the right angle. Only cost a few quid, but I can't
remember where I got it. [I looked on-line so as to be able to point you
to a URL, but to no avail].

It only does one angle, but is quite fast. At school, I was taught to
sharpen chisels with two angles - with a steeper angle near the tip -
but current perceived wisdom seems to suggest that this is unnecessary.

The idea being its much quicker to resharpen the micro bevel than the
whole thing.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/03/2016 19:02, John Rumm wrote:
On 04/03/2016 10:37, Roger Mills wrote:


I've got a little device driven by an electric drill which has a small
grind-stone (2, actually - coarse and fine) and a magnetic holder to
hold the chisel at the right angle. Only cost a few quid, but I can't
remember where I got it. [I looked on-line so as to be able to point you
to a URL, but to no avail].

It only does one angle, but is quite fast. At school, I was taught to
sharpen chisels with two angles - with a steeper angle near the tip -
but current perceived wisdom seems to suggest that this is unnecessary.

The idea being its much quicker to resharpen the micro bevel than the
whole thing.


Fair enough - but that probably applies more to hand sharpening than to
using a powered device of some sort.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 03/03/2016 21:33, ss wrote:
I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.

Yup a honing jig with rollers and the belt sander will get you there
fast. Do it in short bursts to save overheating the steel. Having a bowl
of water close by to dip it in from time to time helps.

In the end I went for the WorkSharp system - not quite as pricey as the
Tormek and in some ways a bit more versatile for doing hand tools
(although probably not as good for machine planer knives)

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodwor...harp+ws3000kit

(there are videos on youtube that show various ways of building them
into a box to have a large flat surface flush with the wheel surface -
that makes using external honing jigs much easier)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

ss wrote:
I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.


Practice makes perfect, do as the professionals have done for centuries,
wheel first then stone, by hand and eye (they managed)

On 04/03/2016 03:27, F Murtz wrote:
Practice makes perfect, do as the professionals have done for centuries,
wheel first then stone, by hand and eye (they managed)

Yes but I have had these chisels for about 40 years and only ever
sharpened (attempted) about 4 or 5 times due to low usage so I will
never get enough practice.
There isnt a hope in hell of me doing them by hand / eye and doing a
decent job. If only.

On Thursday, 3 March 2016 21:35:01 UTC, ss wrote:
I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.

Any of those 3 could do the grinding. Belt sander and especially angle grinder run too fast, with those go easy & let it cool off a lot, you don't want to overheat the steel or it goes soft. Never use water with an AG grit disc, dampness can make them explode.

If you have trouble with the angle, why not print the right angle on paper so you've got something to keep an eye on & compare.


NT

John have you had any problems overheating the plane blades and chisels with no water or oil cooling and how long do the disks last?

Richard

On 04/03/2016 09:23, Tricky Dicky wrote:
John have you had any problems overheating the plane blades and chisels with no water or oil cooling and how long do the disks last?

Richard


Or pop down to Toolstation and get a new set :-)

On 04/03/2016 09:23, Tricky Dicky wrote:

John have you had any problems overheating the plane blades and
chisels with no water or oil cooling and how long do the disks last?

I take it this was in response to my worksharp comments?

Short answer, "no" no overheating problems... the disc speed is
relatively low.

When doing narrower chisels etc they are sharpened whilst held against a
heatsink anyway. You also tend to do it in short bursts anyway, as you
sharpen the bevel against the underside of the disc, and so remove it
often to inspect how its going. Then there is a delay as you flip or
swap discs. (plus you are handling the thing close to the pointy end, so
its easy to get a feel for the heat being generated).

As to abrasive life - hard to say, I am still on my first set that came
with the machine. The supplied ones are decent quality Norton discs. The
also supply a lump of crepe abrasive cleaner. (keep in mind that I am
not a very heavy hand tool user - I have 4 or five chisels, and a couple
of planes that get regular use - but typically for final finishing and
touching up rather than doing the grunt work of flattening rough boards etc.

I expect if you were sharpening wood turning tools several times a
session, then you might get through them faster. Having said that, the
system they use for sharpening curved surfaces really is a revelation,
as you look though the abrasive to see the surface you are sharpening in
real time, and it does not require extra jigs to get a decent result.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 04/03/2016 06:58, wrote:
Any of those 3 could do the grinding. Belt sander and especially angle grinder run too fast, with those go easy & let it cool off a lot, you don't want to overheat the steel or it goes soft. Never use water with an AG grit disc, dampness can make them explode.

If you have trouble with the angle, why not print the right angle on paper so you've got something to keep an eye on & compare.

I think my best bet is to make some sort of wooden jig and use on the
belt sander at slowest speed with a bucket of water handy for cooling.

On Friday, 4 March 2016 09:48:50 UTC, ss wrote:
On 04/03/2016 06:58, tabbypurr wrote:
Any of those 3 could do the grinding. Belt sander and especially angle grinder run too fast, with those go easy & let it cool off a lot, you don't want to overheat the steel or it goes soft. Never use water with an AG grit disc, dampness can make them explode.

If you have trouble with the angle, why not print the right angle on paper so you've got something to keep an eye on & compare.

I think my best bet is to make some sort of wooden jig and use on the
belt sander at slowest speed with a bucket of water handy for cooling.

sounds good, with wet & dry


NT

On 3/3/2016 9:33 PM, ss wrote:
I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.

I do any "rough" preparation on the slow, wet stone of my bench grinder,
and do the final cleanup with one of these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-ch...FagKwwodgbQLEw

Purists would say you get the best edge with a japanese water stone
rather than a "western" oil-stone.

Main danger with belt sander / high speed bench grinder / angle grinder
is that if you overheat the edge you will ruin the temper and would then
have to go through the full harden / temper sequence. Or grind off a lot
of material.

On Friday, 4 March 2016 11:10:57 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 3/3/2016 9:33 PM, ss wrote:

I dont use mine very often and over the years they have been sharpened
rather badly. Used mainly for rough woodwork.
Anyhow I have decided to spend some time and get all my planes and
chisels sharpened and with the correct angles.
Today using a honing guide it took me about 3 hours to get the primary
bevel angle ground doing it by hand on 180 grit on a glass sheet.
As I have a few blades to be done is there a way to speed up the
intitial part of the sharpening before progressing to finer grits with
the honing guide which I dont mind spending a bit of time on.
Tools to hand would be:
Angle grinder / belt sander / bench grinder

I suspect something between the belt sander and the bench grinder but
how to get the correct angle as I dont have a jig for any of these.

I do any "rough" preparation on the slow, wet stone of my bench grinder,
and do the final cleanup with one of these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-ch...FagKwwodgbQLEw

Purists would say you get the best edge with a japanese water stone
rather than a "western" oil-stone.

Main danger with belt sander / high speed bench grinder / angle grinder
is that if you overheat the edge you will ruin the temper and would then
have to go through the full harden / temper sequence. Or grind off a lot
of material.

Yes - very easy to avoid though. The ability of an AG to throw a tool violently also demands attention.


NT