Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.
Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.
The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay I
assume (haven't heard it click yet).
If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.

Some PIRs require two cycles - off-on-off-on - to activate
the manual override. Have you tried that?

Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.

Yes.

The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay [...]

That doesn't automatically follow, although I've never encountered a PIR
that didn't use relay switching.

If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

No, I've done similar with no problems. For a safe switching
arrangement make up a gridswitch assembly with one DP switch and one SP.
Then mains feed via DP switch to PIR 'input' as normal - to give safe
isolation for lamp replacement and mechanical maintenance - and your
manual switch wire via the SP switch, taken fom the load side of the DP
switch, obviously. Label switches appropriately.

--
Andy

On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 11:36:50 UTC, Andy Wade wrote:
On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:

Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and

Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.
The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay

That doesn't automatically follow, although I've never encountered a PIR
that didn't use relay switching.

Lots have used triacs

If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

No, I've done similar with no problems.

ditto

For a safe switching
arrangement make up a gridswitch assembly with one DP switch and one SP.
Then mains feed via DP switch to PIR 'input' as normal - to give safe
isolation for lamp replacement and mechanical maintenance - and your
manual switch wire via the SP switch, taken fom the load side of the DP
switch, obviously. Label switches appropriately.

seldom are such precautions taken


NT

On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 11:36:50 UTC, Andy Wade wrote:
No, I've done similar with no problems. For a safe switching
arrangement make up a gridswitch assembly with one DP switch and one SP.

Or if grid switches do not appeal, "Sink/Bath" switches for water heaters are available in this configuration.

Owain

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:36:31 +0000, Andy Wade wrote:

On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.

Some PIRs require two cycles - off-on-off-on - to activate
the manual override. Have you tried that?

No, but just have and it doesn't work. Pitty, it would have been the easy
way.

Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.

Yes.

The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay [...]

That doesn't automatically follow, although I've never encountered a PIR
that didn't use relay switching.

If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

No, I've done similar with no problems. For a safe switching
arrangement make up a gridswitch assembly with one DP switch and one SP.
Then mains feed via DP switch to PIR 'input' as normal - to give safe
isolation for lamp replacement and mechanical maintenance - and your
manual switch wire via the SP switch, taken fom the load side of the DP
switch, obviously. Label switches appropriately.

I do want at least SP isolation on the L - any ordinary light switching will
be SP, including the MCB and the only way is the DP RCD in most cases.
The simple way would be a 2-gang, 2-way plate. Actually, if the L to common
for Manual was fed via the NC side of the Auto switch, the Auto would have
to be Off for the Manual to work. With both switches Off, the supply would
be as isolated as any other lighting supply.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able
to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.

Some PIRs require two cycles - off-on-off-on - to activate
the manual override. Have you tried that?

Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.

Yes.

The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay
[...]

That doesn't automatically follow, although I've never encountered a PIR
that didn't use relay switching.

If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR;
if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K
in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

No, I've done similar with no problems. For a safe switching arrangement
make up a gridswitch assembly with one DP switch and one SP. Then mains
feed via DP switch to PIR 'input' as normal - to give safe isolation for
lamp replacement and mechanical maintenance - and your manual switch wire
via the SP switch, taken fom the load side of the DP switch, obviously.
Label switches appropriately.


Is that really needed when you can turn off and lock off (not that anyone
locks off on domestics) the lighting MCB?

--
Adam

On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:46:22 UTC, ARW wrote:
Is that really needed when you can turn off and lock off (not that anyone
locks off on domestics) the lighting MCB?

It can be useful, if not needed for safety, for DP isolating of outside lights in case any dampness causes low insulation N-E which would trip an RCD.

Owain

On 03/02/2016 22:08, wrote:
On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:46:22 UTC, ARW wrote:
Is that really needed when you can turn off and lock off (not that
anyone locks off on domestics) the lighting MCB?

It can be useful, if not needed for safety, for DP isolating of
outside lights in case any dampness causes low insulation N-E which
would trip an RCD.

I make sure all my outside electrics have their own RCD...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 04 Feb 2016 11:28:04 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/02/2016 22:08, wrote:
On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:46:22 UTC, ARW wrote:
Is that really needed when you can turn off and lock off (not that
anyone locks off on domestics) the lighting MCB?

It can be useful, if not needed for safety, for DP isolating of
outside lights in case any dampness causes low insulation N-E which
would trip an RCD.

I make sure all my outside electrics have their own RCD...

Done the front one now. 4W, 350lm, 4000K GU10 @ 120 deg. lights the area
well and isn't obtrusive from the sides.
Used a 2-gang, 2-way plate and flat 3&E. It is a relay - can hear the click
when close to it.
When I took off the plate next to it (does hall and landing) found that the
pattress was falling apart - it had been screwed down over a void, so now
all of the cables have to come out and the holes redrilled when the filler
has dried out.
The back light needs moving along about a yard - somehow there's another
shed in the way.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.
Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.
The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay I
assume (haven't heard it click yet).
If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

Should be fine. You can wire it like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ampCircuit.gif




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:46:00 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.
Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.
The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay I
assume (haven't heard it click yet).
If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

Should be fine. You can wire it like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ampCircuit.gif

Cheers - that helps. At one time I could do fairly complex stuff in my head,
but lack of practice, age etc...
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 03/02/2016 18:18, PeterC wrote:
On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:46:00 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/02/2016 09:30, PeterC wrote:
Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able to
switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on and
initial On gives 5s.
Now, if I had a 2-gang plate and used flat 3&E, I could feed a L to the
output of the PIR.
The PIR is rated for resistive, inductive and CFL loads, so has a relay I
assume (haven't heard it click yet).
If the 'manual' switch is on it will supply L to the output of the PIR; if
the PIR then switches on it will have L on both side (normal anyway).
The load will be a 4W (about 7 - 8VA) LED (GU10, 350 lm) 120deg., 4000K in a
bulkhead fitting - there's a 180 lm LED atm and it's OK for the area).

Can you see any problems with this way of wiring it?

Should be fine. You can wire it like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...ampCircuit.gif

Cheers - that helps. At one time I could do fairly complex stuff in my head,
but lack of practice, age etc...

Exactly my reaction! Saves having to think about it (and much clearer
than my sketch on the back of an envelope would have been).

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 09:30:29 +0000, PeterC wrote:

Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able
to switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on
and initial On gives 5s.

Have you tried switching it off and on rapidly? That often puts it to a
manual perma-on.

Failing that, train a spider to run about in front of the sensor.

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:17:07 +0000 (UTC), Adrian wrote:

On Wed, 03 Feb 2016 09:30:29 +0000, PeterC wrote:

Having put a PIR on an outside light, it would be convenient to be able
to switch it on manually. The usual switching pattern doesn't keep it on
and initial On gives 5s.

Have you tried switching it off and on rapidly? That often puts it to a
manual perma-on.

Failing that, train a spider to run about in front of the sensor.

Did you get that idea via the web?
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway