Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.

On 15/01/2016 17:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.


can't answer without more details.

Ifr you are taking a wall down ..is it load bearing (critical point)?
What is the construction?
What make good is required?
What is floor material .... Acrows may need to support upstairs during work
Any power, water or gas feeds in or on wall?

Lots of variables ...

rick wrote:
On 15/01/2016 17:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.


can't answer without more details.

Ifr you are taking a wall down ..is it load bearing (critical point)?
What is the construction?
What make good is required?
What is floor material .... Acrows may need to support upstairs during work
Any power, water or gas feeds in or on wall?

Lots of variables ...

I'm only hoping for a guess to the nearest £1000, if that's possible.
I'd like to at least have some idea of the order of magnitude so's I
don't look like a complete idiot :-)

It is a load bearing wall. I mentioned that it is supporting in the
subject, but forgot to include it in the message. I expect it is breeze
block (house is from the 80's). I'm useless at plastering, so I'd be
thinking of getting it finished up to there. Floor is conrete with
screed. There are mains outlets on both sides. There is a door in it,
and metal detector shows something above it, but not extending any
further to either side.

Thanks.

In article ,
"Dan S. MacAbre" writes:
rick wrote:
On 15/01/2016 17:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.


can't answer without more details.

Ifr you are taking a wall down ..is it load bearing (critical point)?
What is the construction?
What make good is required?
What is floor material .... Acrows may need to support upstairs during work
Any power, water or gas feeds in or on wall?

Lots of variables ...

I'm only hoping for a guess to the nearest £1000, if that's possible.
I'd like to at least have some idea of the order of magnitude so's I
don't look like a complete idiot :-)

It is a load bearing wall. I mentioned that it is supporting in the
subject, but forgot to include it in the message. I expect it is breeze
block (house is from the 80's). I'm useless at plastering, so I'd be
thinking of getting it finished up to there. Floor is conrete with
screed. There are mains outlets on both sides. There is a door in it,
and metal detector shows something above it, but not extending any
further to either side.

It depends on lots of things.
What is the current load?
What will you be transferring the load to?
Is that strong enough (including its foundations) to take the extra load,
or will it require piers and/or underpinning?
What other construction will remain to provide diagonal bracing?
Do you mind an RSJ below the existing ceiling, or do you want it above
the ceiling so the ceiling can run across flat between the two rooms?
etc...

A structural surveyor will be able to give you the options in your
particular case, and you may need to supply this to the BCO.

If this joins a party wall, then party wall act comes into play too,
and you have to involve your neighbours.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dan S. MacAbre" writes:
rick wrote:
On 15/01/2016 17:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.


can't answer without more details.

Ifr you are taking a wall down ..is it load bearing (critical point)?
What is the construction?
What make good is required?
What is floor material .... Acrows may need to support upstairs during work
Any power, water or gas feeds in or on wall?

Lots of variables ...

I'm only hoping for a guess to the nearest £1000, if that's possible.
I'd like to at least have some idea of the order of magnitude so's I
don't look like a complete idiot :-)

It is a load bearing wall. I mentioned that it is supporting in the
subject, but forgot to include it in the message. I expect it is breeze
block (house is from the 80's). I'm useless at plastering, so I'd be
thinking of getting it finished up to there. Floor is conrete with
screed. There are mains outlets on both sides. There is a door in it,
and metal detector shows something above it, but not extending any
further to either side.

Sorry for the late reply.

It depends on lots of things.
What is the current load?

Upstairs bathroom with stud walls.

What will you be transferring the load to?

One end will be an external cavity wall, the other end, the rest of the
breeze block wall.

Is that strong enough (including its foundations) to take the extra load,
or will it require piers and/or underpinning?

Don't know, but I'd have thought so - breeze block wall at either end.

What other construction will remain to provide diagonal bracing?

I hadn't thought about diagonal bracing - with the wall removed, I don't
think there'll be anything.

Do you mind an RSJ below the existing ceiling, or do you want it above
the ceiling so the ceiling can run across flat between the two rooms?
etc...

I was expecting it to be visible - I can't see how it can be hidden.


A structural surveyor will be able to give you the options in your
particular case, and you may need to supply this to the BCO.

If this joins a party wall, then party wall act comes into play too,
and you have to involve your neighbours.


It's all detached.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016 at 10:42:48 AM UTC, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Dan S. MacAbre" writes:
rick wrote:
On 15/01/2016 17:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.


can't answer without more details.

Ifr you are taking a wall down ..is it load bearing (critical point)?
What is the construction?
What make good is required?
What is floor material .... Acrows may need to support upstairs during work
Any power, water or gas feeds in or on wall?

Lots of variables ...

I'm only hoping for a guess to the nearest £1000, if that's possible..
I'd like to at least have some idea of the order of magnitude so's I
don't look like a complete idiot :-)

It is a load bearing wall. I mentioned that it is supporting in the
subject, but forgot to include it in the message. I expect it is breeze
block (house is from the 80's). I'm useless at plastering, so I'd be
thinking of getting it finished up to there. Floor is conrete with
screed. There are mains outlets on both sides. There is a door in it,
and metal detector shows something above it, but not extending any
further to either side.

Sorry for the late reply.

It depends on lots of things.
What is the current load?

Upstairs bathroom with stud walls.

What will you be transferring the load to?

One end will be an external cavity wall, the other end, the rest of the
breeze block wall.

Is that strong enough (including its foundations) to take the extra load,
or will it require piers and/or underpinning?

Don't know, but I'd have thought so - breeze block wall at either end.

What other construction will remain to provide diagonal bracing?

I hadn't thought about diagonal bracing - with the wall removed, I don't
think there'll be anything.

Do you mind an RSJ below the existing ceiling, or do you want it above
the ceiling so the ceiling can run across flat between the two rooms?
etc...

I was expecting it to be visible - I can't see how it can be hidden.


A structural surveyor will be able to give you the options in your
particular case, and you may need to supply this to the BCO.

If this joins a party wall, then party wall act comes into play too,
and you have to involve your neighbours.


It's all detached.

You might still possibly need a party wall agreement if you dig foundations close to theirs even if it's not actually a party wall.

Robert

On 19/01/2016 10:42, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:


Do you mind an RSJ below the existing ceiling, or do you want it above
the ceiling so the ceiling can run across flat between the two rooms?
etc...

I was expecting it to be visible - I can't see how it can be hidden.


It *is* possible to have an RSJ at the same level as the ceiling joists
- with the ends of the joists cut to fit between the flanges of the RSJ,
and be supported by it. I've got a couple of instances of that in my
house - but they're both in situations where the joists change direction
- being perpendicular to the RSJ on one side, and parallel to it on the
other side. It would be more difficult if the joists were perpendicular
on both sides - you'd have to prepare the ends of the joists and then
slide the RSJ in through a hole in an outside wall. It's so much better
if you *can* create a flat ceiling without having a visible - albeit
boxed in - beam across the room.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place
up a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall
is about 10 feet wide.

When you say supporting, what is it supporting? - if it's floor joists above
then this makes a difference over brick/blockwork.
Does the block wall continue up through the upstairs?

I did something similar about 2 years ago, it took two of us two days.

Day one: break hole through top of wall to discover joists meet on top, this
is where they were joined.
Put 4 acrow props on either side to hold up joists and took wall down and
removed.
Installed long steel beam, about 10ft IIRC under joists and set into wall
either side, allowed (strong) mortar to go off overnight.

Day two~: took down acrows, patched up wall either side with plasterboard.
Plasterboarded over the steel beam.
Skimmed and cleaned up.


If the masonry continues upward then it's a different kettle of fish -
bigger parts of the ceilings will need to be removed, some plastering may be
required upstairs where the wall continues as blocks may fall before the
beam is installed.

If your upstairs walls are studding, you've nothing to worry about.

Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour £600 mini
skip £100

Ballpark

On 15/01/2016 20:09, Phil L wrote:



How did you ensure that the walls either side would take the load
transmitted by the beam? Is that just based on experience?




Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour £600 mini
skip £100

Ballpark

Are you suggesting that that's what a contractor would charge?

GB wrote:
On 15/01/2016 20:09, Phil L wrote:



How did you ensure that the walls either side would take the load
transmitted by the beam? Is that just based on experience?

Experience.
Each time we've worked to plans, this is the way the BCO wants to see it
done.
Even though no one 'official' was involved in the above job, we still did it
to spec.

The wall was there to support the bedroom floor joists. The steel beam takes
it's place, no calculations, ifs whys or wherefores invovled


Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour
£600 mini skip £100

Ballpark

Are you suggesting that that's what a contractor would charge?

I don't know how much contractors in his area charge per day, around here
it's around £150, which is why I said ballpark....it could by £200 where he
lives.
They'll probably add 20% on for profit.
He may know someone capable of helping him DIY and these are the figures he
can work with.

On 16/01/2016 18:23, Phil L wrote:



Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour
£600 mini skip £100

Ballpark

Are you suggesting that that's what a contractor would charge?

I don't know how much contractors in his area charge per day, around here
it's around £150, which is why I said ballpark....it could by £200 where he
lives.
They'll probably add 20% on for profit.

My limited experience is that I wouldn't get a contractor to quote under
£3k, but maybe they see me coming.

GB wrote:
On 16/01/2016 18:23, Phil L wrote:



Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour
£600 mini skip £100

Ballpark

Are you suggesting that that's what a contractor would charge?

I don't know how much contractors in his area charge per day, around
here it's around £150, which is why I said ballpark....it could by
£200 where he lives.
They'll probably add 20% on for profit.

My limited experience is that I wouldn't get a contractor to quote
under £3k, but maybe they see me coming.

You should get more prices. I recently went and looked at a kitchen
replacement, the bloke had been quoted 5K.
There is less than £1000 worth of materials in it and I could do it
comfortably in 7 days, which includes 2 rows of tiles around the worktop and
tiling the floor. If I charged him the same I would make £571 per day. Big
companies have big overheads and make big profits

Phil L wrote:
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place
up a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall
is about 10 feet wide.

When you say supporting, what is it supporting? - if it's floor joists above
then this makes a difference over brick/blockwork.
Does the block wall continue up through the upstairs?

Floor joists and upstairs stud walls. The block wall is only half the
height of the house.

I did something similar about 2 years ago, it took two of us two days.

Day one: break hole through top of wall to discover joists meet on top, this
is where they were joined.
Put 4 acrow props on either side to hold up joists and took wall down and
removed.
Installed long steel beam, about 10ft IIRC under joists and set into wall
either side, allowed (strong) mortar to go off overnight.

Day two~: took down acrows, patched up wall either side with plasterboard.
Plasterboarded over the steel beam.
Skimmed and cleaned up.


If the masonry continues upward then it's a different kettle of fish -
bigger parts of the ceilings will need to be removed, some plastering may be
required upstairs where the wall continues as blocks may fall before the
beam is installed.

If your upstairs walls are studding, you've nothing to worry about.

Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour £600 mini
skip £100

Ballpark

"Phil L" wrote in message ...

Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place
up a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall
is about 10 feet wide.

When you say supporting, what is it supporting? - if it's floor joists above
then this makes a difference over brick/blockwork.
Does the block wall continue up through the upstairs?

I did something similar about 2 years ago, it took two of us two days.

Day one: break hole through top of wall to discover joists meet on top, this
is where they were joined.
Put 4 acrow props on either side to hold up joists and took wall down and
removed.
Installed long steel beam, about 10ft IIRC under joists and set into wall
either side, allowed (strong) mortar to go off overnight.

Day two~: took down acrows, patched up wall either side with plasterboard.
Plasterboarded over the steel beam.
Skimmed and cleaned up.


If the masonry continues upward then it's a different kettle of fish -
bigger parts of the ceilings will need to be removed, some plastering may be
required upstairs where the wall continues as blocks may fall before the
beam is installed.

If your upstairs walls are studding, you've nothing to worry about.

Beam £400, acrows £20 hire, plaster and board £20, 4 days labour £600 mini
skip £100

Ballpark

If you can get that honest a builder, snatch his hand off!

Or, i suspect quotes of between 1k5 and 3k are more likely.

Steve

In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.

If you live in a street of similar houses ask around as there is sure to
be someone who has had the same modifications done. You will also get some
idea about any problems and which builders they would recommend.

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

On 16/01/16 12:27, Alan Dawes wrote:
In article ,
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Definitely not DIY (for me, at least). I'm considering turning our
living room and dining room into a big L-shaped room. Open the place up
a bit. Does anyone have an idea how much it might cost? The wall is
about 10 feet wide.

If you live in a street of similar houses ask around as there is sure to
be someone who has had the same modifications done. You will also get some
idea about any problems and which builders they would recommend.

Alan

wet finger. £8000


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone