An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM

On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 11:38:27 AM UTC, MM wrote:
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM

Vans still have key holes? All my door handles are just handles, there is just one keyhole under a cover so you can get the car open if the remote or car battery is dead.

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that would
open the rear door.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep them in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even for a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door. It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine unless
the clutch is down).

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside, because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a fundamental
flaw.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"MM" wrote in message

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local
scrote car/van thieves.

I can open a van vault in 30 seconds with a cordless drill and a 15mm metal
drill bit. There will be some damage to the lock..



--
Adam

On 02/01/2016 12:50, ARW wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"MM" wrote in message

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local
scrote car/van thieves.

I can open a van vault in 30 seconds with a cordless drill and a 15mm
metal drill bit. There will be some damage to the lock..

Most scrotes jam a screwdriver into the lock and rotate the whole mass
in the door panel. (On one occasion the lock was reusable!)

10 secs tops! You're clearly not up to their standard! :-)

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 02/01/2016 12:50, ARW wrote:
"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"MM" wrote in message

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local
scrote car/van thieves.

I can open a van vault in 30 seconds with a cordless drill and a 15mm
metal drill bit. There will be some damage to the lock..

Most scrotes jam a screwdriver into the lock and rotate the whole mass in
the door panel. (On one occasion the lock was reusable!)

10 secs tops! You're clearly not up to their standard! :-)

Van vaults or van doors?

I meant this van vault

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF-T3zlLwy8

It's something you learn how to do when the apprentice has snapped the key
in the lock.


--
Adam

On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:47:11 +0000, NY wrote:

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for
servicing had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting
into the car if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit
of a fundamental flaw.

I have a key with no blade, but one is concealed inside the fob.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside, because if an
expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote car/van thieves.

The reason is probably because he needs to leave the lock
is such a condition that the customer can carry on using
the van straight away. I don't know that much about locks
but possibly he might replace the cylinder meaning the
customer might have to carry an extra key until they
decide to get a matching cylinder at a later date.

Snatch thieves would be happy leaving the door hanging
off while twokkers and thieves would sort that all out
later if at all.


michael adams

....

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
.. .
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that would
open the rear door.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep them in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even for a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door. It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine unless
the clutch is down).

I do exactly the same as above. I follow the Japanese train drive
principle where they gesture towards a lever before pulling it. I hold
the key(s) in my hand and look at them.

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside, because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

Indeed. He said the only way to get in is to drill out the lock. I
wonder whether Amazon got the driver to return to base to pick up
another van. He could hardly carry on his round with potentially
thousands of pounds of goods in an unlocked van.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a fundamental
flaw.

I did wonder why a large organisation like Amazon cannot open the van
remotely. I mean, we trust the internet to transmit data between a
cash point and the bank.

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...

Indeed. He said the only way to get in is to drill out the lock. I
wonder whether Amazon got the driver to return to base to pick up
another van. He could hardly carry on his round with potentially
thousands of pounds of goods in an unlocked van.


Just because it was painted "Amazon Logistics" on the side
doesn't necessarily mean it was owned by Amazon. Amazon contract
all their deliveries out, allowing competing suppliers to beat
each other down on price for the privilege of having Amazon
livery on their vans, which they doubtless pay for themselves.
Even in quiet times when the vans are sitting in the yard
and the zero hours drivers are sat at home by the phone.
What Amazon do have is first class tracking and comms which
allows them to keep tabs on what everyone's and everything is
up to. And while Amazon summoned up the locksmith to get the
van back on the road as quickly as possible it will have been
the delivery co. who doubtless will have picked up the tab.

City Link anyone ?


michael adams

....

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are
still open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch
that would open the rear door.

This is a delivery van. It would make sense for the cargo doors to be
slam lock. a) it's quicker b) means the cargo area is aways locked.
Having an overide switch defeats this. B-)

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep
them in my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door
(assuming the remote has failed) or to operate the ignition switch;

How quaint. B-) My "key" stays in my pocket all the time. I just
wish the tactile markings on the buttons was a bit better. The
buttons are only raised or lowered and the "panic" button feels the
same as "unlock" and in the diagonally opposite corner of the 2 x 3
array of six buttons.

I got into the habit of never putting the keys down anywhere (especially
inside the car) even for a few seconds.

When I had a real key Inside the car it would go straight into the
ignition. The danger area is the boot, open boot to get something,
need both hands, put down keys... I think this car "knows" if the
keys are in the boot and will not slam lock if they are. I must check
that the spare "key" works and test this.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for
servicing had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting
into the car if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit
of a fundamental flaw.

My "key" has a blade hidden away inside and a (singular) key hole on
the car that is normally covered by a cap. Or maybe take the blade
from the key and see how that system works as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are
still open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch
that would open the rear door.

This is a delivery van. It would make sense for the cargo doors to be
slam lock. a) it's quicker b) means the cargo area is aways locked.
Having an overide switch defeats this. B-)


Post Office Vauxhall Combos are modified so that the back door can only be
opened with the van key.

--
Adam

On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that would
open the rear door.

As time progresses, vehicles have stupider and stupider electronic systems, like locking the door ITSELF after a certain time if you leave the vehicle unattended. Of course the vehicle doesn't know the keys are in the vehicle and not your pocket. Even if it's supposed to sense them somehow, like mobile phones, signals aren't always 100%.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep them in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even for a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door. It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine unless
the clutch is down).

You must be the 1% of the population with a perfectly working memory and never gets distracted. Have you never unlocked a door and been carrying something large/heavy and had to put the keys down somewhere, then forget them? Have you never been leaving he house and thought "oops I forgot to...." and gone back in, interrupting your locking procedure?

I pretty soon stopped using the Yale lock on my house and hid spare keys in the garden aswell.

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside, because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

I once had the alarm break on a Ford Mondeo (M reg). It wouldn't stop sounding, even though I had the key in my possession and could get into the car. I called the AA. He reached under the dashboard below the steering wheel and snipped the RED (!) wire. Alarm shut up, car worked normally.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a fundamental
flaw.

Talking of batteries, why can't they make a bonnet with a normal lock like the boot? The cable release always ends up breaking.

--
Peter is listening to "Who's the best - DJ Mad Dog feat. Tommyknocker"

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are
still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that would
open the rear door.

As time progresses, vehicles have stupider and stupider electronic
systems,

No.

like locking the door ITSELF after a certain time if you leave the vehicle
unattended. Of course the vehicle doesn't know the keys are in the
vehicle and not your pocket.

It does actually.

Even if it's supposed to sense them somehow,

In the same way it knows its in the car when you hit the engine start
button.

like mobile phones, signals aren't always 100%.

Perfectly possible to have it fail safe.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep them
in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the
remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit
of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even for
a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I
always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door.
It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm
it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine unless
the clutch is down).

You must be the 1% of the population with a perfectly working memory and
never gets distracted.

That is the whole point of getting into that sort of habit,
it keeps working in that situation.

Have you never unlocked a door and been carrying something large/heavy and
had to put the keys down somewhere, then forget them?

No, never, because I don't have to put the keys down somewhere
in that situation. I can leave them in the lock until I put the large/heavy
thing down and then take them out of the lock and do what I normally
do with them.

Have you never been leaving he house and thought "oops I forgot to...."
and gone back in, interrupting your locking procedure?

Yes, but the locking procedure works fine in that situation too.

I pretty soon stopped using the Yale lock on my house and hid spare keys
in the garden aswell.

With mine I have to use the key to lock the door as I go out.
It isnt possible to slam the door and have it lock without
using the key, so not possible to lock the keys in the house.

The one time I ever lost the keys was when I had just moved
into the house I had just built, well before it was even close
to being finished. I had rigged up a temporary bed by putting
an old door on a few concrete blocks in the second bathroom
which had had no work done on it at all. That had a number
of big earthenware pipes coming up thru the concrete slab
for stuff like the floor drain, the shower drain, the sink etc
which were completely open at the top.

I used to take a nap on that most days and managed to
have the keys fall out of my pocket, into one of those
drains without me noticing. After a lot of head scratching
I decided that that must have been what had happened
to the keys and sure enough, when I looked in the drain,
there they were.

I have also never run out of petrol in any car I have ever
driven except on the one occasion when I has picked up
a couple of Alsatian puppies from the state capital which
is more than one fill of petrol away from where I live.
I brought them home in the VW Beetle with the front
seat removed with the two puppies who where only
5 weeks old on some newspaper where the front
passenger's seat normally is. I did manage to forget
to fill up with petrol as I passed the place I usually
filled it on that run I did plenty of times.

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

I once had the alarm break on a Ford Mondeo (M reg). It wouldn't stop
sounding, even though I had the key in my possession and could get into
the car. I called the AA. He reached under the dashboard below the
steering wheel and snipped the RED (!) wire. Alarm shut up, car worked
normally.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for
servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the
car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a
fundamental
flaw.

Talking of batteries, why can't they make a bonnet with a normal lock like
the boot?

Presumably the lock ends up filled with dead insects
and dirt etc. Much easier to avoid that at the back.

The cable release always ends up breaking.

I've only ever had the one break, on a Golf.

The Beetle never did and neither did any of the other cars.

"879" wrote in message ...

jack off rod.

On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:25:56 -0000, 879 wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are
still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that would
open the rear door.

As time progresses, vehicles have stupider and stupider electronic
systems,

No.

like locking the door ITSELF after a certain time if you leave the vehicle
unattended. Of course the vehicle doesn't know the keys are in the
vehicle and not your pocket.

It does actually.

Even if it's supposed to sense them somehow,

In the same way it knows its in the car when you hit the engine start
button.

like mobile phones, signals aren't always 100%.

Perfectly possible to have it fail safe.

Except I've seen plenty that don't. If the sensor isn't sensitive enough, it doesn't know the difference between no keys and can't quite see the keys.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep them
in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the
remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit
of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even for
a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I
always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door.
It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm
it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine unless
the clutch is down).

You must be the 1% of the population with a perfectly working memory and
never gets distracted.

That is the whole point of getting into that sort of habit,
it keeps working in that situation.

Habits only work for good memory. I can't even remember to clean my teeth or shave every day.

Have you never unlocked a door and been carrying something large/heavy and
had to put the keys down somewhere, then forget them?

No, never, because I don't have to put the keys down somewhere
in that situation. I can leave them in the lock until I put the large/heavy
thing down and then take them out of the lock and do what I normally
do with them.

Which is why I often see people's keys in their front door.

Have you never been leaving he house and thought "oops I forgot to...."
and gone back in, interrupting your locking procedure?

Yes, but the locking procedure works fine in that situation too.

Most people would then forget to continue the procedure.

I pretty soon stopped using the Yale lock on my house and hid spare keys
in the garden aswell.

With mine I have to use the key to lock the door as I go out.
It isnt possible to slam the door and have it lock without
using the key, so not possible to lock the keys in the house.

A more sensible lock. Mind you, I changed mine to electronic, the key fob is round my wrist, so I can't lose it or forget it. I can also unlock and open the door while my hands are full. I just hold my wrist near the door, then push the door open with my foot.

The one time I ever lost the keys was when I had just moved
into the house I had just built, well before it was even close
to being finished. I had rigged up a temporary bed by putting
an old door on a few concrete blocks in the second bathroom
which had had no work done on it at all. That had a number
of big earthenware pipes coming up thru the concrete slab
for stuff like the floor drain, the shower drain, the sink etc
which were completely open at the top.

I used to take a nap on that most days and managed to
have the keys fall out of my pocket, into one of those
drains without me noticing. After a lot of head scratching
I decided that that must have been what had happened
to the keys and sure enough, when I looked in the drain,
there they were.

I have also never run out of petrol in any car I have ever
driven except on the one occasion when I has picked up
a couple of Alsatian puppies from the state capital which
is more than one fill of petrol away from where I live.
I brought them home in the VW Beetle with the front
seat removed with the two puppies who where only
5 weeks old on some newspaper where the front
passenger's seat normally is. I did manage to forget
to fill up with petrol as I passed the place I usually
filled it on that run I did plenty of times.

Unless you have very far apart petrol stations, I don't see the problem. I just fill up whenever I see the gauge at 1/4 or less.

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

I once had the alarm break on a Ford Mondeo (M reg). It wouldn't stop
sounding, even though I had the key in my possession and could get into
the car. I called the AA. He reached under the dashboard below the
steering wheel and snipped the RED (!) wire. Alarm shut up, car worked
normally.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for
servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the
car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a
fundamental
flaw.

Talking of batteries, why can't they make a bonnet with a normal lock like
the boot?

Presumably the lock ends up filled with dead insects
and dirt etc. Much easier to avoid that at the back.

I'm sure it could be under something, like the boot lock of a VW Beetle (new type) under the badge which rotates.

The cable release always ends up breaking.

I've only ever had the one break, on a Golf.

Same here, on a Golf. And a Maestro, a Sierra, and an Espace. They all use the same cable. When the catch gets a bit stiff and rusty, and the cable too, it snaps.

--
A man and his wife are ****ing.
Fifteen minutes has passed, 30 minutes, then 45 minutes.
Sweat is pouring off both of them.
The wife finally looks up and says, "What's the matter darling, can't you think of anyone else either?"

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Fri, 08 Jan 2016 17:25:56 -0000, 879 wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:47:11 -0000, NY wrote:

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

I'm surprised that car/van locks are still made in such a way that it
is
possible to lock the door with the keys inside. If the front doors are
still
open, you'd think there would be an electronic override switch that
would
open the rear door.

As time progresses, vehicles have stupider and stupider electronic
systems,

No.

like locking the door ITSELF after a certain time if you leave the
vehicle
unattended. Of course the vehicle doesn't know the keys are in the
vehicle and not your pocket.

It does actually.

Even if it's supposed to sense them somehow,

In the same way it knows its in the car when you hit the engine start
button.

like mobile phones, signals aren't always 100%.

Perfectly possible to have it fail safe.

Except I've seen plenty that don't. If the sensor isn't sensitive enough,
it doesn't know the difference between no keys and can't quite see the
keys.

It does, because if it can't quite see the keys it will see them
intermittently.

It wont if the keys are with the owner who has walked away from that car.

I've never locked my keys inside any vehicle because I *always* keep
them
in
my pocket apart from when I'm using them to open a door (assuming the
remote
has failed) or to operate the ignition switch; and in the latter case I
always remove them as I am getting out of the car. I got into the habit
of
never putting the keys down anywhere (especially inside the car) even
for
a
few seconds. Likewise if I shut a house door that has a Yale lock, I
always
check that I have my keys in my pocket/hand before slamming the door.
It's
an ingrained habit, just like giving the gear lever a waggle to confirm
it's
in neutral before letting the clutch up at the end of a journey or
before
starting the engine (though in our new car I can't stat the engine
unless
the clutch is down).

You must be the 1% of the population with a perfectly working memory and
never gets distracted.

That is the whole point of getting into that sort of habit,
it keeps working in that situation.

Habits only work for good memory.

Wrong.

I can't even remember to clean my teeth or shave every day.

That's because of your Alzheimer's. Most don't have that problem.

Have you never unlocked a door and been carrying something large/heavy
and
had to put the keys down somewhere, then forget them?

No, never, because I don't have to put the keys down somewhere
in that situation. I can leave them in the lock until I put the
large/heavy
thing down and then take them out of the lock and do what I normally
do with them.

Which is why I often see people's keys in their front door.

No, that is because that is the only way to enable
anyone to get thru the door with badly designed locks.

Have you never been leaving he house and thought "oops I forgot to...."
and gone back in, interrupting your locking procedure?

Yes, but the locking procedure works fine in that situation too.

Most people would then forget to continue the procedure.

Most don't.

I pretty soon stopped using the Yale lock on my house and hid spare keys
in the garden aswell.

With mine I have to use the key to lock the door as I go out.
It isnt possible to slam the door and have it lock without
using the key, so not possible to lock the keys in the house.

A more sensible lock. Mind you, I changed mine to electronic, the key fob
is round my wrist, so I can't lose it or forget it.

Even better to have the phone do that and to not allow you
to leave without the phone, so you can't forget to take the
phone with you when you leave either. And can allow
anyone you like to unlock the door with any time limits
on that you like with their own phone so you can say
let the person who feeds the pets while you are away
or the cleaner or a service person let themselves in
and the system notifies you when that happens and
when they leave etc too.

I can also unlock and open the door while my hands are full. I just hold
my wrist near the door, then push the door open with my foot.

Much better if it unlocks whenever
you are within a few feet of the door.

The one time I ever lost the keys was when I had just moved
into the house I had just built, well before it was even close
to being finished. I had rigged up a temporary bed by putting
an old door on a few concrete blocks in the second bathroom
which had had no work done on it at all. That had a number
of big earthenware pipes coming up thru the concrete slab
for stuff like the floor drain, the shower drain, the sink etc
which were completely open at the top.

I used to take a nap on that most days and managed to
have the keys fall out of my pocket, into one of those
drains without me noticing. After a lot of head scratching
I decided that that must have been what had happened
to the keys and sure enough, when I looked in the drain,
there they were.

I have also never run out of petrol in any car I have ever
driven except on the one occasion when I has picked up
a couple of Alsatian puppies from the state capital which
is more than one fill of petrol away from where I live.
I brought them home in the VW Beetle with the front
seat removed with the two puppies who where only
5 weeks old on some newspaper where the front
passenger's seat normally is. I did manage to forget
to fill up with petrol as I passed the place I usually
filled it on that run I did plenty of times.

Unless you have very far apart petrol stations,

We do.

I don't see the problem. I just fill up whenever I see the gauge at 1/4
or less.

Doesn't work here at night on long distance trips
down that road.

It's reassuring that the locksmith is taking so long to get inside,
because
if an expert is having this much difficulty, so will the local scrote
car/van thieves.

I once had the alarm break on a Ford Mondeo (M reg). It wouldn't stop
sounding, even though I had the key in my possession and could get into
the car. I called the AA. He reached under the dashboard below the
steering wheel and snipped the RED (!) wire. Alarm shut up, car worked
normally.

A car that I borrowed from my local garage when my car was in for
servicing
had a key that had no blade and so there was no way of getting into the
car
if the remote key or the car battery failed. Seemed a bit of a
fundamental
flaw.

Talking of batteries, why can't they make a bonnet with a normal lock
like
the boot?

Presumably the lock ends up filled with dead insects
and dirt etc. Much easier to avoid that at the back.

I'm sure it could be under something, like the boot lock of a VW Beetle
(new type) under the badge which rotates.

More convenient to be able to unlock it
from inside the car in some situations.

Yes, a decent modern electronic lock would fix that.

The cable release always ends up breaking.

I've only ever had the one break, on a Golf.

Same here, on a Golf. And a Maestro, a Sierra, and an Espace. They all
use the same cable. When the catch gets a bit stiff and rusty, and the
cable too, it snaps.

Never happened on any of mine except the Golf.

And I never bothered to replace it, had the catch
end coming out the grill and just pulled on that
with the bent over end and the key ring in that
bend when I needed to open the bonnet. With
the wire pushed back into the grill with the bent
end stopping it going back inside completely.

On Sat, 09 Jan 2016 04:25:56 +1100, 879 wrote:

With mine I have to use the key to lock the door as I go out.
It isnt possible to slam the door and have it lock without using the
key, so not possible to lock the keys in the house.

I can slam lock the door but I'm pretty safe as I can use my phone to
unlock the door. Or another family member can.

In article ,
MM wrote:
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

Given it might be carrying a valuable cargo, I'd expect it to be more
secure than the average van?

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, January 2, 2016 at 2:19:53 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
MM wrote:
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

Given it might be carrying a valuable cargo, I'd expect it to be more
secure than the average van?

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It may be a custom built van (Luton bodied or some such)in which case the make and type of locks is anybodies guess

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.

"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

On 02/01/2016 19:35, Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!
What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.
I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

When Amazon stops ripping off Britain then I would worry about cutting
them a square deal.

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 20:07:45 +0000, soup
wrote:

On 02/01/2016 19:35, Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!
What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.
I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

When Amazon stops ripping off Britain then I would worry about cutting
them a square deal.

How on earth is Amazon ripping off Britain? They adhere to the tax
laws to the letter. If the tax laws are constructed in such a way that
legal loopholes are created, then I would recommend anyone to use
them. Did YOU never try to save tax?

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 20:07:45 +0000, soup
wrote:

On 02/01/2016 19:35, Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!
What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour
for.
I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

When Amazon stops ripping off Britain then I would worry about cutting
them a square deal.

How on earth is Amazon ripping off Britain? They adhere to the tax
laws to the letter. If the tax laws are constructed in such a way that
legal loopholes are created,

It isnt a legal loophole, its actually a problem with forcing
multinationals to pay the tax they should be paying when
its so easy to appear to be earning the profit in the jurisdiction
that pays no corporate income tax or a much lower rate of that.

then I would recommend anyone to use
them. Did YOU never try to save tax?

I have never avoided tax completely like Amazon, Apple etc do all the time.

On 03/01/2016 08:14, MM wrote:

How on earth is Amazon ripping off Britain? They adhere to the tax
laws to the letter. If the tax laws are constructed in such a way that
legal loopholes are created, then I would recommend anyone to use
them.


I never stated nor implied that what they were doing was in anyway
illegal. Immoral (in my opinion yes) but not illegal.
Despite what Lord Clyde says to avoid tax to that extent is immoral.

I agree that taking advantage of loopholes has been going on for
years^W as long as laws have existed, but that does not mean
people/companies should do it .

On 3 Jan 2016 11:56:00 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2016-01-03, MM wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 20:07:45 +0000, soup
wrote:

On 02/01/2016 19:35, Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!
What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.
I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

When Amazon stops ripping off Britain then I would worry about cutting
them a square deal.

How on earth is Amazon ripping off Britain? They adhere to the tax
laws to the letter. If the tax laws are constructed in such a way that
legal loopholes are created, then I would recommend anyone to use
them. Did YOU never try to save tax?

As Lord Clyde, Lord President of the Court of Session, noted (in Ayrshire
Pullman Motor Services v Inland Revenue [1929] 14 Tax Case 754, at 763):

"No man in the country is under the smallest obligation, moral or other,
so to arrange his legal relations to his business or property as to
enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel in his
stores. The Inland Revenue is not slow, and quite rightly, to take
every advantage which is open to it under the Taxing Statutes for the
purposes of depleting the taxpayer's pocket. And the taxpayer is in
like manner entitled to be astute to prevent, so far as he honestly
can, the depletion of his means by the Inland Revenue"

Hats off to that old lord for stating the obvious.

By comparison, you have Margaret Hodge.

I firmly believe it is in *every* taxpayer's interest to avoid any tax
wherever possible as long as it complies with the letter of the *law*.

MM

Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee
and the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire
hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

Then, you would starve.

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message
...
Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee
and the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire
hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

Then, you would starve.

You are talking ********.

--
Adam

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 20:44:50 -0000, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
wrote:

Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee
and the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire
hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

Then, you would starve.

That's not true. You don't have to rip people off to make a living.
You just need to a good job at a decent price, which may not be the
lowest quote, be reliable and finish when you said you would.

Not hard.

MM

"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message ...

Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee
and the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire
hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

Then, you would starve.

I haven't yet.
Anyway, thanks for adding to the list of your attributes as being a thieving
****e.

"Huge" wrote in message ...

On 2016-01-03, Richard wrote:
"Mr Pounder Esquire" wrote in message ...

Richard wrote:
"soup" wrote in message ...

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee
and the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire
hour for.

I'd do the job I was asked to do, without ripping off the customer.

Then, you would starve.

I haven't yet.

More's the pity.

WTF? Think I was calling you a thieving ****e. Well, as they say, if the cap
fits...

On Sat, 2 Jan 2016 19:08:00 +0000, soup
wrote:

On 02/01/2016 11:38, MM wrote:
Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!



What would you do ? Open it in two minutes and get just the call-out
fee or spin the job out to sixteen minutes and get the call-out fee and
the first part of an hour that you are able to charge an entire hour for.

I'd open the door as soon as I could. The attitude you appear to
condone is sadly redolent among many so-called professionals nowadays,
which is one reason why people turn to d-i-y whenever they can.

MM

The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive damage
as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of course :-)
Brian

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive
damage as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of
course :-)
Brian


Probably an auto locksmith.

As has been suggested, these probably aren't the standard van locks,
hence needing a specialist and taking longer.

I think most cars (and maybe standard vans?) can be got into using the
shaped metal strip down the side of the window to release the catch
technique
--
Chris French

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:07:52 +0000, Chris French wrote:

I think most cars (and maybe standard vans?) can be got into using the
shaped metal strip down the side of the window to release the catch
technique

A 12" steel rule with diagonal upward facing slot in the edge at one
end.

I think any car less than 10 years old has bits of plastic shroud to
prevent the link wires from the interior handle from being
manipulated.

It doesn't work if the car is hard locked. Many cars have two lock
states these days, a "soft" lock where the interior handle will open
the door, used when driving through dodgy areas and a "hard" lock
where it doesn't and all the alarms and imobilsation is set. Often
the first press of a remote only performs a soft lock a second press
is required for a hard lock. There may be a time out on the soft lock
to hard lock if the car thinks it is empty, the ignition is off etc.


Not that works if the door is locked



or they use a bowden cable or dead lAny modern car has plastic bits


end
--
Chris French


--
Cheers
Dave.

On 03/01/2016 11:07, Chris French wrote:
In message , Brian Gaff
writes
The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive
damage as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of
course :-)
Brian


Probably an auto locksmith.

As has been suggested, these probably aren't the standard van locks,
hence needing a specialist and taking longer.

I think most cars (and maybe standard vans?) can be got into using the
shaped metal strip down the side of the window to release the catch
technique

That used to be true but not with cars fitted with dead locks as most
new ones are these days.
Not that you needed to do that as most old ones could be opened using a
spoon handle as one shocked motorist found out when I extracted his keys
from a locked car.

On 03/01/2016 10:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive
damage as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of course
:-)
Brian

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM


The locksmith is unique in that the average person will probably only
need his services once or twice in their lifetime, at which point it
will be super urgent, and maybe in the middle of the night. Great that
there's someone out there to get you out of trouble, but expect to pay
through the nose.

On 03/01/2016 11:32, stuart noble wrote:
On 03/01/2016 10:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive
damage as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of course
:-)
Brian

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM


The locksmith is unique in that the average person will probably only
need his services once or twice in their lifetime, at which point it
will be super urgent, and maybe in the middle of the night. Great that
there's someone out there to get you out of trouble, but expect to pay
through the nose.

An acquaintance of mine lost his house key fairly late on a Sunday
evening. IIRC he had proper five lever mortise locks. Before I
discovered that we had a local guy, I had started thinking about which
window to break or force. The local man had him in inside an hour for
£60 or thereabouts with no damage to doors or locks. His number is now
in all our phones.

In message ,
newshound writes
On 03/01/2016 11:32, stuart noble wrote:
On 03/01/2016 10:12, Brian Gaff wrote:
The AA seem to be the experts at opening vehicles without expensive
damage as they have a database of keys and how to create one.

Not sure why they would call a normal locksmith, unless they are to
cheapskate to sign up their drivers to a motoring organisation of course
:-)
Brian

"MM" wrote in message
...
An Amazon Logistics delivery van came earlier to deliver a parcel. I
noticed that the van was still parked outside, blocking my drive, 30
minutes later. I asked the driver what was the problem, and he said
he'd locked his keys in the back of the van. Amazon sent an emergency
locksmith, who arrived 10 minutes ago. I'm rather surprised that he
hasn't got it open yet!

I don't need to go anywhere in a hurry, but as a matter of interest,
is it THAT difficult to open a van nowadays?

The locksmith is working on the side door, not the rear. (Not the
passenger door, the side door to the storage area.)

MM


The locksmith is unique in that the average person will probably only
need his services once or twice in their lifetime, at which point it
will be super urgent, and maybe in the middle of the night. Great that
there's someone out there to get you out of trouble, but expect to pay
through the nose.

An acquaintance of mine lost his house key fairly late on a Sunday
evening. IIRC he had proper five lever mortise locks. Before I
discovered that we had a local guy, I had started thinking about which
window to break or force. The local man had him in inside an hour for
£60 or thereabouts with no damage to doors or locks. His number is now
in all our phones.

My FIL managed to get a key stuck in our lock (it was the wrong key). We
weren't at home at the time, oherwise I could have probably broken in.

He called a lock smith and It was IIRC a similar price. Anyway, at the
time I thought it reasonable enough
--
Chris French