"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Tim

On 06/10/2015 23:26, Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)


Fixed so they pass emissions legislation? Or that they don't, but have
the cheat removed?

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.


Unless they're retrofitting AdBlue, which I doubt but I believe they
should, I don't think it's much more than a software bump. If it can be
done from a laptop and they contract out, inside 12 months.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Tuesday, October 6, 2015 at 11:28:58 PM UTC+1, Tim wrote:
"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Tim

But what are they going to do ? Adblue ?

Simon.

On 06/10/2015 23:26, Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020,

Forgetting the date, but what does "fixed" mean?
The cars will meet the emission test without a loss of normal driving
performance?
The only way to meet the emission test is to reduce the performance of
the engine by a significant amount?

I wonder what the resale value will be for an un-fixed car? And if the
fix involves a degraded performance what then is the resale value?


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote
Tim+ wrote

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal
in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020,

Forgetting the date, but what does "fixed" mean?

The cars will meet the emission test without a loss of normal driving
performance?

The only way to meet the emission test is to reduce the performance of the
engine by a significant amount?

Bet there is a reason Mueller didnt spell out the detail,
and why its going to take till 2020 to get it done.

I wonder what the resale value will be for an un-fixed car?

Basically depends on what the authoritys do about enforcing
the owners getting what the recall involves done.

And if the fix involves a degraded performance what then is the resale
value?

It remains to be seen what VW will
do compensation wise if that's true
and what the courts will force them
to do too.

Going to be interesting to see if VW
ever does publicly identify who did
the original scam. That must be
clear given how into documentation
the krauts are even with the gassing
of all those jews etc.

On Tue, 6 Oct 2015 22:26:51 +0000 (UTC), Tim+ wrote:

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020??

31 Dec 2020 is 1826 days from 1 Jan 2016.

How many cars are affected? 11 million?

So that's an average "fix" rate of 6,000+/day.

How many can a dealership do in a day?

Say 6.

How many dealerships are there in countries with affected vehicles?

1000 dealearships?

Seems to add up.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January,
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020

The end of *2016* according to the radio just now ...

My German is practically non-existant, but I tend to agree with the radio

"VW will Mängel an Fahrzeugen bis Ende 2016 beheben"

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/vw-abgasskandal/neuer-volkswagen-chef-vw-will-maengel-an-fahrzeugen-bis-2016-beheben-13842286.html

"Tim+" wrote in message
...

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34455328
and Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun both say by 2016.

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020??

Looks like whoever you quoted but didnt say, stuffed that date up.

I guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:01:18 -0700, sm_jamieson wrote:

But what are they going to do ? Adblue ?

Forget AdBlue. These are EuroV emission cars.

It's going to be a software tickle. The ECU has the ability already to
meet the NOx requirements - because it goes into a map that does that,
when it sees the test. All that's going to happen is that map'll be used
all the time.

Which'll reduce power and increase fuel consumption.

Adrian wrote:

It's going to be a software tickle.

Agreed

The ECU has the ability already to meet the NOx requirements -
because it goes into a map that does that, when it sees the test. All
that's going to happen is that map'll be used all the time.

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in
anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

The govt has already said they won't adjust VED, the MOT test has
nothing to say on the matter of NOx for diesels, why change any existing
cars (beyond removing the cheat to shut up the whiners)?

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 08:25:42 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

The ECU has the ability already to meet the NOx requirements - because
it goes into a map that does that, when it sees the test. All that's
going to happen is that map'll be used all the time.

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in
anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

The govt has already said they won't adjust VED, the MOT test has
nothing to say on the matter of NOx for diesels, why change any existing
cars (beyond removing the cheat to shut up the whiners)?

Because, as you say, just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring
the cars would fail EuroV certification, rendering their type approval
void.

On 07/10/2015 08:25, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian wrote:

It's going to be a software tickle.

Agreed

The ECU has the ability already to meet the NOx requirements -
because it goes into a map that does that, when it sees the test. All
that's going to happen is that map'll be used all the time.

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in
anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

The govt has already said they won't adjust VED, the MOT test has
nothing to say on the matter of NOx for diesels, why change any existing
cars (beyond removing the cheat to shut up the whiners)?


That's correct, but it won't meet Euro V, if they do that. I guess that
will be one for the lawyers: if the cars were sold as meeting Euro V but
only did it with the cheat mode on, will VW be forced to ensure they
comply without using it? Presumably, if they hadn't met spec in the
first place, they couldn't have been sold. Sadly, I think it's more
likely they'll alter the map to be at least a bit more like the cheat,
and kill efficiency.

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by
increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Adrian wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring
the cars would fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 08:41:57 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring the cars would
fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

Because there's allegations that the cars emit "more than 40x" the
permitted NOx, yet the US NOx requirement is not THAT much stricter than
EuroV.

Hell, if they really ARE emitting over 40x, then they'd fail every single
Euro standard back to the early '90s.

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 08:41:30 +0100, Chris Bartram wrote:

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by
increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Except they are DPF equipped.

It may well mean DPFs in cars used mainly for short journeys get clogged
more frequently, of course.

On 06/10/15 23:26, Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Tim


I had a phone call yesterday from the VW head office saying my diesel
was unaffected.

However, it took me sending back a snotty reply to one of their regular
"marketing survey" emails to get it.

MOT 2 weeks ago and a cambelt. VW agent knew nothing of whcih cars were
affected nor had had ANY communications from head office, making the
poor bugger look like a bit of a **** when customers like me were asking
if their particular engine was on the affected list.

Last week, another of the damnable "did you enjoy your service" emails
came by (well the coffee was nice and you emptied my wallet[1] as usual)


So the reply this time, and I quote from my sentbox:

================================================== ====
Dear Sir,

I noticed that the survey started with words along the lines of "we are
aware of the negative press...".

With all due respect: ********.

The *only* communications I want to hear from VW right now are "Dear Mr
Watts, your 2l diesel is/is not subject to recall".

So please don't insult me by sending out silly customer satisfaction
nonsense when there is an issue as large as that at hand.

Yours, etc
================================================== ====


That made it to the VW executive apparently...



[1] I know. And a mentioning in a previous post, I go to HiQ for
"ordinary" stuff like tyres, suspension bushes, brakes etc. But things
that involving having half the car in bits I don't really trust anyone
else but either VW or a VW specialist. And the VW specialist is in a
sodding awkward location...

Chris Bartram wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in
anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

it won't meet Euro V, if they do that.

Lots of conclusion jumping there ... the cheat seems to have been
designed for the more stringent USA test, plenty of other cars pass
Euro5 after all, of course that might mean *their* cheat modes are more
subtle and haven't been spotted yet.

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by
increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Do their 1.6 and 2.0 litre engines have a DPF? I'm wondering why it
doesn't affect the 3.0 versions, most of which don't have AdBlue fitted
in Europe ...

On 07/10/15 08:11, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2015 16:01:18 -0700, sm_jamieson wrote:

But what are they going to do ? Adblue ?

Forget AdBlue. These are EuroV emission cars.

It's going to be a software tickle. The ECU has the ability already to
meet the NOx requirements - because it goes into a map that does that,
when it sees the test. All that's going to happen is that map'll be used
all the time.

Which'll reduce power and increase fuel consumption.


It depends if the "tickle" will actually make it undriveable in practise
(large power reduction or excessive fuelling).

Tim Watts wrote:

The*only* communications I want to hear from VW right now are "Dear Mr
Watts, your 2l diesel is/is not subject to recall".

So is it only some of the different bhp tunings of the 2.0TDI that are
affected?

Adrian wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring the cars would
fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

Because there's allegations that the cars emit "more than 40x" the
permitted NOx, yet the US NOx requirement is not THAT much stricter than
EuroV.

Everyone knows that in the real world mpg and emissions numbers don't
match what they do under test conditions (assuming no cheating). How
much difference did the cheat mode make under test conditions 0.9x
normal? 0.5x normal? 0.025x normal sounds unlikely.

Hell, if they really ARE emitting over 40x, then they'd fail every single
Euro standard back to the early '90s.

And if one manufacturer's engines *are* that bad, you can pretty well
guarantee all other diesels are bad enough to fail too.

On 07/10/15 09:02, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

The*only* communications I want to hear from VW right now are "Dear Mr
Watts, your 2l diesel is/is not subject to recall".

So is it only some of the different bhp tunings of the 2.0TDI that are
affected?


I am not sure - I never understood if the different 2l engines were the
same lump or different blocks...

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Adrian wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring
the cars would fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

Because it wouldnt be there on european sold cars
unless it was necessary to get type approval in europe.

Hanny Z wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Adrian wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring
the cars would fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

Because it wouldnt be there on european sold cars
unless it was necessary to get type approval in europe.

Unless they didn't want different ECU variants for different continents?

On 06/10/2015 23:26, Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Latest is 'by end 2016'.

The fix is a software update but some may need new injectors and cats.

--
F

www.vulcantothesky.org - 2015, the last year to see a Vulcan fly

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 08:59:54 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

It's going to be a software tickle. The ECU has the ability already to
meet the NOx requirements - because it goes into a map that does that,
when it sees the test. All that's going to happen is that map'll be used
all the time.

Which'll reduce power and increase fuel consumption.


It depends if the "tickle" will actually make it undriveable in practise
(large power reduction or excessive fuelling).


A very small proportion of owners may have already had there cars
chipped , I suppose they will stay quiet and ignore the recall
notices, but then would the insurers have a mechanism to find out if a
car had not had the official fix and want to know why. Of course all
such people may be as honest as the day is long and told them about a
modified chip.

OTOH if the VW change does reduce performance to be noticeable the
after market chip makers/re programmers could be busy if word gets
around that such things can be done.
The vast majority of owners of such cars are not aware such things
are available being bought by ordinary family people rather than motor
enthusiasts but word could spread beyond the realm of them.

G.Harman

On 07/10/2015 08:43, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 08:41:30 +0100, Chris Bartram wrote:

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by
increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Except they are DPF equipped.

It may well mean DPFs in cars used mainly for short journeys get clogged
more frequently, of course.

I'd guess all of them would need more regen, and of course, yet more
fuel used to do that.

Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical or
different to drive.

What difference will it make to anything?

--
Chris Green
·

On 07/10/2015 08:59, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Bartram wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Or they'll simply remove the cheat mode which would never kick in
anyway, and leave them running exactly as they are today.

it won't meet Euro V, if they do that.

Lots of conclusion jumping there ... the cheat seems to have been
designed for the more stringent USA test, plenty of other cars pass
Euro5 after all, of course that might mean *their* cheat modes are more
subtle and haven't been spotted yet.

The other thing, IIRC, is that making it meet NOx emissions (probably by
increasing EGR?) will (again IIRC) increase particulates.

Do their 1.6 and 2.0 litre engines have a DPF? I'm wondering why it
doesn't affect the 3.0 versions, most of which don't have AdBlue fitted
in Europe ...

The 2.0 does for sure, and I'd imagine the 1.6 does too.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Hanny Z wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

Adrian wrote:

just removing the cheat does nothing beyond ensuring
the cars would fail EuroV certification

And you know that because ... ?

Because it wouldnt be there on european sold cars
unless it was necessary to get type approval in europe.

Unless they didn't want different ECU variants for different continents?

There isn't all that much difference in the NOx levels allowed in the US
and EU, so its likely it will fail the Euro5 certification without the cheat
given that the independent US testing showed it grossly exceeded the
US standards when tested in the real world without the cheat.

On 07/10/2015 10:06, wrote:

A very small proportion of owners may have already had there cars
chipped , I suppose they will stay quiet and ignore the recall
notices, but then would the insurers have a mechanism to find out if a
car had not had the official fix and want to know why.

I can't see insurers insisting on that- thousands of cars serviced
outside the dealer network will already be running old engine maps- my
car would be had I not paid an independent to update it after i had an
intermittent running problem.

Of course all
such people may be as honest as the day is long and told them about a
modified chip.

OTOH if the VW change does reduce performance to be noticeable the
after market chip makers/re programmers could be busy if word gets
around that such things can be done.

I thought it was already common knowledge?

On 07/10/2015 09:20, Tim Watts wrote:
On 07/10/15 09:02, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

The*only* communications I want to hear from VW right now are "Dear Mr
Watts, your 2l diesel is/is not subject to recall".

So is it only some of the different bhp tunings of the 2.0TDI that are
affected?


I am not sure - I never understood if the different 2l engines were the
same lump or different blocks...
IIRC, the older 2L in longitudinal applications is different for a
start, but I don't think that is relevant to the cars with the cheat, as
it's the PD, not the CR. Balancer shafts and the infamous oil pump
drive. The transverse ones were different.

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads...a-seat.140949/

On Wednesday, October 7, 2015 at 9:49:04 AM UTC+1, F wrote:
On 06/10/2015 23:26, Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

Latest is 'by end 2016'.

The fix is a software update but some may need new injectors and cats.


New injectors ? Changing the spray pattern and/or number of injections per cycle ?

Simon.

wrote in message ...
Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal
in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020??
I guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.

Because if they dont recall them, they will be forced to do that.

After the software change they won't be one iota more economical

Yes, likely worse on that.

or different to drive.

Bet they will be.

What difference will it make to anything?

It should see less emissions.

On 07/10/15 10:08, wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical or
different to drive.

What difference will it make to anything?


They produce less NOX and they *might* well be deficient in power or
mpg... No one knows for sure.

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020?? I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical or
different to drive.

Yes, they'll pass the NOx test (were they to take it)

What difference will it make to anything?

They'll consume more fuel and be more sluggish to drive.

Do we know that? I.e. is the change going to try and make them
'really' conform to the requirements all the time or are they just
going to remove the cheat?

--
Chris Green
·

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 07/10/15 10:08, wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

"VW expects to start a recall of cars affected by its emissions scandal
in
January, the car giant's new chief executive, Matthias Mueller, has
said.
All affected cars will be fixed by the end of 2020, he told German
newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitun"

Pleased to see some urgency at last! ;-)

Sheesh. I expected that this would take some time to sort out but 2020??
I
guess by then they'll have significantly fewer vehicles to deal with.

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical or
different to drive.

What difference will it make to anything?


They produce less NOX and they *might* well be deficient in power or
mpg... No one knows for sure.

We do know for sure that they will be, otherwise
there wouldnt have been any point in the cheat.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:52:15 +1100, Hanny Z wrote:

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical
or
different to drive.

What difference will it make to anything?

They produce less NOX and they *might* well be deficient in power
or
mpg... No one knows for sure.

We do know for sure that they will be, otherwise there wouldn t have
been any point in the cheat.

No the cheat was there purely to pass the emmisions tests. What
impact running in cheat mode has is unknown to us.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:13:02 +0100, Chris Bartram
wrote:



I can't see insurers insisting on that- thousands of cars serviced
outside the dealer network will already be running old engine maps- my
car would be had I not paid an independent to update it after i had an
intermittent running problem.

Of course all
such people may be as honest as the day is long and told them about a
modified chip.

I was more leaning to an insurer thinking why hasn't he had the
official update done is the owner hiding an after market
performance chip which we would class as a modification and charge
more for or use as a reason to invalidate a claim.


OTOH if the VW change does reduce performance to be noticeable the
after market chip makers/re programmers could be busy if word gets
around that such things can be done.

I thought it was already common knowledge?


Amongst the people who read things like usenet, the car pages in
newspapers etc it could be. But I reckon that many purchasers of cars
like VW and similar cars purchase one and just use it ,it is only when
it fails that how it works may come into consideration. Many do not
even read the owners manual fully to get the best use out of features
they may have, like the new manager where my other half works.
Same model of car as the missus more or less, when it was hot a while
back the missus opened the windows and sunroof from the fob via the
office window to let the car cool off, Manager "That's useful" Missus
"Yours should be the same try it " Manager " Ooo so it does"
She has had the car for four years.


G.Harman

On Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:52:57 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical
or
different to drive.

Yes, they'll pass the NOx test (were they to take it)

What difference will it make to anything?

They'll consume more fuel and be more sluggish to drive.

Do we know that? I.e. is the change going to try and make them
'really' conform to the requirements all the time or are they just
going to remove the cheat?

If they "just removed the cheat" then presumably there'd be some risk
that the govt might say that these vehicles would no longer be able to
pass their type-approval emission test or whatever it's called. If they
did that the vehicle could not, presumably, be legally driven.

If HMG or the EU did that the noise we've heard so far over this
would be a but and ants whisper. HMG have already stated that any
affected vehicles will not change VED band, full stop.

So instead they'll alter the "normal mode" to match "cheat mode" with
the consequences I listed above.

How do you know that "cheat mode" is much different to "normal mode"?
We don't know if talking 140 bhp/43 mpg (normal) to 137 bhp/41mpg
(cheat) or to 90 bhp/28mpg. The first cheat difference would be lost
in the noise of normal variations due to journey type, short round
town stop start, v 200 miles at 70 mph motorway. The second is
significant...

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Wed, 7 Oct 2015 20:52:15 +1100, Hanny Z wrote:

I don't really understand why they're recalling the cars at all.
After the software change they won't be one iota more economical
or
different to drive.

What difference will it make to anything?

They produce less NOX and they *might* well be deficient in power
or
mpg... No one knows for sure.

We do know for sure that they will be, otherwise there wouldn t have
been any point in the cheat.

No the cheat was there purely to pass the emmisions tests.

Yes, but we do know that they wouldn't have taken the
hell of a risk to have the cheat if running in that mode all
the time didn't have real downsides performance wise.

What impact running in cheat mode has is unknown to us.

That's not right either. It's well known what has to be done
to meet the most stringent emission standards and what
that does to the car's performance with both power and
fuel economy.