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Firewood loads and weights
Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers
of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? TIA -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
Firewood loads and weights
Bob Mannix wrote:
Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? Well in these parts, you knock on the door of the site office at the local woods and order either a "load" or a "half load" of logs. A load being the entire contents of a tipping flat bed transit based lorry. I would guestimate a full load at being 3 to 4 cu meters of logs. Don't know how that translates to weight.... Its quite good value however - I find a half load will last us the whole winter and only costs 25 quid. (although in our case the log fire is in addition to the central heating and is only for heating one room) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Firewood loads and weights
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Bob Mannix wrote: Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? Well in these parts, you knock on the door of the site office at the local woods and order either a "load" or a "half load" of logs. A load being the entire contents of a tipping flat bed transit based lorry. I would guestimate a full load at being 3 to 4 cu meters of logs. Don't know how that translates to weight.... Its quite good value however - I find a half load will last us the whole winter and only costs 25 quid. (although in our case the log fire is in addition to the central heating and is only for heating one room) Well, thanks for the info. We have the same requirements as you (as in brackets at the end). I suspect we live in different parts of the country if a half load is £25 to you :-( unless you live down south and no something I don't! -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
Firewood loads and weights
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well, thanks for the info. We have the same requirements as you (as in brackets at the end). I suspect we live in different parts of the country if a half load is ?25 to you :-( unless you live down south and no something I don't! Yup - down south (east).... in fact a few miles outside Southend so that ought to be south enough for you ;-) What sort of prices are you being quoted then? -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Firewood loads and weights
"John Rumm" wrote in message ... Bob Mannix wrote: Well, thanks for the info. We have the same requirements as you (as in brackets at the end). I suspect we live in different parts of the country if a half load is ?25 to you :-( unless you live down south and no something I don't! Yup - down south (east).... in fact a few miles outside Southend so that ought to be south enough for you ;-) What sort of prices are you being quoted then? Well, the only actual quote is from the jolly nice place with the managed woodlands, guaranteed seasoned hardwood, choose your wood even, nice smelling fircones for kindling for Christmas (and, it has to be said, excellent customer service) http://www.go-ni.co.uk/firewood/ and that is £58 a half load (~200 logs). This is a little more than I was hoping to pay - this is Oxfordshire though. Cheaper sources are likely to be mixtures of hard and soft wood, variably seasoned I guess, but even so... Needless to say the cheaper places (I hope) have (so far) failed to get back to me. Other suppliers are more like 300-350 logs per half load (I think) but that's probably because they are smaller logs. I await a couple of calls to be returned! -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
Firewood loads and weights
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 17:54:16 -0000, Bob Mannix
wrote: Well, the only actual quote is from the jolly nice place with the managed woodlands, guaranteed seasoned hardwood, choose your wood even, nice smelling fircones for kindling for Christmas (and, it has to be said, excellent customer service) http://www.go-ni.co.uk/firewood/ and that is £58 a half load (~200 logs). This is a little more than I was hoping to pay - this is Oxfordshire though. Bob, I used to live in Wytham near Oxford and I got logs from the Young Farmers. They did a charity thing every year selling wood by the sack (~10 logs) The wood was donated from some estate woodland and the money went to Sobel House (not the YF.) I can't remember the cost now but it might be worth contacting the local YF. Colin -- |
Firewood loads and weights
Bob Mannix wrote:
Well, the only actual quote is from the jolly nice place with the managed woodlands, guaranteed seasoned hardwood, choose your wood even, nice smelling fircones for kindling for Christmas (and, it has to be said, excellent customer service) http://www.go-ni.co.uk/firewood/ and that is ?58 a half load (~200 logs). This is a little more than I was hoping to pay - this is Oxfordshire though. Cheaper sources are likely to be mixtures of hard and soft wood, variably seasoned I guess, but even so... Needless to I would say the load I got was 90% assorted hardwoods and no pine cones! This year I noted they have nicely split all the logs into fireplace sized lumps - in previous years a little axe work was required on the larger logs -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
Firewood loads and weights
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:39:51 -0000, "Bob Mannix"
wrote: Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? Seldom retail, wholesale tends to be in tonnes and lots of 25tonnes (green) delivered hardwood ~GBP28/tonne. How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? It's a bit risky buying by the log, it depends how small they are split. The chap I work for sell dumpy bags (0.7m3) at GBP30 ex yard, they weigh about 300kg but about 40% of this is water, with the notable exception of ash, I know as I put them through the firewood dryer and re weighed them (plus took a small sample down to oven dry). In general split hardwood logs jumbled into a container occupy less than 50% of the space, the rest is air in between. Also, but this last summer may prove the exception, very little drying takes place in cordwood after the first few weeks of felling. The bark keeps moisture in and the moisture takes a while to diffuse out of the ends. Most firewood merchants store wood in the cord and process it just prior to delivery. Weight for weight when dried to similar moisture contents softwood has the edge on calorific value, however it starts much wetter and is more bulky. I still have the A3 fact sheet (4 sides A4) produced by the Forestry Commission (1985) I could send in exchange for a modest donation to red cross or medecin sans frontiers to cover postage. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
"Bob Mannix" wrote
| "John Rumm" wrote | a half load is £25 to you :-( unless you live down south and no | something I don't! | What sort of prices are you being quoted then? | Well, the only actual quote is from the jolly nice place with the managed | woodlands, guaranteed seasoned hardwood, choose your wood even, FFS is this for burning on the grate or turning into fruitbowls or banisters :-) Owain |
Firewood loads and weights
"Owain" wrote in message ... "Bob Mannix" wrote | "John Rumm" wrote | a half load is £25 to you :-( unless you live down south and no | something I don't! | What sort of prices are you being quoted then? | Well, the only actual quote is from the jolly nice place with the managed | woodlands, guaranteed seasoned hardwood, choose your wood even, FFS is this for burning on the grate or turning into fruitbowls or banisters :-) Burning on the grate, I'm afraid! I had a supplier recommended as well and he turned out to be £52 a half load so it looks like the price is determined by the area. I have ordered from him. Fortunately it's not our main form of heating! I can always go somewhere else next time. Thanks for all the replies |
Firewood loads and weights
"Andrew Heggie" wrote in message ... On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:39:51 -0000, "Bob Mannix" wrote: Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? snip I still have the A3 fact sheet (4 sides A4) produced by the Forestry Commission (1985) I could send in exchange for a modest donation to red cross or medecin sans frontiers to cover postage. I'll probably be OK thanks, but I'll stick a couple of quid in in exchange for your words next time I see a collecting box. Bob Mannix |
Firewood loads and weights
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:52:52 -0000, "Bob Mannix"
wrote: I still have the A3 fact sheet (4 sides A4) produced by the Forestry Commission (1985) I could send in exchange for a modest donation to red cross or medecin sans frontiers to cover postage. I'll probably be OK thanks, but I'll stick a couple of quid in in exchange for your words next time I see a collecting box. That's generosity, if all my postings on usenet were so rewarded...... As I see you are using an open grate watch out for larch and sweet chestnut in particular, they spit embers into the room, as do a lot of conifers to some extent. Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. When I started selling firewood I was determined to give good value for money, so I carefully worked out the likely heating value and pitched my price to be equivalent to coal. I could never understand why people continued to buy from other merchants who offered worse value. It took me a while to realise it was "luxury" being sold and people bought on the perceived price of "a load". My logs were dry, many people used coal as the base with logs on to, dry logs burned too fast and didn't sizzle. I suspect in a centrally heated house the chimney effect of the open fire evacuates more heat from the house than it contributes. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:52:52 -0000, "Bob Mannix" wrote: I still have the A3 fact sheet (4 sides A4) produced by the Forestry Commission (1985) I could send in exchange for a modest donation to red cross or medecin sans frontiers to cover postage. I'll probably be OK thanks, but I'll stick a couple of quid in in exchange for your words next time I see a collecting box. That's generosity, if all my postings on usenet were so rewarded...... As I see you are using an open grate watch out for larch and sweet chestnut in particular, they spit embers into the room, as do a lot of conifers to some extent. Mmm. Willow seems a bad spitter as well. Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. I am finding blackthon quite poor unless got up to really high temperatures. When I started selling firewood I was determined to give good value for money, so I carefully worked out the likely heating value and pitched my price to be equivalent to coal. I could never understand why people continued to buy from other merchants who offered worse value. It took me a while to realise it was "luxury" being sold and people bought on the perceived price of "a load". My logs were dry, many people used coal as the base with logs on to, dry logs burned too fast and didn't sizzle. Yes, but things are changing a bit now - around here we use wood fires as very much serious heat sources, although central heating is available as well. I suspect in a centrally heated house the chimney effect of the open fire evacuates more heat from the house than it contributes. No, I don't find that. Particularly in my house where underfloor vents feed the fire directly with icy cold air for burning. I would say that having the open fire both slightly ventilates the room and draws out hot steamy air, and adds between 3 and 5Kw to the heating of the room at full crack. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote: snip When I started selling firewood I was determined to give good value for money, so I carefully worked out the likely heating value and pitched my price to be equivalent to coal. I could never understand why people continued to buy from other merchants who offered worse value. It took me a while to realise it was "luxury" being sold and people bought on the perceived price of "a load". My logs were dry, many people used coal as the base with logs on to, dry logs burned too fast and didn't sizzle. snip AJH Andrew, do you still sell firewood and where in the country are you? N |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. ....but if well dried/seasoned are OK. We have been burning lots of aspen (=poplar) over the past couple of years simply because we had some large aspens felled. Now, after two years or so and especially after this years hot dry summer, it burns well. -- Chris Green ) |
Firewood loads and weights
In article ,
Andrew Heggie wrote: Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. I cut down a few large willow trees (not weeping willow) a few years ago and they seem to have seasoned into quite an acceptable wood for the woodburner. Weeping willow seasons ok to a low moisture, but feels quite light, and without much calorific value. -- Tony Williams. |
Firewood loads and weights
Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture
content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. Would you consider willow a hard wood ? I agree with the high moisture content but once dried willow burns well. IMO hawthorn and apple are best for burning but I have had a load of oak drying out all summer and it is burning fantastically. shame I only have 2 weeks supply left then out with saw to chop a load of elder. By the way has any one ever burnt conker ? |
Firewood loads and weights
Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture
content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. One of the best woods we have ever burnt was ELM !! This was dry though, but burnt long and hot with little ash. Are these to be avoided woods bad only when wet ? and which are the good ones then when wet / recently cut and logged ? Nick |
Firewood loads and weights
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:25:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote: I am finding blackthon quite poor unless got up to really high temperatures. It's a minor species so I do not have a lot of experience with it. It is often of small dimension and thus not split. Round logs take a bit more for the fire to take a hold (vertices heat up quickly to catch fire). I suspect in a centrally heated house the chimney effect of the open fire evacuates more heat from the house than it contributes. No, I don't find that. Particularly in my house where underfloor vents feed the fire directly with icy cold air for burning. I would say that having the open fire both slightly ventilates the room and draws out hot steamy air, and adds between 3 and 5Kw to the heating of the room at full crack. If you're happy with this I'm not tempted to dissuade you. It would make an interesting maths problem involving the temperature difference between room, flue gases and outside, mass flow of combustion products, draught of chimbly and radiant energy through about pi steradian?? from the hearth... Still, I'm no numbersmith AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:42:37 +0000, Nicknoxx
wrote: Andrew, do you still sell firewood and where in the country are you? Yup, some days I lob 58 tonnes onto the transport ;-) NW Surrey AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
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Firewood loads and weights
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:45:06 +0000 (GMT), Tony Williams
wrote: I cut down a few large willow trees (not weeping willow) a few years ago and they seem to have seasoned into quite an acceptable wood for the woodburner. Weeping willow seasons ok to a low moisture, but feels quite light, and without much calorific value. Yes it has a high initial moisture content and low oven dry bulk density. Hybrids can be very high yielding in trials of arable short rotation coppice, transport costs are a hindrance with water and density considerations. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
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Firewood loads and weights
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:32:14 -0000, "Nick" wrote:
Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. One of the best woods we have ever burnt was ELM !! This was dry though, but burnt long and hot with little ash. Yes, since the 70s a lot of elm has been available as dead standing wood, also the beetle forms galleries under the bark which bird subsequently knock off in their searches, so the pole desiccates standing. Green elm has a 140% water content dwb (IIRC). Are these to be avoided woods bad only when wet ? Yes. You can make a fairly good estimate of the heating value of wood by first subtracting the ash weight then multiplying the remaining dry wood weight by 18MJ and subtracting the water weight times 2.7MJ (this makes fairly broad assumptions about flue temperature). To refine this a bit you need to treat the proportions of lignin, cellulose and hemicellulose separately, lignin has the highest calorific value and forms a larger portion of conifer wood. and which are the good ones then when wet / recently cut and logged ? Ash by a long margin then probably birch and sycamore. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
Tony Williams wrote:
In article , Andrew Heggie wrote: Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. I cut down a few large willow trees (not weeping willow) a few years ago and they seem to have seasoned into quite an acceptable wood for the woodburner. Weeping willow seasons ok to a low moisture, but feels quite light, and without much calorific value. Willow is apparently the fastest way to acumulate combustible biomass. What it lacks in density it more than makes up in speed of growth. ISTR from a county show some years back that you can actually get heating plants designed to burn relatively wet willow cleanly.. ...in case anyone is faintly interested. |
Firewood loads and weights
Nick wrote:
Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. One of the best woods we have ever burnt was ELM !! This was dry though, but burnt long and hot with little ash. Are these to be avoided woods bad only when wet ? and which are the good ones then when wet / recently cut and logged ? Well, ash - good it seems. Hawthorn...not bad. Blackthorn/damson/wild cherry/all fruit trees - slow to catch and slow to burn, makes great charcoal. Oak - thats OK, but spits even when dry sometimes Poplar? Mmm. Think its good. Haven't burnt any for some time tho. Beech. Ditto. None around here. Leylandii - fantabulous stuff, but somehat TOO inflammable. Willow? Too wet to burn green easily, and may spit, but dries fast. Elm? what elm? :-) Elder. Good kindling once dried a bit. Sycamore. Mmm. Think its dense and slow burning. good. Field Maple. See sycamore. Very good. That's pretty much all I have in the woodpile right now. All basically burns once the fire is hot enough. Nick |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 08:25:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote: I am finding blackthon quite poor unless got up to really high temperatures. It's a minor species so I do not have a lot of experience with it. It is often of small dimension and thus not split. Round logs take a bit more for the fire to take a hold (vertices heat up quickly to catch fire). I suspect in a centrally heated house the chimney effect of the open fire evacuates more heat from the house than it contributes. No, I don't find that. Particularly in my house where underfloor vents feed the fire directly with icy cold air for burning. I would say that having the open fire both slightly ventilates the room and draws out hot steamy air, and adds between 3 and 5Kw to the heating of the room at full crack. If you're happy with this I'm not tempted to dissuade you. It would make an interesting maths problem involving the temperature difference between room, flue gases and outside, mass flow of combustion products, draught of chimbly and radiant energy through about pi steradian?? from the hearth... Actually its a lot easier. Run the CH at a given setting, and light the fire. Room gets warmer. QED. Prat. Still, I'm no numbersmith AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
Matches are made from aspen, but wax is added to sustain combustion and one, I believe the UK's biggest, supplier of kindling, uses oven dried poplar Aspen is poplar. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:32:14 -0000, "Nick" wrote: Hardwoods to avoid for poor burning (mostly simply high moisture content) poplar, willow, elm, holm oak and turkey oak. One of the best woods we have ever burnt was ELM !! This was dry though, but burnt long and hot with little ash. Yes, since the 70s a lot of elm has been available as dead standing wood, also the beetle forms galleries under the bark which bird subsequently knock off in their searches, so the pole desiccates standing. Green elm has a 140% water content dwb (IIRC). I have seen no elm worth burning standing since the 70's. Maxium height before infestation kills is usually less than 30 ft, and that usually corresponds to a bole of no more than 6" diameter. and which are the good ones then when wet / recently cut and logged ? Ash by a long margin then probably birch and sycamore. I'll add field maple to that, otherwise basically that is my impression from here as well, tho we have very little birch. AJH |
Firewood loads and weights
I have never paid cash for firewood, as its amazing how much you can collect from various places. The quality depends on how fully you are.
Not paying of cource means you have to work to collect it, so you fetch and carry & chop and dry and carry - all of which is joyy good exercise. I will chop peoples trees down for free, take the big logs and put the small stuff in a skip they provide. I have recently discovered a saw mill that dumps the stuff next to the road for you to take, of cource is still wet, and it needs cutting but its cheep Rick On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:39:51 -0000, "Bob Mannix" wrote: Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare different suppliers of logs. Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? TIA -- Bob Mannix (anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not) |
Firewood loads and weights
Ash by a long margin then probably birch and sycamore.
And lime can be burnt green |
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
standing. Green elm has a 140% water content dwb (IIRC). ???? can anyone explain that? -- Chris Green ) |
Firewood loads and weights
|
Firewood loads and weights
Andrew wrote:
On 29 Nov 2003 22:13:26 GMT, wrote: Andrew wrote: standing. Green elm has a 140% water content dwb (IIRC). ???? can anyone explain that? It was from memory so I did not refer it back to wet weight basis. The dry weight basis refers the water content to the oven dry weight of the wood so if the oven dry weight is 1kg the water content is 1.4kg and the total weight is 2.4kg. As a wet weight basis percentage this means the mc would be 1.4/2.4=58.3% hic :-) OK, makes sense, though it's a confusing use of a percentage. -- Chris Green ) |
Firewood loads and weights
"Bob Mannix" wrote:
Hello Bob BM| Having invested in a proper fire I am trying to compare BM| different suppliers of logs. BM| Is a "load" normally ~ a ton? Depends on the size of vehicle. It's like a spoonful - the actual quantity depends on the size of the spoon and whether it's heaped. BM| How many 8" logs (all other things being average) would one BM| expect in a load (roughly, obviously)? What you get from that supplier. It's all very vague I'm afraid. The weight depends on how wet they are, how many there are, what sort of wood and so on. The quantity depends on the supplier and local demand. Cowboys will stack the logs to take up more space, so look more impressive. Good guys will stack the logs to take up less space. The middle ground guys just check 'em in and let 'em fall. As to what vehicle - a Hilux is generic, expect around half a ton (wheelarches inside remember, and if it's panelled you'll lose a lot of logs). Transits more, usually a tonne (ish). Sometimes hard to find a decent, honest and reliable supplier - so most folks hang onto them when they do. -- Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/ |
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