supermarket fuel
 

On 24/08/15 18:04, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:55:57 +0000, Johnny B Good wrote:

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air

Indeed. Which is precisely why the timing of the injection is so
important on a diesel.

well of cpurse you are talimng direct njection.

Earlier diesels injected fuel into the inlet manifold and it was that
fuel air mixture that got compressed and went bang...

Oh and glow plugs play no part ion a diesel that is running.

C0old start only.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On 24/08/15 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Johnny B Good
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:19:35 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:

====snip====

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning
continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting
the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is
burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber).

I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine
injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of
TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of
the power stroke, give or take 25% or so.

Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

Yes and no.

Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder
injection is fairly new.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On 24/08/15 18:43, NY wrote:
"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning
continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting
the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel
is burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber).

I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine
injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of
TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of
the power stroke, give or take 25% or so.

Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used
injectors to define the timing of the ignition.


Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection.

So to put the issue of timing to bed:

- petrol engines draw fuel-and-air mixture into the cylinder on the
induction stroke and ignite it by a spark which is timed to occur just
before top dead centre; I believe some engines have a second spark
during the power stroke to ignite any unburnt fuel; the fuel-and-air
mixture used to be mixed in a carburettor and the fuel is now injected
into the inlet manifold; they always have a precisely controlled
proportion of fuel to air.

- diesel engines draw air into the cylinder, compress it to about 30:1
compression ratio (unlike about 7:1 for petrol) which causes it to heat
up to a temperature at which fuel will ignite on contact; shortly before
TDC the fuel is injected and this injection may continue for part of the
power stroke; they always have an excess of air relative to fuel.

So the spark of the petrol engine and the injection of the fuel of the
diesel engine both determine the "timing" of the engine in the same way.

Except that fuel injection will be a short while before actual ignition

For both types of engine, the air may be sucked in at atmospheric
pressure (normally-aspirated) or may be blown in at more than
atmospheric pressure by a turbo- or supercharger. Turbo/super chargers
fit more than the rated capacity of air into the cylinder, so allowing
more fuel to be injected and thus giving an increase in the effective
capacity of the engine.



(*) Ignoring possible variations in early development engines.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:07:45 +0100, newshound wrote:

They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic.

Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%,
possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do.

They do.

The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road
fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/
file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf

supermarket fuel
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/15 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Johnny B Good
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:19:35 +0100, Davey wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 15:00:59 +0100 The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 24/08/15 14:16, bert wrote:
In article , The Natural Philosopher
writes
On 22/08/15 10:35, Huge wrote:

====snip====

Diesels don't pink and have no ignition timing.

Wrong on both counts. Why am I not surprised?

No sorry Try as I might I can't find any ignition on my diesel.

Try looking inside the cylinders. Without ignition how the **** do you
think it runs at all?

Compression of the mixture?

No, just compression of the impounded air. There is no 'fuel/air
mixture' as such. The fuel is sprayed into the cylinder at very high
pressure to overcome the 'back pressure' of the compressed and heated
air where it is immediately ignited on contact with the air, burning
continuously in a manner analogous to the flame you get by igniting
the spray from a can of aerosol hair lacquer spray (or the way fuel is
burned in a jet engine's combustion chamber).

I don't know the exact details for typical high speed diesel engine
injection timings but, afaicr, the injection can start in advance of
TDC at higher revs and continues spraying for something like 50% of
the power stroke, give or take 25% or so.

Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

Yes and no.

Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection is fairly new.

Wrong.

Manifold injection, if it ever existed for diesels, has almost never been
the case. Indirect injection systems into a pre-combustion chamber (one
per cylinder) was the the common method up until about 10-15 years ago (in
cars) as it was easier to make this design quieter and smoother. Direct
cylinder inject has overtaken it though with the development of higher
pressure injection systems and better control of the injection system.

Direct injection systems though have been around for donkey's years in
commercial vehicles where the noise and harshness was less of an issue, but
economy more important.

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/2015 07:40, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 21:07:45 +0100, newshound wrote:

They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic.

Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%,
possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do.

They do.

The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road
fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/
file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf


That just says there is some, not that all petrol contains ethanol.

Things change quickly and I may well be out-of-date now, but at one time
ethanol added more to the price than FAME, so big suppliers could meet
the obligation by dosing diesel rather than petrol. Perhaps this has
changed with Ukranian ethanol.

supermarket fuel
 

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work.

--
*A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

supermarket fuel
 

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Earlier diesels injected fuel into the inlet manifold and it was that
fuel air mixture that got compressed and went bang...

And even earlier diesels had direct injection. Before WW2.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 11:22, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Ah, I'd assumed that the fuel/air mixture was ingested on the
downstroke, followed by the upward compression stroke which by
compressing, heated the air until it reached ignition temperature. Was
that never the case then - did diesels always have injectors?

Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work.

well technically model aircraft diesel engines are diesels in that they
run as carburated compression ignition engines. However they run on
paraffin oil and ether mixtures, with the ether doing the main job of
ignition.

I don't think I've ever seen a diesel that ran on 'diesel' fuel with a
carburettor but I *may* have seen a paraffin engine with a carb - think
it was started with petrol and a glow plug..cant remember..

....here ya go/. Original tractor design of engine with carburettor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrol-paraffin_engine

Once its hot enough to vapourise the actual paraffin, then it works. Bit
like a primus.

Hmm they seem to use spark ignition. I am sure there are some full size
tractors using carburation from back in the day..nope. Wiki says not.

Always have been injected apart from model aircraft ones that use ether
to get compression ignition going


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used
injectors to define the timing of the ignition.


Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection.

Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion
chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel as a
spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion - isn't it?

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the
induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to
just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to a
high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of combustion extremely
variable, without any control over the duration of combustion, whereas
injection into the pre-heated air allows a long period of injection to give
prolonged burn.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

supermarket fuel
 

"NY" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
To the best of my knowledge, diesel engines have "always" (*) used
injectors to define the timing of the ignition.


Nope. Tractors often use(d) manifold injection.

Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion
chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel as
a spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion - isn't
it?

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during the
induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as opposed to
just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been compressed to
a high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of combustion
extremely variable, without any control over the duration of combustion,
whereas injection into the pre-heated air allows a long period of
injection to give prolonged burn.

Also, you don't want the chance that detonation could occur *before* TDC
otherwise the increased pressure of the combustion gases would try to turn
the engine backwards - which at the very least if it only happened
occasionally would result in dramatic loss of power as the engine has to
"fight against" the rogue pre-TDC explosion.

It only needs the engine to get a bit hotter than normal and
ignition-by-compression could occur before TDC.

Anyway, all modern diesels have one injector (at least) per cylinder and it
is the moment of injection which determines the moment of combustion. I've
never seen a diesel engine (turbo or non-turbo, direct or indirect
injection) which didn't have one injector per cylinder.

supermarket fuel
 

"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that ignite
a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel into
combustion-heated air?

supermarket fuel
 

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection
is fairly new.



completely wrong unless you are thinking of the early hot bulb diesel
engines from 1891

and even then the fuel was not injected into the manifold



-

supermarket fuel
 

"Mark" wrote:
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


Manifold injection has nearly always been the case, but cylinder injection
is fairly new.



completely wrong unless you are thinking of the early hot bulb diesel
engines from 1891

and even then the fuel was not injected into the manifold


I can only assume that he's got it muddled with petrol injection. Not that
he'll ever admit that...

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 16:16, NY wrote:
Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature? Didn't that make the timing of
combustion extremely variable, without any control over the duration of
combustion, whereas injection into the pre-heated air allows a long
period of injection to give prolonged burn.


yes,. yes and yes, which is why it aint used much these days - i've only seen it on tractors

******* to start - we ended up throwing a diesel soaked rag into the manifold and lighting it. Once started we closed up the manifold after removing rag



Gloplug was ineffective

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 16:24, NY wrote:

I've never seen a diesel engine (turbo or non-turbo, direct or indirect
injection) which didn't have one injector per cylinder.

I have - ancient tractor thing.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

Tim+ wrote:
The Natural wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

Tim

I've seen crankcase injection on small petrol engines, don't know if it
was applied to larger two stroke diesels.

supermarket fuel
 

Capitol wrote:
Tim+ wrote:
The Natural wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

Tim

I've seen crankcase injection on small petrol engines, don't know if it
was applied to larger two stroke diesels.

I can't see it ever being an attractive way of doing things. No control
over "ignition" timing so probably only suitable for engines with very
limited rev ranges.

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Diesel doesn't atomise like petrol so a carb wouldn't work.

well technically model aircraft diesel engines are diesels in that they
run as carburated compression ignition engines.

But don't run on diesel.

Oh - their efficiency is horrendous. Scaled up, the equivalent of a car
doing about 1 mpg.

--
*You can't trust atoms - they make up everything.
Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

supermarket fuel
 

Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used
either a swirl chamber or direct injection

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701

the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is
at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air.

excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which
is not a heavy Diesel oil at all.

supermarket fuel
 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 16:16:16 +0100, NY wrote:

Irrespective of *where* the fuel is injected (manifold, pre-combustion
chamber or direct into cylinder) it is the injection of a dose of fuel
as a spray of tiny droplets which determines the moment of combustion -
isn't it?

Injection into the manifold separates the injection timing from the
combustion, promoting valve timing instead.

supermarket fuel
 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 08:42:36 +0100, Tim+ wrote:

Direct injection systems though have been around for donkey's years in
commercial vehicles where the noise and harshness was less of an issue,
but economy more important.

Ah, the Perkins Prima, as used in Maestros and Montegos...

supermarket fuel
 

On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 10:36:56 +0100, newshound wrote:

They all contain ethanol which is hygroscopic.

Got a link for that for UK fuels? They are *permitted* to contain 5%,
possibly to be increased soon. Doesn't mean they do.

They do.

The RTFO is a gov't target for a minimum of (currently) 4.75% of road
fuel by volume to be bioethanol, rather than extract of dinosaur.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...tachment_data/
file/371589/rtfo-2014-15-year-7-report-1.pdf

That just says there is some, not that all petrol contains ethanol.

It says that 5.01% in ANY fuel is illegal.
It says that 4.75% across ALL fuel is the target.

You do the maths.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:
"dennis@home" wrote in message
b.com...
On 25/08/2015 16:16, NY wrote:

Or are you saying that some engines injected fuel into cool air during
the induction stroke, then compressed the fuel-and-air mixture (as
opposed to just the air) and let combustion occur when the air had been
compressed to a high enough temperature?

There are engines like that.
I once had a two stroke compression ignition engine that did that.
Used to drive a six inch prop.

OK. Fair enough.

But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

none. twas a tractor

Tim



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote:
Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used
either a swirl chamber or direct injection

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701

the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a diesel is
at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air.

excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel" which
is not a heavy Diesel oil at all.

Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction with a platinum glow plug.

They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition 2-strokes running off paraffin and ether.





--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:


But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

none. twas a tractor

So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines.
" did you fail to understand?

I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either.

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

On 26/08/15 07:58, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:


But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

none. twas a tractor

So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines.
" did you fail to understand?

The part that came after I had made that comment.


I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either.

Believe what you want. I cant stop acts of faith and dogma ;-)


Tim



--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

supermarket fuel
 

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/15 07:58, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 17:10, Tim+ wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 16:27, NY wrote:


But as the title of the thread is "supermarket fuel", let's confine
ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines. Are there any of those that
ignite a fuel-and-air mixture by compression, rather than injecting fuel
into combustion-heated air?

Not made in the last 25 years, no



So which car/van/lorry used manifold injection in 1990, or 1980, or 1970,
or 1960, or even 1950?

none. twas a tractor

So which part of " let's confine ourselves to car (and van/lorry) engines.
" did you fail to understand?

The part that came after I had made that comment.


I don't believe the tractor was only 25 years old either.

Believe what you want. I cant stop acts of faith and dogma ;-)

Name a tractor with manifold injection then (either made as recently as 25
years ago or *ever*). Making stuff up doesn't count as evidence.

You do realise that IDI (indirect injection) does NOT mean manifold
injection do you? I'm seriously beginning to wonder...

Tim

supermarket fuel
 

On 25/08/2015 23:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote:
Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used
either a swirl chamber or direct injection

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701


the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a
diesel is
at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air.

excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel"
which
is not a heavy Diesel oil at all.

Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction
with a platinum glow plug.

They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition
2-strokes running off paraffin and ether.



Mine didn't have a glowplug at all. It was purely CI.
There were other engines that had glowplugs and you attached a big
battery to get the engine to start. Mine you just used a recoil starter
until it went, usually on the first or second try if I had mixed the
fuel correctly.

I forget the exact mixture but it had castor oil in it so probably not
the safest stuff to burn.

supermarket fuel
 

On 26/08/15 09:28, dennis@home wrote:
On 25/08/2015 23:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 25/08/15 18:10, Mark wrote:
Every Diesel car/van/truck engine made from as for back as 1950 has used
either a swirl chamber or direct injection

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=di...w=1024&bih=701



the ignition, firing or start of burn call it what you like of a
diesel is
at the moment of injection of fuel into compressed heated air.

excluding of course model plane/boat CI engines that use "glow fuel"
which
is not a heavy Diesel oil at all.

Glow engines are methanol engines that ignite via catalytic reaction
with a platinum glow plug.

They are NOT model diesel engines which are compression ignition
2-strokes running off paraffin and ether.



Mine didn't have a glowplug at all. It was purely CI.

It was a diesel, not a glo engine.

There were other engines that had glowplugs and you attached a big
battery to get the engine to start. Mine you just used a recoil starter
until it went, usually on the first or second try if I had mixed the
fuel correctly.

Lucky you. I had one diesel that used to start about once a day if I was lucky.


I forget the exact mixture but it had castor oil in it so probably not
the safest stuff to burn.

generally 33/33/33 castor, paraffin and ether with a few percent of amyl nitrate IIRC.



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