Hi,

I've not posted here before but it looks like a well established group so I'm hoping I can get some help.

I've managed to avoid DIY most of my life but I can put a fence post in and replace a panel. I know how to use a saw and a drill and I can put up shelves. That's about it. So please use "baby talk" with me!

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has inspired me to try and build a lean-to over the patio that is going to be laid for me next week. I've also got some text instructions on how this thing is made - http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html. So that's what I'm talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions it talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the house. But my plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside of the area of the patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily? Most things in B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are that long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube video where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and also, you could replace the wood later without digging up the concrete. Is this a common idea? Is there something pre-made that I could use instead?

Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof and what might be best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate transparent sheets or transparent corrugated sheets) and what size sheets. I'm also thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards would be nice so perhaps some extra bit of wood running the length of it that might somehow support a ladder.

Thanks.

Peter.

Peter Smithson wrote:

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has
inspired me to try and build a lean-to over the patio
http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html

The text instruction is for a more basic lean-to than the video, I don't
generally rate ehow articles, that one is "a bit american", make sure
you use a level rather more often than it mentions to make sure posts
are set vertical and rails horizontal etc.

My questions are related to the size of it.
Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily?
Most things in B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

Wickes do treated timber up to 4.8m, or a timber yard.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Building-Materials/Timber/Constructional-Carcassing-Timber/Treated-Regularised-Kiln-Dried-C16-Timber/c/1000204?q=%3AtopSellers%3ALength%3A4800+mm&text=#

Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are
that long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Do a fag packet sketch (or SketchUp model) of it to see what the angle
will look like, or how far up the wall you'll need to go to, are you
thinking of OSB or ply for the roof like the ehow, or polycarbonate like
the video, or e.g. coruline?

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 08:12:00 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

Do a fag packet sketch (or SketchUp model) of it to see what the angle
will look like, or how far up the wall you'll need to go to, are you
thinking of OSB or ply for the roof like the ehow, or polycarbonate like
the video, or e.g. coruline?

OSB? Thinking of polycarbonate or corrugated sheets. Not sure which!

Thanks.

Peter Smithson wrote:
OSB?

Oriented strand board aka sterling board, I think it's what the ehow one
used, it would make it a bit dingy.

Peter Smithson wrote

I've not posted here before but it looks like a well
established group so I'm hoping I can get some help.

I've managed to avoid DIY most of my life but I can put
a fence post in and replace a panel. I know how to use
a saw and a drill and I can put up shelves. That's about
it. So please use "baby talk" with me!

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4
has inspired me to try and build a lean-to over the patio that is
going to be laid for me next week. I've also got some text
instructions on how this thing is made
http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html.
So that's what I'm talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions
it talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the house.
But my plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside of the area
of the patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily?

With trusses, sure.

Most things in B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

Will they be strong enough to support a
persons weight when they are that long?

Yes, that sort of thing is designed to handle wind
loading which is worse than someone's weight.

I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

No, that determines whether you can stand on what you
have for the roof and whether you can stand on that.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Really depends on the result you want roof wise.
I'd have the 4m version myself.

Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube
video where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and also,
you could replace the wood later without digging up the concrete. Is
this a common idea?

Yes but I have never liked the look of that myself and would use
steel posts instead, what is called RHS, rectangular hollow section.
That doesn't rot particularly if they are galvanised and so won't
need replacing.

Is there something pre-made that I could use instead?

Yes, you can buy those things premade.

Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof

That is basically determined by what you use of a roof and
what it can handle rain water wise. It isn't much at all with
metal decking but needs to be more with other roofs.

and what might be best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate
transparent sheets or transparent corrugated sheets)

Really depends on what you want it to look like.

and what size sheets.

And that what you choose to use. Metal decking is normally
cut to the length you want and is a continuous sheet from
the wall its attached to to the outer edge.

I'm also thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards

There is something to be said for no gutters at all and just
letting the rain fall off the edge onto the edge of the patio.
Much simpler to do and no maintenance required.

would be nice so perhaps some extra bit of wood running
the length of it that might somehow support a ladder.

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 08:45:26 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

Will they be strong enough to support a
persons weight when they are that long?

Yes, that sort of thing is designed to handle wind
loading which is worse than someone's weight.

I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

No, that determines whether you can stand on what you
have for the roof and whether you can stand on that.

I found this page - http://constructitall.com/9-uncatego...a-rafters.html

It seems to suggest (assuming I put them 24" apart) that I need 200mm wide rafters/joists rather than the 100mm used in video.

and what size sheets.

And that what you choose to use. Metal decking is normally
cut to the length you want and is a continuous sheet from
the wall its attached to to the outer edge.

Sorry to be thick - what does Metal decking have to do with it? (I'm not sure what it is either). I'm using wooden stuff and something for the roof that is transparent.


I'm also thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards

There is something to be said for no gutters at all and just
letting the rain fall off the edge onto the edge of the patio.
Much simpler to do and no maintenance required.

I meant to say - access to the existing gutters on the house which will be above the lean to. With the lean to in place, you can't put a ladder on the ground and get to the gutters so was thinking you'd want to somehow put a ladder on the lean to.

Thanks.

Peter Smithson wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Will they be strong enough to support a
persons weight when they are that long?

Yes, that sort of thing is designed to handle wind
loading which is worse than someone's weight.

I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

No, that determines whether you can stand on what you
have for the roof and whether you can stand on that.

I found this page -
http://constructitall.com/9-uncatego...a-rafters.html

It seems to suggest (assuming I put them 24" apart) that I need
200mm wide rafters/joists rather than the 100mm used in video.

Yeah, its best to use that sort of calculator, but you need to be
sure that its relevant to your area, particularly if it allows for
snow on there if you do get that sort of snow yourself.

and what size sheets.

And that what you choose to use. Metal decking is normally
cut to the length you want and is a continuous sheet from
the wall its attached to to the outer edge.

Sorry to be thick - what does Metal decking have to do with it?

Its one way to do the roof of something like that.

(I'm not sure what it is either).

It's a bit like corrugated iron but comes in heavier
gauge metal that sort of clips together.
www.google.com/search?q=metal+decking&tbm=isch

I'm using wooden stuff and something for the roof that is transparent.

It wasn't clear from your original that you had decided on a transparent
roof.

And if you do go for the 4m depth, there is something ot be said for
using metal girders and steel posts with wooden rafters on top of that.
http://img.weiku.com/waterpicture/20... 9490476_4.jpg

I'm also thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards

There is something to be said for no gutters at all and just
letting the rain fall off the edge onto the edge of the patio.
Much simpler to do and no maintenance required.

I meant to say - access to the existing gutters
on the house which will be above the lean to.

OK, that is certainly a problem.

With the lean to in place, you can't put a ladder on
the ground and get to the gutters so was thinking
you'd want to somehow put a ladder on the lean to.

I would be reluctant to do that on a transparent lean to roof.

It would be possible to make some sort of plank like thing
that the bottom of the ladder is attached to that is there
on top of the transparent roof while cleaning the gutters
and is temporarily attached so it wont slide on the roof
but with your baby steps in diy it's a big ask to make that
completely safe.

A permanent thing on the roof would be a bit easier, but
would obviously be visible thru the transparent roof.

Wouldn't necessarily look to bad tho if done right, but
if you have trees anywhere near there you will got quite
a lot of the leave and stuff accumulating there so it wont
look great from the patio quite quickly.

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 21:42:25 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

It would be possible to make some sort of plank like thing
that the bottom of the ladder is attached to that is there
on top of the transparent roof while cleaning the gutters
and is temporarily attached so it wont slide on the roof
but with your baby steps in diy it's a big ask to make that
completely safe.

A permanent thing on the roof would be a bit easier, but
would obviously be visible thru the transparent roof.

Wouldn't necessarily look to bad tho if done right, but
if you have trees anywhere near there you will got quite
a lot of the leave and stuff accumulating there so it wont
look great from the patio quite quickly.

Perhaps I should worry about that later. I have a friend who is good with metal. Perhaps an L shaped long (perhaps not the entire length of lean to) strip of metal that clips into some permanent coach bolts would do the trick. The ladder would go into the L shape so that it can't slide down. I'm sure he could figure something out for me. It could lie out of the way next to the wall but still on top of the lean to when not in use.

"Peter Smithson" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 2 August 2015 21:42:25 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

It would be possible to make some sort of plank like thing
that the bottom of the ladder is attached to that is there
on top of the transparent roof while cleaning the gutters
and is temporarily attached so it wont slide on the roof
but with your baby steps in diy it's a big ask to make that
completely safe.

A permanent thing on the roof would be a bit easier, but
would obviously be visible thru the transparent roof.

Wouldn't necessarily look to bad tho if done right, but
if you have trees anywhere near there you will got quite
a lot of the leave and stuff accumulating there so it wont
look great from the patio quite quickly.

Perhaps I should worry about that later. I have a friend who
is good with metal. Perhaps an L shaped long (perhaps not
the entire length of lean to) strip of metal that clips into some
permanent coach bolts would do the trick. The ladder would
go into the L shape so that it can't slide down. I'm sure he
could figure something out for me. It could lie out of the way
next to the wall but still on top of the lean to when not in use.

Yeah, that would work well.

On 02/08/15 07:27, Peter Smithson wrote:

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has inspired
me to try and build a lean-to over the patio that is going to be laid
for me next week. I've also got some text instructions on how this
thing is made -
http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html. So that's
what I'm talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions
it talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the
house. But my plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside
of the area of the patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from
the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily? Most things in
B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

4.8m is available - and longer may be possible.


Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are
that long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

I suspect 6x2" rafters would be wise over 4m. You have to allow for snow
loading and the fact that at some point someone will want to climb on it
to access the upstairs for maintenance.

Dave the Medway Handyman builds lots of decking and other garden timber
projects - he'll be able to give better numbers than me.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube
video where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and
also, you could replace the wood later without digging up the
concrete. Is this a common idea? Is there something pre-made that I
could use instead?

Dunno - but yes, it is a very good idea.


Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof and what might
be best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate transparent sheets or
transparent corrugated sheets) and what size sheets.

It's likely to be noisy when it rains.

I'm also
thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards would be nice so
perhaps some extra bit of wood running the length of it that might
somehow support a ladder.

Or make a section easily removable so you can poke the ladder through it.

Thanks.

Peter.


A lateral idea:

Build it without a covering (open frame) and grow some vines, climbers
or some plants over it.

Add a pull out roller awning (like shops used to have) that pulls out
under (or over) the whole thing.

One of our pubs did this. It's nice when it's open in summer with the
plants providing shade. It looks nice. And the awning deals with the
rain without the disadvantages of a polycarb roof.
You'd be better off with a timber merchant who can deliver.

To do a price up, have a look he

http://www.edecks.co.uk/subdept/102/...h_Sawn_Timbers

That will give you the standard sizes and prices. Timber merchants are
notorious for fleecing the public so it's best to go prepared to negotiate.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 07:27, Peter Smithson wrote:

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has inspired
me to try and build a lean-to over the patio that is going to be laid
for me next week. I've also got some text instructions on how this
thing is made -
http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html. So that's
what I'm talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions
it talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the
house. But my plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside
of the area of the patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from
the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily? Most things in
B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

4.8m is available - and longer may be possible.


Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are
that long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

I suspect 6x2" rafters would be wise over 4m. You have to allow for snow
loading and the fact that at some point someone will want to climb on it
to access the upstairs for maintenance.

Dave the Medway Handyman builds lots of decking and other garden timber
projects - he'll be able to give better numbers than me.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube
video where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and
also, you could replace the wood later without digging up the
concrete. Is this a common idea? Is there something pre-made that I
could use instead?

Dunno - but yes, it is a very good idea.


Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof and what might
be best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate transparent sheets or
transparent corrugated sheets) and what size sheets.

It's likely to be noisy when it rains.

I'm also
thinking that some access to the gutters afterwards would be nice so
perhaps some extra bit of wood running the length of it that might
somehow support a ladder.

Or make a section easily removable so you can poke the ladder through it.

Thanks.

Peter.


A lateral idea:

Build it without a covering (open frame) and grow some vines, climbers
or some plants over it.

Add a pull out roller awning (like shops used to have) that pulls out
under (or over) the whole thing.

One of our pubs did this. It's nice when it's open in summer with the
plants providing shade. It looks nice. And the awning deals with the
rain without the disadvantages of a polycarb roof.
You'd be better off with a timber merchant who can deliver.

To do a price up, have a look he

http://www.edecks.co.uk/subdept/102/...h_Sawn_Timbers

That will give you the standard sizes and prices. Timber merchants are
notorious for fleecing the public so it's best to go prepared to negotiate.

The building regulations gives the span and timber sizes for flat
roofs, which is applicable IMO.

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 09:56:17 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

Build it without a covering (open frame) and grow some vines, climbers
or some plants over it.

Add a pull out roller awning (like shops used to have) that pulls out
under (or over) the whole thing.

A friend suggested that but we have a very strange house. We just moved in and the washing machine and dryer are outside! They are in a big green plastic box. We thought some permanent cover would be good so we can do laundry in rain without getting wet. The wife also has a wicker hanging chair that she'd like to have out permanently. So looking for a permanent cover of some sort and this seemed to be cheapest way.

Cheers.

On Sat, 01 Aug 2015 23:27:32 -0700, Peter Smithson wrote:

Hi,

I've not posted here before but it looks like a well established group
so I'm hoping I can get some help.

I've managed to avoid DIY most of my life but I can put a fence post in
and replace a panel. I know how to use a saw and a drill and I can put
up shelves. That's about it. So please use "baby talk" with me!

This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has inspired me
to try and build a lean-to over the patio that is going to be laid for
me next week. I've also got some text instructions on how this thing is
made - http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html. So
that's what I'm talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions it
talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the house. But
my plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside of the area of
the patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily? Most things in
B&Q seem to go up to about 3m.

Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are
that long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?

Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube
video where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and also,
you could replace the wood later without digging up the concrete. Is
this a common idea? Is there something pre-made that I could use
instead?

Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof and what might be
best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate transparent sheets or
transparent corrugated sheets) and what size sheets. I'm also thinking
that some access to the gutters afterwards would be nice so perhaps some
extra bit of wood running the length of it that might somehow support a
ladder.

We have a covered deck which goes out about 2.4m.
This is connected to a single storey extension which is about 2.6m.
So in total about 5m.

Rafters are nominal 2*5 at 1m spacing (apologies for the Imperial/Metric
mix) which is pushing the boundaries for the plastic twin-wall sheeting we
are using. For rafters nearly twice as long you may well have to use
larger timbers. There should be plenty of on line resources for
calculating the rafter sizes for a given span and spacing.

Your biggest issue is going to be the slope on the roof - a lot of roofing
systems specify a minimum fall (about 15 degrees if my failing memory
serves me) and we went below this to get the tin roof and plastic roof at
the same slope and still fitting under the upstairs windows.

So - first thing, measure the height from the bottom of your lowest
upstairs window (or other item which needs to be above the flashing) and
the height of the outer edge of your roof (you will probably need at least
2m clearance to avoid tall people banging their heads) from the bottom of
the supporting cross piece.

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...nion%20Veranda
%20Carport/DSC_0890.jpg

This should give you an idea of the finished result.

You should be able to see that we used powder coated steel for the
uprights. The horizontal member which supports the joists is made up of
50mm * 8" nominal steel plate sandwiched between two 2 * 8 timbers.

This is a very strong support resting on the powder coated 4"/100mm square
box section steels.

We sized it this way to give the maximum reasonable clear space across the
deck, instead of having more regular, lighter uprights. The space between
the uprights is about the same as our folding doors so you have an
uninterrupted view of the garden.

I have loads of bits of information stashed away and will try and add more
later.

For the joists, go to a builders' merchants in preference to B&Q - they
deal with house construction and have bigger bits of timber.

As well as the roofing you will need a fixing system to hold the roofing
in place - generally called glazing bars - assuming that you are using
flat twin walled polycarbonate.

Corrugated plastic is easier to fix but to me seems a lot more tacky and
flimsy. Then again I tend to over engineer.

Find a specialist supplier of roofing plastic and they should also have an
advice service which can specify timber sizes and all appropriate fixings.

https://www.cabp.co.uk/

and

http://fascias.com/index.php?route=common/home

are two examples.

Cheers

Dave R



--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 14:21:09 UTC+1, David wrote:

Thanks for some great info. I have saved the links too and will have a look later.

"Peter Smithson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I've not posted here before but it looks like a well established group so
I'm hoping I can get some help.

I've managed to avoid DIY most of my life but I can put a fence post in and
replace a panel. I know how to use a saw and a drill and I can put up
shelves. That's about it. So please use "baby talk" with me!

------------------------
If this is the case, you don't really want to be tackling something this big
on your own
-----------------------



This video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOlCF-O-Ny4 has inspired me to
try and build a lean-to over the patio that is going to be laid for me next
week. I've also got some text instructions on how this thing is made -
http://www.ehow.com/how_5011455_build-leanto-roof.html. So that's what I'm
talking about.

My questions are related to the size of it. In the text instructions it
talks about placing the supporting posts 8ft (2.4m) from the house. But my
plan involves putting the posts in the ground outside of the area of the
patio and the patio is going to end about 4m from the house.

Will I be able to get joists that are over 4m easily? Most things in B&Q
seem to go up to about 3m.
---------------------
The longer the joists, the bigger they will need to be otherwise they will
sag, they'll probably sag anyway.
Also, the further out from the house you go, the higher the roof needs to be
as you've got to keep it at a certain angle, obviously upstairs windows will
dictate how far out you can go.

-----------------------------

Will they be strong enough to support a persons weight when they are that
long? I guess that depends on how far apart I put them.

Would a better option be to make the lean-to smaller than the patio?
-----------------------

Yes, make it smaller, 4 - 5m is way too big and you'll need steel if you do.
If you take it 3m out, you can do it easily with timber.

-----------------------
Bonus question - I liked the idea shown near the start of the youtube video
where the post is held above the concrete to keep it try and also, you could
replace the wood later without digging up the concrete. Is this a common
idea? Is there something pre-made that I could use instead?

Any other tips welcome on things like rake of the roof and what might be
best to make the roof out of (polycarbonate transparent sheets or
transparent corrugated sheets) and what size sheets. I'm also thinking that
some access to the gutters afterwards would be nice so perhaps some extra
bit of wood running the length of it that might somehow support a ladder.
----------------------

Whatever you decide to cover the roof with will need to be able to withstand
someone walking on it, so corrugated is out.
Bear in mind that it will be green with algy in short time so will need
cleaning and putting a ladder on it will be risky

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 16:00:47 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:

------------------------
If this is the case, you don't really want to be tackling something this big
on your own
-----------------------

Oh - I suppose the experts make it look easy! At least I have plenty of time and perhaps can call on a friend. It would be great if I could do it as it's very satisfying on the rare occasions that I have done something myself.

Yes, make it smaller, 4 - 5m is way too big and you'll need steel if you do.
If you take it 3m out, you can do it easily with timber.

Hmmm - some other posts mentioned steel too. I've gone and bought some support posts but B&Q have some sort of return deal (Dam - where did I put that receipt!). Or perhaps I'll get a smaller patio made. I think it would look odd having the patio out to 4m and the lean-to out to 3m.

I'll have a think.

Thanks.

Peter Smithson wrote
Phil L wrote

If this is the case, you don't really want to be tackling something this
big on your own

I don't agree with that.

Oh - I suppose the experts make it look easy!

It is one of the easier major diy projects.

At least I have plenty of time and perhaps can call on a friend.

I doubt you'll need that except maybe for lifting the beams.

I built my whole house from scratch on a base block
of land and did that roof structure by myself fine.

It would be great if I could do it as it's very satisfying on
the rare occasions that I have done something myself.

Yeah, it leaves making stuff like coffee tables and shelves for dead.

Yes, make it smaller, 4 - 5m is way too big and you'll need steel
if you do. If you take it 3m out, you can do it easily with timber.

Hmmm - some other posts mentioned steel too. I've gone
and bought some support posts but B&Q have some sort
of return deal (Dam - where did I put that receipt!).

Yeah, its better not to buy stuff until you have the design done.

Or perhaps I'll get a smaller patio made.

I wouldn't myself.

I think it would look odd having the patio
out to 4m and the lean-to out to 3m.

True.

I'll have a think.