OT PAT
 

In article ,
says...

Class II is pretty much all inspection and you could write the script
for that on 1/2 side of A4.

Can you sum that up please?

Thanks in advance.

OT PAT
 

On Saturday, 1 August 2015 06:35:51 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:06:58 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/07/15 13:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 July 2015 09:10:58 UTC+1, Brian-Gaff wrote:
I was just thinking that. I do not know the machine you mention,
but some of the dodgy electricians at the council seem to manage
with a kind of hand held device for this sort of thing. it leads
them along a bit like going around an art gallery. Brian

Isn;t it realy just a cover up, what happens if an item is passed and
then it kills or injures someone ? As I've said we have PAT testing
done here by an outside company. They've passed an extention lead I'd
fail because the outer sheath didn't go as far as the cord grip and
the individual live earth adn nuteral wires could be seen.

Then they are incompetent - that is a definite fail (or repair and pass
if the job was being done by an in house and helpful chap!)

That's what I thought, but so what if someone
did die or have an accident from using it. It's been
electrically tested and was 'fine' a pass sticker was on
it, so who'd be blamed or would it just be an accident.

Depends on what the cause of the death or accident was.

No **** sherlock. But I'd though it would be obviousy that we're refering to death by electrocution and not old age or drowining.


Clearly anything can fail after the test has been done

but it could have failed before the actual PAT 'test' was done couldn't it.



We could then employ a few admin people to email others
to tell them what should have been done and how to do it
properly and then we could write a report on how we can
learn from 'our' mistakes, but who made the mistake ?
would be my point.

Makes no difference whether the test is done internally or externally with
that.

yes it does when it comes down to who is liable or to blame.

OT PAT
 

On Saturday, 1 August 2015 07:11:44 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what the point of the PAT test
would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most stupid users wouldn't notice was
a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.
Try thinking about this as the unit itself doesn't put a sticker on a faulty device that's up to the human, and if he puts a PASS sticker it has passed if he puts a fail its failed. The sticker on it is teh indicator not the results of the PAT test which I never see.



Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

OT PAT
 

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 09:41:39 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
whisky-dave wrote:

in my lab if there's no label on the plug it means the equipment is
new this year so doesn;t need testing

Or someone's peeled the sticker off while they were bored ...

or it just fell off.
That is one reason why I wanted the list of everything that has been tested, for my own curiosity of how much stuff has been checked and to check it off against my stock list, then iof I found the label I could stick it back on.

OT PAT
 

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 21:16:32 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:
In message ,
whisky-dave writes
On Friday, 31 July 2015 11:55:48 UTC+1, charles wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:

[Snip]

in my lab if there's no label on the plug it means the equipment is
new this year so doesn;t need testing


I've bought new equipment which has failed a basic " Is there
continuity between plug and case" test.

One reason we don;t buy from ebay, what was this test that needed
continuity between teh plug and the case ?

This was not from Ebay, but from a respected trader.

Well as of yet our respeced traders haven't caused us this sort of problem.
Whereas we've heard of such things on ebay.

OT PAT
 

On 03/08/15 10:39, Mark wrote:
In article ,
says...

Class II is pretty much all inspection and you could write the script
for that on 1/2 side of A4.

Can you sum that up please?

Thanks in advance.


This will do it better:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PAT-Applianc...ds=pat+testing

Or this guide:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc....eXY&cad= rja

Basically - determine if Class II, look at leads, appliance, plug and
take plug apart and see if fuse is the correct rating and kitemarked.

If it's Class II but has exposed metalwork, you could do an insulation
test between L+N and the metalwork.

Class I you would do the insulation test between L+N and E and also an
earth continuity test between E and exposed metal parts.

90% of the process (apart from recording) is visual inspection and
taking into account the environment, users and the type of equipment.

OT PAT
 

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 1 August 2015 06:35:51 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 29 July 2015 15:06:58 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/07/15 13:55, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 29 July 2015 09:10:58 UTC+1, Brian-Gaff wrote:
I was just thinking that. I do not know the machine you mention,
but some of the dodgy electricians at the council seem to manage
with a kind of hand held device for this sort of thing. it leads
them along a bit like going around an art gallery. Brian

Isn;t it realy just a cover up, what happens if an item is passed
and
then it kills or injures someone ? As I've said we have PAT testing
done here by an outside company. They've passed an extention lead
I'd
fail because the outer sheath didn't go as far as the cord grip and
the individual live earth adn nuteral wires could be seen.

Then they are incompetent - that is a definite fail (or repair and
pass
if the job was being done by an in house and helpful chap!)

That's what I thought, but so what if someone
did die or have an accident from using it. It's been
electrically tested and was 'fine' a pass sticker was on
it, so who'd be blamed or would it just be an accident.

Depends on what the cause of the death or accident was.

No **** sherlock. But I'd though it would be obviousy that we're refering
to death by electrocution and not old age or drowining.

I meant what the cause of the electrocution was, stupid.

If it was because the stupid user managed to drill thru an
electrical cable when trying to put a hole in something
they didn't realise had an electrical cable in it, that can
not have been the result of a lousy PAT test.

Clearly anything can fail after the test has been done

but it could have failed before the
actual PAT 'test' was done couldn't it.

And if it had done, the PAT should have found that.

Clearly if the electrocution was due to a badly worn
cable that had clearly been that way for a long time,
the reason for that electrocution would be been
because the PAT tester ****ed up.

Its more complicated with an electrocution like the one
I almost managed my self, one of those portable lights
with a PAR bulb stopped working when I was pointing
the block work when building my house, in the dark, I
assumed it was just another failed bulb. Those bulbs
don't last all that long when moved around with the
light on, so just ran my hand down the cord to get
to the light on the end to change the bulb, again.
Turned out that the problem was that the cord had
pulled out of the body of the light itself and I ended up
with the powered bare wires in my hand when I did that.
In the days before RCDs. That could have been a bad
PAT test because the cord anchorage was clearly
inadequate, or it could have been because I had
managed to say drop a block on the flex that was
hanging down and that put more force on the cord
anchorage than it was ever designed to be able to
resist and it was my fault, not the PAT test

We could then employ a few admin people to email others
to tell them what should have been done and how to do it
properly and then we could write a report on how we can
learn from 'our' mistakes, but who made the mistake ?
would be my point.

Makes no difference whether the test
is done internally or externally with that.

yes it does when it comes down to who is liable or to blame.

Nope, you are still legally liable for the PAT test not having
been don't by someone who knew how to do that properly.

No different to not using a viable employee to do the test.

OT PAT
 

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

Try thinking about this

Nothing to think about.

as the unit itself doesn't put a sticker on a faulty device that's
up to the human, and if he puts a PASS sticker it has passed
if he puts a fail its failed. The sticker on it is teh indicator
not the results of the PAT test which I never see.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

OT PAT
 

On Monday, 3 August 2015 20:14:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

Nope, the PAT tester says fail on every healthy class 2 device.


NT

OT PAT
 

On Monday, 3 August 2015 20:14:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

No it tells them to put a faulty sticker on it rather than a passed sticker, stupid. You can't replace it, you repair it or scrap it, stupid.




Try thinking about this

Nothing to think about.

which is why you don't understand.



as the unit itself doesn't put a sticker on a faulty device that's
up to the human, and if he puts a PASS sticker it has passed
if he puts a fail its failed. The sticker on it is teh indicator
not the results of the PAT test which I never see.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

So why do a lead with the colours of the conductors on show fail thenn ?
Why did the 24V soldering iron fail.



Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

Whose are these fools that want H&S ?

OT PAT
 

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 3 August 2015 20:14:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

No it tells them to put a faulty sticker on it rather than a passed
sticker, stupid. You can't replace it, you repair it or scrap it, stupid.

Scrapping it sees it replaced, ****wit.

Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

Whose are these fools that want H&S ?

Whoever produced that stupid **** you fools ended up with, stupid.

OT PAT
 

On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 11:29:34 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 3 August 2015 20:14:45 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

No it tells them to put a faulty sticker on it rather than a passed
sticker, stupid. You can't replace it, you repair it or scrap it, stupid.

Scrapping it sees it replaced, ****wit.

No it doesn't ****wit. When I scrap an item, a new one doesn't magically appear out of thin air. The specs of any equipment that needs to be purchased are discussed as to what is needed what we can afford and how many, hopefully we improve on what we had. The electrical PAT testers have no say in this at all, all they can do is put a sticker on it.




Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

Whose are these fools that want H&S ?

Whoever produced that stupid **** you fools ended up with, stupid.

That's why are asked who they are as I don;t know.
And as usual you know less thean me, there's a suprise.
But then again I don't think anyone knows less than you.

OT PAT
 

whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

No it tells them to put a faulty sticker on it rather than a passed
sticker, stupid. You can't replace it, you repair it or scrap it,
stupid.

Scrapping it sees it replaced, ****wit.

No it doesn't ****wit. When I scrap an item, a
new one doesn't magically appear out of thin air.

Even terminal ****wits such as yourself can usually work
out that the replacement is obtained in the same way
the original was, if someone is actually stupid enough
to lend them a seeing eye dog and a white cane.

The specs of any equipment that needs to be purchased
are discussed as to what is needed what we can afford
and how many, hopefully we improve on what we had.

Only a terminal ****wit such as yourself would do
that with a power cord that has just been failed.

The electrical PAT testers have no say in this
at all, all they can do is put a sticker on it.

They can shove it up your arse too.

Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

Whose are these fools that want H&S ?

Whoever produced that stupid **** you fools ended up with, stupid.

That's why are asked who they are as I don;t know.

Your problem, as always.

OT PAT
 

On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 21:02:30 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote
Rod Speed wrote
whisky-dave wrote

Yep I know, which is why I was wondering what
the point of the PAT test would be in such a case.

It finds some defective stuff that the most
stupid users wouldn't notice was a problem.

and what does it do when it finds such stuff, apart from
the Unit giving a buzz or bleep to indicate it hasn't passed.

That tells even someone as stupid as you that that device
should not be used until it is repaired or replaced, stupid.

No it tells them to put a faulty sticker on it rather than a passed
sticker, stupid. You can't replace it, you repair it or scrap it,
stupid.

Scrapping it sees it replaced, ****wit.

No it doesn't ****wit. When I scrap an item, a
new one doesn't magically appear out of thin air.

Even terminal ****wits such as yourself can usually work
out that the replacement is obtained in the same way
the original was,

not in every case it isn;t.
This year we are replacing 23 of these
http://www.rapidonline.com/Tools-Equ...rainer-34-0942

with these.
http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/207010

Differnt system entirely.


if someone is actually stupid enough
to lend them a seeing eye dog and a white cane.

That's what people tend to use when blind what would you suggest a blind dog and a black cane ?

Personally I'm hoping an app can be made that could do away with such 20th century ideas.

The specs of any equipment that needs to be purchased
are discussed as to what is needed what we can afford
and how many, hopefully we improve on what we had.

Only a terminal ****wit such as yourself would do
that with a power cord that has just been failed.

Why, this si the reason we brought 20 short IEC, because the ones suplied were 1.8 metres we can use them for something else.


The electrical PAT testers have no say in this
at all, all they can do is put a sticker on it.

They can shove it up your arse too.

No they can't as they work from about midnight onward. Haven't seen them for two years, previously they used to do it just before xmas break when the studetns were off and they'd start about 3pm.


Not that I think PAT testing makes any sense at all.

So why is it done ?

Because you fools were stupid enough to go that route.

Whose are these fools that want H&S ?

Whoever produced that stupid **** you fools ended up with, stupid.

That's why are asked who they are as I don;t know.

Your problem, as always.

Not my problem, as I say (to managment) they can come and electrically test when they want and as often as they want why should I care ?
Who ever makes teh rules on H&S has decided that EVERY piece of electrical Why should I care if they test a cable or equipment that isn't used and/or won't be used.

Again not my problem, all I have to do is make sure equipment isn't hidden from the testers and/or not tested that should be tested.
Typically every year I get 1-3 items that fail out of 3,000-4000.
This year it was just one IEC lead that looked a bit scuffed and had a slight melt in it, so I just cut both ends off and threw it out. I've got over 100 in stock, and with 11 more with our irons it's no big deal.

if I'd attempted to repair the lead it would need re-testing at ~£1.49 and the testers aren;t due back until jan. 2016 anyway.