I bought a B&Q PPPro belt sander about 10 years[0] ago on a bit of a
whim to try and scrape old cruddy paint off walls. Didn't work terribly
well and since then its languished in the tool box.

Dug it out again yesterday as I've been trying to get into a bit of
woodwork, inspired by Mr Rumm of this parish[1]. I'd (rather
labouriously) thinned some 38mm down to 28mm with the router[2] and
remembered the belt sander which finished it all off an absolute treat.
I became an instant convert and finally realised how people actually get
wood that's nice to touch instead of being a sharp cornered collection
of splinters.

Now, on the very last corner out comes the magic smoke. Bugger. Runs
slowly and gets hot - looks like some windings are melting together.

So I think I ought to replace it. I've got a bit more I'd like to use it
for but it could end up another 10 years before it comes out again. The
reviews of cheap ones say they go phut in short order, second hand ones
on eBay are out of the ark[3] and good ones are pricey. Bosch Green
suddenly looks cheap & nasty compared to what it used to be and,
overall, there's not a lot of choice.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital
sander be a better bet? Or do I hope for the best with a cheapy? Or is
there a magic mid-priced one that I might actually feel like springing for?



[0] I notice the current Clarke BS1 is *identical*

[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

[3] B&D's "Made in W Germany", Makita with 1997 on the rating plate, etc.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 23/06/2015 13:14, Scott M wrote:

I bought a B&Q PPPro belt sander about 10 years[0] ago on a bit of a
whim to try and scrape old cruddy paint off walls. Didn't work terribly
well and since then its languished in the tool box.

Dug it out again yesterday as I've been trying to get into a bit of
woodwork, inspired by Mr Rumm of this parish[1]. I'd (rather
labouriously) thinned some 38mm down to 28mm with the router[2] and
remembered the belt sander which finished it all off an absolute treat.
I became an instant convert and finally realised how people actually get
wood that's nice to touch instead of being a sharp cornered collection
of splinters.

Now, on the very last corner out comes the magic smoke. Bugger. Runs
slowly and gets hot - looks like some windings are melting together.

So I think I ought to replace it. I've got a bit more I'd like to use it
for but it could end up another 10 years before it comes out again. The
reviews of cheap ones say they go phut in short order, second hand ones
on eBay are out of the ark[3] and good ones are pricey. Bosch Green
suddenly looks cheap & nasty compared to what it used to be and,
overall, there's not a lot of choice.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital
sander be a better bet? Or do I hope for the best with a cheapy? Or is
there a magic mid-priced one that I might actually feel like springing for?



[0] I notice the current Clarke BS1 is *identical*

[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

[3] B&D's "Made in W Germany", Makita with 1997 on the rating plate, etc.


I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how
it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but
others here seem to think highly of them.

In article ,
GMM wrote:
I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how
it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but
others here seem to think highly of them.

Belt sander is great for quick rough work. Takes some skill to get
reasonably accurate results, though - so not much different from most
tools.

Lidl usually offer a 3 year money back warranty (if you have the original
store receipt) I've got lots of Lidl tools, but never needed this.

I'm not saying they are as good as Makita, just they are exceptional value
for money.

But my belt sander is a Bosch. ;-)

--
*England has no kidney bank, but it does have a Liverpool.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 23/06/2015 14:57, GMM wrote:
On 23/06/2015 13:14, Scott M wrote:

I bought a B&Q PPPro belt sander about 10 years[0] ago on a bit of a
whim to try and scrape old cruddy paint off walls. Didn't work terribly
well and since then its languished in the tool box.

Dug it out again yesterday as I've been trying to get into a bit of
woodwork, inspired by Mr Rumm of this parish[1]. I'd (rather
labouriously) thinned some 38mm down to 28mm with the router[2] and
remembered the belt sander which finished it all off an absolute treat.
I became an instant convert and finally realised how people actually get
wood that's nice to touch instead of being a sharp cornered collection
of splinters.

Now, on the very last corner out comes the magic smoke. Bugger. Runs
slowly and gets hot - looks like some windings are melting together.

So I think I ought to replace it. I've got a bit more I'd like to use it
for but it could end up another 10 years before it comes out again. The
reviews of cheap ones say they go phut in short order, second hand ones
on eBay are out of the ark[3] and good ones are pricey. Bosch Green
suddenly looks cheap & nasty compared to what it used to be and,
overall, there's not a lot of choice.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital
sander be a better bet? Or do I hope for the best with a cheapy? Or is
there a magic mid-priced one that I might actually feel like springing
for?



[0] I notice the current Clarke BS1 is *identical*

[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

[3] B&D's "Made in W Germany", Makita with 1997 on the rating plate, etc.


I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how
it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but
others here seem to think highly of them.

When you say that "Lidl have them from 29 June" you presumably mean
random orbital rather than belt sanders - since they don't appear to be
offering the latter, although they do have the belts for them.

FWIW, I've had a Lidl (Parkside?) belt sander for quite a few years. It
only gets used intermittently - but it's been reliable and is very good
for the things it's good it. I use it mainly with the supplied bench
stand, so that I bring the workpiece to the belt rather than the other
way round. I find that easier than hand-holding the machine - but
sometimes have to when sanding large items such as doors.

I don't know when Lidl will next offer a belt sander (or, indeed,
whether their recent offerings are the same model as mine) but it would
be worth considering if you can wait until they next come around.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Belt sander is great for quick rough work. Takes some skill to get
reasonably accurate results, though - so not much different from most
tools.

For some reason I find I can get better results with the more heavy duty
tools than the "delicate" ones. Like NZ Matt (where'd he go?) and his
angle grinder. After I'd finished doing my 8' boards with the belt
sander I has a rather good flat surface. I suspect if I'd tried it with
my long-lost orbital sander I'd have ended up with a mess.


I'm not saying they are as good as Makita, just they are exceptional value
for money.

The cheapy Makita belt sander (£70 ish) I found gets quite poor reviews
which makes me think....


But my belt sander is a Bosch. ;-)

.... that I may end up with a Bosch belter notwithstanding what I said
about Green Bosch earlier!

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

GMM wrote:

I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how
it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but
others here seem to think highly of them.

Well spotted that man. At that price I think I'll pick up a ROS. My
orbital sander (part of a 2 pack with the belt sander) has long
disappeared; I presume it broke and got slung.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Roger Mills wrote:

I don't know when Lidl will next offer a belt sander (or, indeed,
whether their recent offerings are the same model as mine) but it would
be worth considering if you can wait until they next come around.

I've half a mind Aldi had the belt sander a little while ago. Grrrrr, if
only I'd known, etc, etc!

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

In article ,
Scott M wrote:
GMM wrote:

I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for
less than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and
see how it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl
tools but others here seem to think highly of them.

Well spotted that man. At that price I think I'll pick up a ROS. My
orbital sander (part of a 2 pack with the belt sander) has long
disappeared; I presume it broke and got slung.

They're really different tools IMHO. A random orbit sander will give a
nice finish on something already to size. A belt sander can be used to
ease a sticking door - a bit more like a plane.

--
*Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Scott M wrote:

Well spotted that man. At that price I think I'll pick up a ROS. My
orbital sander (part of a 2 pack with the belt sander) has long
disappeared; I presume it broke and got slung.

They're really different tools IMHO. A random orbit sander will give a
nice finish on something already to size. A belt sander can be used to
ease a sticking door - a bit more like a plane.

Yes, I was just thinking that, at that price, it's justifiable for the
rare bit of light sanding I do. Although with the quality of my
woodworking, I suspect I need the belt sander more than I realise!

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 23/06/2015 18:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


They're really different tools IMHO. A random orbit sander will give a
nice finish on something already to size. A belt sander can be used to
ease a sticking door - a bit more like a plane.


.. . or to strip a painted surface back to bare wood.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 23/06/2015 13:14, Scott M wrote:

I bought a B&Q PPPro belt sander about 10 years[0] ago on a bit of a
whim to try and scrape old cruddy paint off walls. Didn't work terribly
well and since then its languished in the tool box.

My first belt sander was a cheap one (Ferm IIRC) - it was a waste of
space - crude, slow, heavy, massive - and did not last long before the
plastic frame warped enough that you could not get a belt to track
properly.

I replaced it with a second hand Makita 9911 like:

Makita 9911 belt sander 240v http://r.ebay.com/92pD6l

and I absolutely love it. Smooth, quiet, quite compact (3" rather than
4" belt), plenty of power and astonishingly good dust collection (you
can see it collecting not only its own dust, but practically vacuuming
any stuff laying around in close proximity at the same time!)

Dug it out again yesterday as I've been trying to get into a bit of
woodwork, inspired by Mr Rumm of this parish[1]. I'd (rather

Oops, all my fault I suppose ;-)

labouriously) thinned some 38mm down to 28mm with the router[2] and
remembered the belt sander which finished it all off an absolute treat.
I became an instant convert and finally realised how people actually get
wood that's nice to touch instead of being a sharp cornered collection
of splinters.

Now, on the very last corner out comes the magic smoke. Bugger. Runs
slowly and gets hot - looks like some windings are melting together.

So I think I ought to replace it. I've got a bit more I'd like to use it
for but it could end up another 10 years before it comes out again. The
reviews of cheap ones say they go phut in short order, second hand ones
on eBay are out of the ark[3] and good ones are pricey. Bosch Green
suddenly looks cheap & nasty compared to what it used to be and,
overall, there's not a lot of choice.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital

You also want massive air flow through it for both cooling and dust
collection.

sander be a better bet? Or do I hope for the best with a cheapy? Or is
there a magic mid-priced one that I might actually feel like springing for?

A ROS is a kind of different beast IMHO. I suppose if you were only
going to have one sander, then that would be the one to go for.

[0] I notice the current Clarke BS1 is *identical*

[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

Well, make some crap things to start with. Watch some woodworking videos
on youtube, and then practice - it gets easier to make something that
you don't end up feeling too bad about in the end!


[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

I Love routers... I think I have four or five of them now ;-)


[3] B&D's "Made in W Germany", Makita with 1997 on the rating plate, etc.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/06/2015 15:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
GMM wrote:
I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see how
it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl tools but
others here seem to think highly of them.

Belt sander is great for quick rough work. Takes some skill to get
reasonably accurate results, though - so not much different from most
tools.

I think belt sanders seem to get a bum rap as being difficult to use...
I am not sure if this is down to some poor tools out there, or non
conventional use, but I find mine to be very usable.

The only technique to master is:

Don't force it - the weight of the machine is enough. Keep it flat -
don't let the nose or tail roller take any of the weight. Keep it moving
about. Work down through the grits[1], and do your final sand with the
grain if possible.

I did most of the primary finishing with my belt sander on :

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?..._Limbert_style

and

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Chess_Board

I find it really good for getting joint edges level after a glue up.


[1] i.e. Starting coarse and going down through the grits. I *thought* I
understood this for years, but only relatively recently realised that I
did not really!

I used to think that if starting with wood that was already planed
smooth, I would could miss out the first stage with a coarse grit, and
jump straight in at (say) 120.

This it turns out is a *big* mistake. Yes its already nearly smooth, yes
the finer grit will make it feel smoother. However it will never look
properly flat! You will also then come across a panel joint or similar
where there is a tiny mismatch, and so will concentrate on that a bit
with the finer grit. You will get it level, in the end, but only when
its got finish on it, will you see that you have dished the surface in
the mismatched area trying to get the step out! (DAMHIK)

So, don't be afraid to get in there are be brutal with 40 or 60 grit -
sand the whole thing flat. Even if that does mean it will get rougher
before it gets smoother. Do all the primary stages (you can skip some
intermediate ones) - say start with 40 or 60, then 80, then 120, then
220 or 240 then finer if you need to. Each stage gets quicker - its the
first one that does all the work, the remainder is just polishing off
the scratch pattern left by the last.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 23/06/2015 18:30, Scott M wrote:
GMM wrote:

I dn't know the 'right' answer (assuming there is one!) but I've never
had much joy trying to master my belt sander while the random orbital
seems to function well. I notice Lidl have them from 29 June for less
than 20 quid, so it wouldn't be a big investment to try one and see
how it works out for you. I've no idea about the quality of Lidl
tools but others here seem to think highly of them.

Well spotted that man. At that price I think I'll pick up a ROS. My
orbital sander (part of a 2 pack with the belt sander) has long
disappeared; I presume it broke and got slung.

I used to look at the silly money you can pay for a sander and think
"who in their right mind?" etc. Now, having used lots, and done lots of
sanding, I begin to understand "who" and why (and now lust after ever
better sanders!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

I replaced it with a second hand Makita 9911 like:
and I absolutely love it. Smooth, quiet, quite compact (3" rather than
4" belt), plenty of power and astonishingly good dust collection (you
can see it collecting not only its own dust, but practically vacuuming
any stuff laying around in close proximity at the same time!)

Funnily enough, it was the latest incarnation of the 9911 that gets a
few poor reviews on Amazon. I'll keep an eye out for a pre-recession one.


I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital

You also want massive air flow through it for both cooling and dust
collection.

The fins on the PPPro fan were rather weedy and not aerodynamically
designed at all. As are most power tool fans IME but most generally run
the fan faster so I suppose that explains the poor life of belt sanders.


[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

Well, make some crap things to start with. Watch some woodworking videos
on youtube, and then practice - it gets easier to make something that
you don't end up feeling too bad about in the end!

I've been watching many YouTube router-y videos, mostly American whose
generously sized workshops makes me want to throw things at the screen.
That and reading some ruddy wiki where impressive things are easily
knocked up with the right tools in 6 colour plates has put me on the
slippery slope :-)


[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

I Love routers... I think I have four or five of them now ;-)

I've only got a little Bosch 1/4" (also about 10YO) and after occasional
attempts to burn up wood and ruin cheapy cutters I think I've got the
hang of it. Worse, I keep eyeing up 1/2" ones.....

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 24/06/2015 10:42, Scott M wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

I replaced it with a second hand Makita 9911 like: and I absolutely
love it. Smooth, quiet, quite compact (3" rather than 4" belt), plenty
of power and astonishingly good dust collection (you can see it
collecting not only its own dust, but practically vacuuming any stuff
laying around in close proximity at the same time!)

Funnily enough, it was the latest incarnation of the 9911 that gets a
few poor reviews on Amazon. I'll keep an eye out for a pre-recession one.

Yea, just had a look at some - quite an odd mix on the set I saw -
average 4 stars, with most users giving it five, but then a handful of 1
star reviews for what sound like complete lemons. Makes you wonder if
some counterfeit stock had made it into the channel somewhere.

I presume the problem is the relatively low speed coupled with a huge
drive requirement to overcome friction so would a (random) orbital

You also want massive air flow through it for both cooling and dust
collection.

The fins on the PPPro fan were rather weedy and not aerodynamically
designed at all. As are most power tool fans IME but most generally run
the fan faster so I suppose that explains the poor life of belt sanders.


[1] whom I shall never forgive; I don't think I'm cut out for anything
that doesn't later get covered in plasterboard.

Well, make some crap things to start with. Watch some woodworking
videos on youtube, and then practice - it gets easier to make
something that you don't end up feeling too bad about in the end!

I've been watching many YouTube router-y videos, mostly American whose
generously sized workshops makes me want to throw things at the screen.

Yup, The Wood Whisperer, and Frank Howarth's, and now the new one built
by The Woodpecker would fall nicely into that category. However there is
very good and informative content out there. However look at some of
Allan's stuff on Ask Woodman and he seems to turn out very professional
results in a far less "ideal" environment.

That and reading some ruddy wiki where impressive things are easily
knocked up with the right tools in 6 colour plates has put me on the
slippery slope :-)


[2] which I bought years ago because you lot raved about routers.
*******s, the lot of you.

I Love routers... I think I have four or five of them now ;-)

I've only got a little Bosch 1/4" (also about 10YO) and after occasional
attempts to burn up wood and ruin cheapy cutters I think I've got the
hang of it. Worse, I keep eyeing up 1/2" ones.....

I use my half inch once least I would say - one exclusively in the table.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 24/06/2015 10:42, Scott M wrote:

I've been watching many YouTube router-y videos, mostly American whose
generously sized workshops makes me want to throw things at the screen.

Yup, The Wood Whisperer, and Frank Howarth's, and now the new one built
by The Woodpecker would fall nicely into that category. However there is
very good and informative content out there. However look at some of
Allan's stuff on Ask Woodman and he seems to turn out very professional
results in a far less "ideal" environment.

Oh, I wasn't dissing the content of any particularly, just that space is
never a problem in America. It shouldn't be here but I think we behave
as if the country's a lot smaller than it is! I shall check out Allan, ta.


I've only got a little Bosch 1/4" (also about 10YO) and after occasional
attempts to burn up wood and ruin cheapy cutters I think I've got the
hang of it. Worse, I keep eyeing up 1/2" ones.....

I use my half inch one least I would say - one exclusively in the table.

Interesting you say that. Having always assumed that there was a big
step change between 1/4" & 1/2" bits, since trying to use mine properly
I was pleasantly surprised to find that there's not much in it. The
rounding off bits I've got seem to be as big as anything 1/2" and do the
job just as well. My 600W doesn't struggle, tho it's only pine of
course. I suspect I might find a bigger footplate more of a pain in some
cases too.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?