Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

On 13/06/15 12:16, stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

Tim Watts wrote:

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

I did that 10'ish years ago (bone graft, implants, crowns and bridges)
all still in good shape, a filling they did at the same time could do
with replacing by a crown - I wish they'd just done that at the time
rather than "save" it ...

On 13/06/15 12:42, Andy Burns wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

I did that 10'ish years ago (bone graft, implants, crowns and bridges)
all still in good shape, a filling they did at the same time could do
with replacing by a crown - I wish they'd just done that at the time
rather than "save" it ...



How was your experience? And how did you find a good dentist over there?

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 15:15:54 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

I did that 10'ish years ago...

How was your experience? And how did you find a good dentist over there?

I needed a dentist in Budapest a couple of years ago - serious toothache,
turned out to be an infected root. We just asked at the campsite, they
pointed us to a clinic in the town centre. Excellent service, far cheaper
than it would have been in the UK privately, and probably not too far
different to NHS price - but the surgery "felt" properly Harley Street.
The dentist was drop-dead _gorgeous_, too...

http://artoral.hu/

Tim Watts wrote:

How was your experience?

Very good, having so much treatment in a few days cured my fear of dentists.

The bone graft and implants were done by Dr Dr Attila Kaman who I
presume owns the place, a second dentist did extraction and root canal
work, a third filed the teeth down to "pegs" for crowns and took
impressions and fitted them all.

They seem to have moved to London from Budapest.

http://www.implantcenter.com/our-team/dentists-oral-surgeons

And how did you find a good dentist over there?

Google! at the time it didn't feel any more random than picking a
dentist out of yellow pages. I discussed it back and forth over email
with them for a few weeks before booking in.

In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2015-06-13, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/15 12:16, stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

And if you have a problem with it, where are you going to go?

My Polish sister-in-law saves up her toothaches for visits back
to her Polish dentist. It's private, but apparently very much
cheaper than here.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 13/06/2015 18:29, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2015-06-13, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/15 12:16, stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

And if you have a problem with it, where are you going to go?

My Polish sister-in-law saves up her toothaches for visits back
to her Polish dentist. It's private, but apparently very much
cheaper than here.


I've just been reading about the Maryland bridge, which seems like an
option given that the teeth either side are pretty good. If the worst
happens I can always glue it back.

On 13/06/2015 19:21, stuart noble wrote:
On 13/06/2015 18:29, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Huge writes:
On 2015-06-13, Tim Watts wrote:
On 13/06/15 12:16, stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known
as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and
bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need"
but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Well, if you fancy a weekend away in Hungary I've heard they do
expensive dentistry for a lot less than here.

And if you have a problem with it, where are you going to go?

My Polish sister-in-law saves up her toothaches for visits back
to her Polish dentist. It's private, but apparently very much
cheaper than here.


I've just been reading about the Maryland bridge, which seems like an
option given that the teeth either side are pretty good. If the worst
happens I can always glue it back.

Well done, back on topic :-)

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

The snag is that most dentists use independant labs to have the actual
crowns made. And they set the price they charge for the work. Which is
usually far higher than the NHS will pay. So the dentist has to do his
side of it at a lower price per hour of work than other things which are
totally under his control.

In some ways it's a pity the individual couldn't simply make up the
difference. That would be much cheaper than going private. But far too
logical for any government.

--
*WHY ARE HEMORRHOIDS CALLED "HEMORRHOIDS" INSTEAD OF "ASTEROIDS"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/06/2015 12:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

The snag is that most dentists use independant labs to have the actual
crowns made. And they set the price they charge for the work. Which is
usually far higher than the NHS will pay. So the dentist has to do his
side of it at a lower price per hour of work than other things which are
totally under his control.

which begs the question, what are these NHS figures based on? Maybe
they're viable in certain areas but not anywhere near London. And if
dentists won't do their side at a reduced cost, why have an NHS contract
at all? I suppose there are times when they can do five minutes work and
shaft you for the band 2 fee.

In some ways it's a pity the individual couldn't simply make up the
difference. That would be much cheaper than going private. But far too
logical for any government.

That would seem to be a sensible option

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:
The snag is that most dentists use independant labs to have the actual
crowns made. And they set the price they charge for the work. Which is
usually far higher than the NHS will pay. So the dentist has to do his
side of it at a lower price per hour of work than other things which
are totally under his control.

which begs the question, what are these NHS figures based on? Maybe
they're viable in certain areas but not anywhere near London. And if
dentists won't do their side at a reduced cost, why have an NHS contract
at all? I suppose there are times when they can do five minutes work and
shaft you for the band 2 fee.

Dunno if the amount the NHS will pay for lab work is weighted according to
the part of the country.

But it's not new - my dentist was a pal and said crowns weren't profitable
for him in London. 40 years ago. ;-)

Sadly, he's retired now. My current NHS one does everything at a million
miles an hour. Not exactly confidence building.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sadly, he's retired now. My current NHS one does everything at a million
miles an hour. Not exactly confidence building.


Yeah, mine too. Lovely looking girl, but when that chair goes backwards
she becomes the teenage psychopath

In article ,
stuart noble wrote:


Sadly, he's retired now. My current NHS one does everything at a
million miles an hour. Not exactly confidence building.


Yeah, mine too. Lovely looking girl, but when that chair goes backwards
she becomes the teenage psychopath

Went to mine to have a fairly old crown glued back on. He didn't wait for
the glue to go off before scraping off the excess. Came off again later.
Charged IIRC £40. He did it again - same thing. Went to a local private
dentist who did it properly, and it's been fine since. But cost 3 times as
much.

--
*That's it! I‘m calling grandma!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Couldn't find anything about crowns and bridges, but
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/nhs-fill...CategoryID=742
says white fillings are available on the NHS for front teeth,
but not for back teeth as that would be purely cosmetic.

Does the front tooth still have a usable root? That can make
a significant difference to treatment options and the actual
cost (although not the NHS charge). A crown on an existing
root would probably be £400-£500.

I asked my dentist what the (private) charge for a bridge was,
as a rough guide for a friend, and he said around £400 per
tooth involved. So for a missing tooth bridged to the ones
either side, £1200 would be typical. However, costs can
vary considerably due to individual differences (and that was
probably 5+ years ago).

Another option if there's no root is to have a titanium socket
inserted if the bone is in good enough condition. If the bone
is not in good enough condition (often the case if there's been
no tooth there for a long time), you might be able to first have
a bone graft done (I knew someone who had this done some years
ago). No idea on the cost of this, but probably quite substantial.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

if there's no root is to have a titanium socket
inserted if the bone is in good enough condition. If the bone
is not in good enough condition (often the case if there's been
no tooth there for a long time), you might be able to first have
a bone graft done (I knew someone who had this done some years
ago).

http://www.adslpipe.co.uk/photos/fangs_xray2.jpg

That was the crowns and bridges before the final bridge was installed
onto the implants to give the bone-graft time to "knit"

No idea on the cost of this, but probably quite substantial.

Just over 1 million Forints, plus some cheap flights and hotels.

On 13/06/2015 13:14, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
stuart noble writes:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service.
They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but
that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth
should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

Couldn't find anything about crowns and bridges, but
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/nhs-fill...CategoryID=742
says white fillings are available on the NHS for front teeth,
but not for back teeth as that would be purely cosmetic.

Does the front tooth still have a usable root? That can make
a significant difference to treatment options and the actual
cost (although not the NHS charge). A crown on an existing
root would probably be £400-£500.

I asked my dentist what the (private) charge for a bridge was,
as a rough guide for a friend, and he said around £400 per
tooth involved. So for a missing tooth bridged to the ones
either side, £1200 would be typical. However, costs can
vary considerably due to individual differences (and that was
probably 5+ years ago).

Another option if there's no root is to have a titanium socket
inserted if the bone is in good enough condition. If the bone
is not in good enough condition (often the case if there's been
no tooth there for a long time), you might be able to first have
a bone graft done (I knew someone who had this done some years
ago). No idea on the cost of this, but probably quite substantial.


Seems you can have an implant done for a grand now, in Harley Street too!

In my case the root has apparently cracked, so the crown can't be
re-cemented. Been there for 44 years so I can't complain!

Can't really see any justification for our dentists being the most
expensive in Europe. You can even fly to Munich and still save a packet

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzw6nRnaQG0

On 13/06/2015 15:16, Phil L wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzw6nRnaQG0



Now you're talking!

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

spoke to my dentist about this and he said Government cut backs were causing
this......that is why he is pushing private work .....

On 13/06/2015 17:55, J1MBO/m wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

spoke to my dentist about this and he said Government cut backs were causing
this......that is why he is pushing private work .....



But nothing explains why our private dentists are the most expensive in
Europe, if not the world. They remind me of gas engineers, who think
they have us over a barrel but who are actually chasing fewer and fewer
jobs.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 13/06/2015 17:55, J1MBO/m wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They
say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that
seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

spoke to my dentist about this and he said Government cut backs were
causing
this......that is why he is pushing private work .....



But nothing explains why our private dentists are the most expensive in
Europe, if not the world. They remind me of gas engineers, who think they
have us over a barrel but who are actually chasing fewer and fewer jobs.

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 13/06/2015 17:55, J1MBO/m wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They
say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that
seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

spoke to my dentist about this and he said Government cut backs were
causing
this......that is why he is pushing private work .....



But nothing explains why our private dentists are the most expensive in
Europe, if not the world. They remind me of gas engineers, who think they
have us over a barrel but who are actually chasing fewer and fewer jobs.

perhaps we should all do diy dentistry...that would sort them out .....

On Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:57:55 +0100, J1MBO/m wrote:

"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
On 13/06/2015 17:55, J1MBO/m wrote:
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as
NHS dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and
bridges but it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide
that service. They say it only covers procedures where there is a
"clinical need" but that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a
missing front tooth should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I
know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

spoke to my dentist about this and he said Government cut backs were
causing this......that is why he is pushing private work .....



But nothing explains why our private dentists are the most expensive in
Europe, if not the world. They remind me of gas engineers, who think
they have us over a barrel but who are actually chasing fewer and fewer
jobs.

perhaps we should all do diy dentistry...that would sort them out .....

http://www.dremeleurope.com/gb/en/

I had a bridge done on NHS with no issues other than the fact the Royal Mail
lost the bloody tooth somewhere between Surrey and SW London for two weeks.

Of course as you say, finding a dentist will ing to do the job for NHS pay
is the most difficult part.
There are also issues over the cost depending on what benefits you get, and
all of that.
I used what is called the Community dentist. Many CCGs fund this as they
can do dentistry in the homes if required, but often have a clinic in a
local doctors or hospital.

Might be worth contacting either Healthwatch in your area, or the CCG
directly.
They can usually supply you with a list of dentists which will do it under
the nhs charges.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"stuart noble" wrote in message
...
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but
it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They
say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that
seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not
be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?
TIA for any input before I'm finally forced to go private?

On 14/06/2015 09:05, Brian-Gaff wrote:
I had a bridge done on NHS with no issues other than the fact the Royal Mail
lost the bloody tooth somewhere between Surrey and SW London for two weeks.

Of course as you say, finding a dentist will ing to do the job for NHS pay
is the most difficult part.
There are also issues over the cost depending on what benefits you get, and
all of that.
I used what is called the Community dentist. Many CCGs fund this as they
can do dentistry in the homes if required, but often have a clinic in a
local doctors or hospital.

Might be worth contacting either Healthwatch in your area, or the CCG
directly.
They can usually supply you with a list of dentists which will do it under
the nhs charges.
Brian


Just received an email from my dentist.

"If a bridge were an appropriate and viable treatment for you and you
fitted the NHS criteria then it would come under a Band 3 NHS charge"

No indication as to what the criteria are of course

Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges but it
seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that service. They say
it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical need" but that seems
like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing front tooth should not be
classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?

Are you in pain?
Can you still eat?

If no to both then its cosmetic!

Mike

On 15/06/2015 09:12, Muddymike wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges
but it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that
service. They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical
need" but that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing
front tooth should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?

Are you in pain?
Can you still eat?

If no to both then its cosmetic!

Mike


Well, they took a tooth out that wasn't hurting, and wasn't stopping me
eating, and that wasn't considered cosmetic

On 15/06/2015 09:12, Muddymike wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges
but it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that
service. They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical
need" but that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing
front tooth should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?

Are you in pain?
Can you still eat?

If no to both then its cosmetic!

Mike


Well, they took a tooth out that wasn't hurting, and wasn't stopping me
eating, and that wasn't considered cosmetic



No, That falls into the category of profiteering :-)

Mike

On 16/06/2015 08:55, Muddymike wrote:
On 15/06/2015 09:12, Muddymike wrote:
Well OT of course but anyone got any opinions on the muddle known as NHS
dentistry? Band 3 (£222.50) is supposed to cover crowns and bridges
but it seems dentists are unable, or unwilling, to provide that
service. They say it only covers procedures where there is a "clinical
need" but that seems like a hell of a grey area. I'd say a missing
front tooth should not be classed as cosmetic, but what do I know?

Are you in pain?
Can you still eat?

If no to both then its cosmetic!

Mike


Well, they took a tooth out that wasn't hurting, and wasn't stopping
me eating, and that wasn't considered cosmetic



No, That falls into the category of profiteering :-)

Mike

I think I now understand what the criterion is. For old folks, the NHS
will do what is the least expensive for them in the long run, which is
invariably a denture. Fair enough I suppose.